George and gunmaker, very mature exchange of posts! Way to go. Others should learn. George, while I did not read every post on this thread I found it quite worthwhile and learned a lot.
Peter.

ForrestB, you should charge fees for these seminars.

Seriously, anyone contemplating plunking down a deposit toward the purchase of a new Dakota rifle owes you thanks for the information you have provided.

It does seem that the ship has been righted only long enough to get a select few of the passengers off. As soon as that happens, it will be scuttled.

This thread will not have to be archived. But as a consumer protection measure, I would be in favor of pinning it to the top until Dakota's demise makes it irrelevant.

Ok everybody,

Think about this: Yet another American firearms manufacturer is in trouble - big trouble. Why? Too many reasons to count.

One thing though continues to astonish me -Why is it that Sig, Blaser, Krieghoff and the rest of the makers from Europe can compete so well here given their tough labor markets, high taxes and importation costs? Odd eh!

This is for sure: Something is wrong with the American gun mfg'rs production, sales and marketing model. Ithaca, Winchester, and now Dakota. There is a lesson to be learned here that we all had better pay attention to - no BS.

I hope they can salvage and keep going.

JW

corporate greed most likely, and the layering concept. Let's say I bought Dakota for $2 million. I set a bunch of my friends on the board of directors, got to have one of those with about ten members, right? Pay them each $10K a year, and hold the annual meeting in Zimbabwe as part of a two week hunt. There goes a quarter million.
Appoint myself CEO with a $100K salary, and introduce five new calibers/model variations and do the field testing in Africa or Alaska every year. There's another $100K.
What is so complicated about that? Of course you have to file bankruptcy every five or six years when the bill collectors begin to hound you...but, hey, that's part of the fun and intrigue figuring out which ones you can stiff and which ones you have to negotiate a reduced repayment program with.
It's a big game to these kinds of people, and as long as they can write a golden parachute for down the road, there is no downside to playing.
Somebody should shoot that fat sob!

Rich
DRSS

Arn't sporting firearms only a small part of Sig, Blaser and Kreighoffs' business.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Ok everybody,

Think about this: Yet another American firearms manufacturer is in trouble - big trouble. Why? Too many reasons to count.

One thing though continues to astonish me -Why is it that Sig, Blaser, Krieghoff and the rest of the makers from Europe can compete so well here given their tough labor markets, high taxes and importation costs? Odd eh!

This is for sure: Something is wrong with the American gun mfg'rs production, sales and marketing model. Ithaca, Winchester, and now Dakota. There is a lesson to be learned here that we all had better pay attention to - no BS.

I hope they can salvage and keep going.

JW

As far as the subject relates to big bores, I would be more interested in hearing whether their craftsmen BC (before Charlie) are still around.

Dakota made some very fine rifles and actions. I believe Saeed even used Dakota actions in his supercharged steroid enhanced 375. If the same folks who made the rifles and actions before are still around, that would give Dakota a shot at coming out of this. If not, who knows.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
gunmaker,

Watch your tone. The chip on your shoulder must be inhibiting the flow of blood to that part of your brain governing judgment.

This is the 'Big Bores' forum, not a general rifle forum...

George

Does AR have a General Rifle forum?

ForrestB, thanks for keeping reality involved in this lengthy discussion.

GeorgeS, thanks for the reasonable moderation.

I can't imagine where this would have gone on the Custom Gunsmithing forum?!?!

SDH

Well Dakota, makes maybe three or four guns a day. They just expanded into a bunch of stuff they should not have done. Ok its all water under the bridge. Lots of companies loose money. I had one Dakota 76 and one # 10 I have sold both of them. For the most part they are over priced, for what you really get. And the market is not that big to begin with, and if you are going to lay out 10 to 15 K for a rifle, there are better ways to go than Dakota. If somebody told me to fix it, the first thing I would do is fire the Managers, and the Sales staff. I would drop the Shotguns and the Double rifle. I would dump the travel company and the childs rifle thing. Then I would go and make the 76 and the # 10. I would offer a basic grade and the semi custom models that they do now, but with out all of the endless options. I would foucus on good no BS Bolt action hunting rifles that you could go and buy with out taking a second morgage. And not have to screw with, other than zeroing in and go shoot something. You can't be all things to all people it just dose not work. Know who your customers are and make the guns they want to buy. The hard part is the rifles themselves, they last for several generations. The only other thing I would do, is that the 76 action would be made avaiable to gunsmiths in the white so they can finish as they see fit, ie what D'Arcy Echol's dose.

Seems like every time I buy a rifle, the gunmaker goes under. Bought a Model 70 .375 last Dec '05. Traded a bunch of safe queens for a 76 in 7mm Rem. in February, '06, which took forever to arrive, but is, so far, an excellent rifle. Was thinking, along with a friend, of buying a 76 Safari in .416 Rigby, but with all that I have read here, this is now unlikely.

I appreciate all the insight from the true pundits and investment types who posted here.