The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Pressure for .404 Loads (can we go over it again please ?)Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Finding inexpensive bullets for practice was my problem too. I was able to get Barnes X bullets at a reasonable price, but I could never get them to group worth a darn. I found out later no one else could get them to group well either. I have shot a moose, eland, and kudu with the Hawks, with good terminal performance. In the great scheme of things, they are probably the cheapest to use for practice, and for plains game. You can use solids for your buffalo. Garrett | |||
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NOT TO KICK A DEAD HORSE, but RIP, do you have any idea what velocity you could launch a 500gr. .475 Bullet out of the .475 Kifaru while keeping the load at or under 55,100 PSI??? Is there any way of projecting the PSI of a load???  "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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p.c. have you thought of barnes new 400 gr tsx bullets for the 404? http://www.barnesbullets.com/prodtsx_new2006.php the north forks and these will be good on preasure  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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SO, can I use the same load with the new 350 gr. .416 TSXs that I used with my beloved 325 gr. Xs?!? (110 gr. RL-22) "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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i'd work up the load and see what happens...there are more experienced opinions than mine but i know the north forks are great on preasure. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Woodie, The max Barnes load with .416/350gr XFB and RL-22 is 108 grains. They say themselves that you can often increase the charge with the TSX of same weight as XFB by one or 2 grains of powder, just like with the XLC's. You should start with 103 grains of RL-22 and work up to 110 grains in 1 grain increments, and I bet it will work fine. .475 Kifaru: My SWAG is that it will get 2500 fps at 40,000 PSI with any 500 grainer. .470 Mbogo or .470 NE (in a Ruger No.1) probably do the same at 50,000 PSI. They have nearly identical case capacities. The reality of .470 NE in double rifles is keeping pressures with all soft and solid loads under 40,000 PSI (not CUP) at 2150 fps with 500 grainers. The .475 Kifaru's reason for existence is, well, JUST BECAUSE! | |||
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"They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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woodsracer, I was just parroting the Barnes legalese. I would do what you are thinking too. Lack Lott claimed 2900 to 3000 fps with 500 grainers in the .475 LTD that was only about 2.85 inches long on a reshaped .577 NE case. The .475 A&M claimed ridiculous numbers close to 3000 fps with the 500 grainers, and it is only a .460 Weatherby necked up. .475 Atkinson & Marquart, loaded by P.O.Ackley with IMR-3031. Maybe for destructive testing of actions they got it to 3000 fps? The .470 Mbogo will do 2700 fps with 500 grainers (I stopped at 2685 fps with RL-15 and Barnes Original bullets, just in load survey with my 25" barrel), over 55Kpsi and under 60Kpsi is my SWAG. Getting near 2700 fps with 500 grainers is where the recoil starts to get my attention. The .470 NE does not need any improvement, as it will do the same thing in a single shot as the .470 Mbogo if the brass holds up. The only advantage of the .475 Kifaru over the .470 Mbogo would be more body taper, gentler shoulder, and longer neck, for easier feeding and extraction and better bullet grip, same magazine capacity in a CZ 550 magnum, and lower pressures from slightly larger case. Of course the .470 Mbogo works fine, so, again, the reason for the .475 Kifaru is "Just Because." I would want to shoot the .475 Kifaru with 500 grainers at 2500 fps and 40KPSI, not 3000 fps at +60KPSI. That is the gentlemanly thing to do. | |||
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I say you should at least TRY IT!!! JUST BECAUSE!!!!!  If you want to load it up to appx. 3000fps with the 500 grainer and need a "test assistant" to fire the cannon while you film, just let me know. I'm always willin' to drive to Clarksville to get my shoulder bruised and my ego destroyed!!! BTW, you wouldn't happen to have a .577 Tyrannasaur in your collection would you?!? I'll try anything, ONCE!!!  "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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woodsracer, I don't have a .577 Tyrannosaur. But I was once a grasshopper seeking enlightenment as you are. I have shot one 42 times, 14 shots on each of 3 weekends that I drove from New London, Connecticut to Long Island, New York to be instructed at the Mitch Carter School of the Big Bore. That was a 3 hour drive each way without the ferry across Long Island Sound. He let me do some load testing with his .577 T. rex, for my benefit educationally, and they were not light loads, but 750 and 900 grainers loaded pretty hot. Mitch is famous for that. I was able to make cloverleaf one-hole-clusters for three shot groups at 100 yards with a scope. However the torque of the rifle was a new experience for me. Also, 14 shots would just start to give me a wee headache. I decided the torque alone is enough to make it unmanageable for quick second shots. I stop at .510 bore. The .505 Gibbs is the biggest case that is smart in a bolt action rifle. Therefore, .505 or .510 bullets are the biggest you can go in a bolt action without getting stupid, because there is just not enough shoulder on the Gibbs case for anything bigger, lest we become stupifying with stunt designing. The enlightenment that comes from the .577 Tyrannosaur will mainly be enlightenment of your wallet if you buy one. Ditto the .585 Nyati, which Ross Seyfried, its creator, called "a nightmare."  | |||
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Rip thats an unfair criticism of the .585 Nyati....................I find it a wonderfully practical round | |||
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PC, Enlightened-Walleted-One: I figure for $$$$ you would gladly package up your .585 Nyati, including kit and kaboodle, and ship it to me. Name the minimum price it would take to pry this from your fingers before they are dead and cold.  Think what you could do with that towards parts and labor on something more sensible of .510 caliber on down. Thanks for noticing my hot ether.  | |||
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woodsracer, "Just Because" as you say, I am sure I will have to exceed 2700 fps with the .475 Kifaru and 500 grainers, then back off to comfort levels somewhere between 2500 and 2700 fps, whatever load is most accurate and comfortable on my end of the rifle. You'd think this grasshopper would be smarter by now, but I am quitting the foolishness after the Hanging Ten for HA!/DOA. .338 Lapua-La Plains Game .375 Chui .416 Rigby .423 Simba .458 Nyati .470 Mbogo .408 Cheyenne Tactical .475 Kifaru .505 Gibbs .510 Tembo  | |||
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You have me thinking RIP...........it would be a .500 J in a magnum mauser action that matched my .404 J. You would like my .585 Nyati as well as it is of "African Sheep Pedigree" fine composite kevlar, stainless barrel. 2.5x compact leupold in Talley QD's qith back up sights being a simple set of Remington iron's.....................what the heck here is a pic What speeds are you getting with the .458 Nyati ??  | |||
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Just call me young and inexperienced!!! I think one round from a .577 Tