Here's my dilema. There is a possiblity that I'll be chasing buff in the near future. There is also a possiblity that a PAC elephant hunt could be included if all the stars are alinged at the right time. I'm not all that 'tough' when it comes to recoil, nore am I really looking to spend a few thousand on a rifle that will not get used all that much. I have a friend thats a smith and the work will be done for a little of nothing however.

I know I can find a standard mag action for fairly a decent price if I look around, H&H lentgh with a little more money and time too, so I'm not going to limit myslef. I reload and have a few wildcats so nothing is really out the window, but there is that 'correct headstamp' thing that would be nice to addhear to as well.

I have shot a 458 a couple times and find it quite a handfull but shootable. I'm not sure I could handle much more though especially if the chips were down.

I have a 375H&H and that will go along as a back up rifle, and the wife will likely use it for buff if she goes along.

So here's the question... Is a 458 really that much better than a 416 Taylor on elephant what about the 416rem? I really don't think I could handle a Lott, but think I could thread the needle with the Taylor if need be pretty easily. From what I understand the recoil is quite similar to the 375. I shoot my 375 about 2-300 rounds a year and don't have any problem with putting it where it needs to be. So am I really stepping up in 'fire power' by going to the Taylor, or should I step up another rung and hope I can hold onto the thing?

Ivan,

If you can shoot a .375 200-300 times a year, moving up to a .458 will be easy IF you do it intelligently.

Get a stock that fits properly.
Make sure the gun has appropriate mass for the chambering.
Put a good recoil pad on it (Decelerator, F990, Sortbothane, et al.)
Put a low-magnification scope with good eye relief if you prefer scoped rifles (I do).
Start with 75% (of maximum) loads.
Shoot until you get proficient, then move up in 10% increments until you reach the maximum safe pressure in your gun.

George

In addition to what George said, also select a length of pull that is a bit longer than you are used to as it will get you back from the scope, it will help keep the bridge of your nose away from your thumb, and it will reduce felt recoil to an extent.

What? You can't handle the 458 but your wife is blazing away with a 375?

A 375 will kill quite nicely any buff that ever walked. And for a one-time ele hunt, I wouldn't bother buying another rifle, not that 375 is the best choice.

Thanks...

Well the wifes first rifle was a Featherweight 325WSM... yeah I'm a pansy. Personally I don't think my 375 kicks that much. My turkey gun is much more 'violent'.

I suppose I sould find someone with one of the big boys and shoot it some to see if I can handle it. I'm kind of leaning toward a 458WM, 416rem or Taylor. Maybe I'm making it out to be something its not too. Some guys say a 300WM kicks. I just don't want to over gun myself.

I've been thinking of building a Taylor for 3-4 years now, even had half the parts for one and sold the action. I just don't see myself shooting a 458 at anything besides buff or ele, and that likely won't happen more than a few times in my life. With the 416, it would go on quite a few elk hunts as well as to AK for moose.

quote:

Originally posted by Ivan:
I just don't see myself shooting a 458 at anything besides buff or ele, and that likely won't happen more than a few times in my life. With the 416, it would go on quite a few elk hunts as well as to AK for moose.

Ivan,
With the right bullets, say 350gr. Barnes 'X', a .458 could do for Alaska and North America, as well.

George

I will throw my 2 cents in on this one! I have a .416 Taylor built on a Mark X Action with a 22 inch barrel. As I have posted before, It is my favorite HUNTING rifle. It is Powerful yet handy and easy to carry and shoot.

The Taylor will match the ballistics of the vaunted .404 Jeffery, long considered the holy grail of Classic African Cartridges. I use Barnes and Speer 350 gr. bullets loaded to 2,500 ft/sec for all my North American Hunting. For African big 5, the 400 gr. bullets at 2,350 ft/sec. will drop anything that walks this planet.

I sold off a model 70, .458 Win to a maember of this board due to the recoil and ballistics; and used the money to build my Taylor...I have never looked back and love the flatter trajectory and down-range ballistics, plus the very manageable recoil of the .416's.

Well, I know I will get flamed from the Howitzer club, but I shoot my .416's (Taylor and Rigby) more accurately than I did the .458's, and everything I have shot with my .416's has dropped like I hit it with Thor's hammer...probably less to due with the weight and diameter of the .416 and more to do with the fact that I shoot it accurately and the the 350 and 400 grain bullets have enough mass and diameter to be efficent killing projectiles.

Well Thats my thoughts and feelings on the subject!

Hansel

You can get properly headstamped .416taylor brass. It's expensive but you'll only need 40rds for hunting across the pond & can shoot your other brass here. I like the .42 bores, the .458 is just a bit more than I can shoot well from any hunting position.

the 458 winmag is surprisingly comfy to shoot... and the taylor is a joy.

jeffe

from my understanding the no shoulder or small shoulder cases have lesser felt recoil all things being the same

Well, either cartridge will do just fine on any game on the planet, but the choices for 458 ammo and components is much wider than the Taylor. That's pretty much the only thing I can think of to pick one over the other.

As someone else said, you could just use your 375 and be done with it....but then you wouldn't get to buy a new rifle, and where's the fun in that?!

soooooooooooooooo, why not just shell out $800 and buy a CZ550 in 416 Rigby? That rifle would work even better for the other things you mentioned than the Taylor.

One more option....

Rich NRA Life member
DRSS
owns two CZ's in 416 Rigby

Not real interested in the CZ. IMO they look and feel cheaper than "gasp" a Ruger. Don't like the bolt handle, or the safety, but could have them swapped out I suppose, and in the end I'll be into it that much more. I do like the fact that they have a bottomless pit of a magazine though. I'd rather just find a used M70 Classic and screw a new barrel on attach sights and go hunting. Slim, trim and what I know.

What will the Rigby do that the Taylor won't? I thought the "go to" loads in the Rigby were around 2400fps for a 400gr bullet, the Taylor will come dang close to that will it not?

As far as using it in NA, I would think that a 300-350gr bullet out of the 416 bore would be supior at longer ranges of say 300-350 yards for elk. Or would it really be any concern vs the 458? I doubt I'll be slinging lead that far out, but if I had to it would be nice to know I could.

Its funny that with all the talk about out dated this and belts are bad that that 2 of the nicest and easiest rounds to make up and hunt BIG game with are little ,, and belted , and work execellently........This same topic was hammered out quite thoroughly on the Alaska forum .. The Taylor is the easiest to shoot of the 3 you mentioned and is just a real nice little round that burnes about 20 or so grains less powder than the Rigby to do basically the same thing a 400 gr bullet at 2350 fps.....Most everyone who has used the 375 and the 416 says the 416 kills faster .....That has been my experience as well......But the 458 is a great round and is just a bit faster than the Taylor all things equal.. But not as long range.....What George wrote about training with it is If you get too long a LOP it makes the rifle uncomfortable to shoot well and cycle the action ....I believe it is the cause of many a short stroked bolt......Which ever ,,,just make sure your rifle is comfortable for you...You want to be real good buddies with your big bore rifle..... IMO gumboot out

Just a bit off the subject .
Has anyone here necked up the 300,340 or 375Weatherby case into 416-300Wby?

If not why?(338WM can be necked up then this case has the potential as well).
If so hows she perform?

Tez, the Weatherby cartridges you mention are all based off the 300/375 H&H case. You could say that the 416 rem is what you are asking about. The only difference is the WTBY double radius shoulder which has no advantage over conventional shoulders. This field has pretty much been covered by dozens of wildcats over the last forty years. If you read P.O. Ackleys books, you'll find there is not much new out there that has not been tried in one form or another.