I received my new Midway catalog a couple days ago and was thumbing through it and noticed that Magtech is making 32 gauge 2.5 inch brass now. Not being all that familiar with 32 gauge I looked it up and it is .526 bore. Most of you guys who know me a little have probably noticed that I like Black Powder(muzzleloaders and cartridge) and I'm kinda into Big Bores. So with the brass on my mind I went digging through my Handloaders manual and was only able to find two 52 caliber cartridges. One was the 52-70 sharps an the other was a metric x 87r. I was thinking that a 52-120(120gr FFg Black Powder is roughly what a 2.5 brass will hold) with a 500-600gr bullet would make a nice rifle.

Yes I know the world really doesn't need another wildcat, but hey what fun would it be if everybody liked vanilla, besides most everything but the barrel is pretty easy to come by. I can either use a .530 mold and swage them down or have a custom mold made. I would probably build the action myself(maybe even a Jones underlever SxS).

52-120: 500 to 600 grain bullet, magtech 2.5" brass. Probably around 1500FPS(maybe a little faster)What do you all think? Any comments, criticism or suggestions welcomed....

Colin

you'll have to register it as a sporting round .. i did the 577/500/550 .. or 550 flanged, a couple years ago .. sounds like fun

Even as a black powder he has to register it?

I live and I learn. Straight walls I guess?

Wouldn't have to register it, if it was built on an antique action or replica of one. Hence the idea of building it as a Jones Underlever.

Colin

I am probaby the wrong guy to speak up, because I dont really have the funds to purchase the quality products you offer. And maybe I am way behind the curve here, but have you already offered some more conventional big bore ctg guns like a 12 or 8 bore black powder ctg guns.

I think there might be some demand for guns in either of these sizes. I think a max loaded 8 can kill anything. I know paper cases available, maybe brass too? It can still be handled (carried and fired) by a determined shooter.

A 12 would be pretty nice, powerful yet an even easier carry for a next step down.

For 500 grain bullets, I own and shoot 45 2 7/8 and that covers that ground pretty well for me.

What is the casehead dimension?

No, gents.. if you make it a rifled barrel, no longer a shotshell, it should be register ...and it takes ONE well written letter.. 52 caliber would be a new greater than .500 bore.. and unless you LIKE the graybar hotel, its worthwile .. REGISTER IT AS A SPORTING ROUND

means of combustion don't mean anything.. .500 bore, gents, it is clear... replica .. unless there was a historical .525 groove rifled barrel, that "test" fails.

its one small letter, and easy to do

Let me get the legal part out of the way first:

quote:

27 CFR " Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a
matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition
system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any
firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica
(1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the
United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary
channels of commercial trade."

It doesn't matter what the cartridge is as long as it is not commercially available, if I trimmed the 32 case back, so that a 32 guage shotshell couldn't be chambered and fired, then there is no commercially available ammo that would fit it, and built on a pre-1898 replica it is an antique, and as such is not possible of being registered. I have a letter stating this from the BATFE tech branch in regard to the 2 Bore jones undelever I am building. So no graybar hotel issues, I will just write another letter with the specifications and action design and get another letter. When in doubt ask the people that will throw you in jail. And along the lines of original 525 rifles I already mentioned the 52-70 Sharps. So bases covered and we can lay that to rest and move onto the more important parts like it's my fantasy and I just want to talk about the pro's and con's of my idea.

Fourbore - I don't advertise it but yes I have been contacted about building smaller "Bore" rifles, and with a few exceptions about available ammo and complying with the law, I have been willing to build pretty much any caliber a person wants. Just haven't had anybody throwing money at me.

In this particular case though I wasn't actually thinking about this cartridge as an offering from my shop, but was more interested in a personal rifle for myself. I was just interested in what all the big bore enthusiasts on here thought of the idea. Quite a few guys here have a lot of experience with developing their own big bores(wildcats and such) and was just looking for input from those with more experience than myself.

boom stick - I'm not sure what the Case head is, I'll have to look it up.

Please keep the questions and comments coming, it will help me roll the idea around. Maybe if I actually decide it is worth doing and I like the way the rifles turns out. It may eventually become something I would offer to customers, but for now it is just a theoretical exercise to help me see anything that I might not have noticed. Hell for all I know someone out there has already done it and decided it was total garbage, or it was the greatest thing to ever come along but the advent of smokeless powders made it obsolete or some other thing I don't know, so hopefully somebody with more knowledge or more experience or a better collection of books than me can help educate me and roll the idea around for a while.

Colin

The reason for me asking was to figure out if there is another case to make the cases from to get higher pressures if desired, cheaper or longer.

Weatherby or Rigby or 500 NE cases for example.

I guess there is also the sharps 2 1/2 big 50 with brass and components available. Almost identical case and bore size. Not having one, I did not thing about it right away.

Maybe a 20 or 28 would be an opportunity fill a BP ctg nitch?

Underlever sounds pretty cool.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The reason for me asking was to figure out if there is another case to make the cases from to get higher pressures if desired, cheaper or longer.

Weatherby or Rigby or 500 NE cases for example.

I had a look in the only shotshell reloading manual I have and it didn't even list the 32 gauge, so I tried searching the internet for a little while and came up empty on finding the case dimensions. Anybody happen to know what the specs are on a 32 gauge 2.5" shotshell?

Colin

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I guess there is also the sharps 2 1/2 big 50 with brass and components available. Almost identical case and bore size. Not having one, I did not thing about it right away.

Maybe a 20 or 28 would be an opportunity fill a BP ctg nitch?

Underlever sounds pretty cool.

I have a 50-90, it is very similar, shoots a 500 grain bullet over 90 grains FFg, fun rifle. 52 probably wouldn't do anything that my 50-90 doesn't already do, other than be slightly bigger in diameter. Hmmm maybe I'm just spinning the gears for no reason, might have to ponder on this idea for a while.

Colin

Dim's taken from a couple of Fiocchi 32ga shells (I show it as a 2 3/4", but could be in error on that)
Loaded length 2.318-2.339
Rim Dia .628-.630
Base Dia .568-.569
Mouth Dia .557

Thank you tailgunner, I appreciate the effort and the fast response. I'll have to go digging through some of my books and see whats out there with similar specs. If there is a better base cartridge this might be a caliber that would be fun to play with in smokeless. Could go either way with it, go to a much heavier bullet for DG or drop down to a much lighter bullet and make a nice express rifle out of it.

Colin

As you likely know, the early Hawken rifles labeled as .54" caliber actually were a .52" and used a .526 patched round ball. They were cut-rifled about .012" deep with a 1:48" twist rate. At least the few surviving originals are.
Thanks for the phone call this afternoon. Always good to catch up on the latest from the Heartland.

regards,

Rich

With these numbers it seems you can take 470 NE cases and make a 3,25" 52 cal case.
Maybe shoot 600 grainers @ 2150

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
Dim's taken from a couple of Fiocchi 32ga shells (I show it as a 2 3/4", but could be in error on that)
Loaded length 2.318-2.339
Rim Dia .628-.630
Base Dia .568-.569
Mouth Dia .557

52 Cal. eh?

Well how about 13.2X95mm
795 gr. bullet
2650 fps velocity
Built by Mauser as a bolt action anti-tank rifle in 1918

It's the only damn 52cal I could find.
This one might be a Tiny little itsy bitsy bit too much.
No I did not say Overkill, no such thing.

John

I've come across a few more 52's in my research. The 56-56 Spencer, 56-46 Spencer are actually a 52 caliber. Spencer named his cartridges based on the case dimension not the caliber, so the 56- is actually the base dimension and the -56 or -46 is the mouth dimension. They were a little anemic though even compared to their contemporaries being produced during the same era. The 56-56 shot a 365gr bullet over 40gr Black Powder, a bit on the under powered side compared to a lot of the other civil war era cartridges.

Colin

There is no such thing as too many Wildcat calibers...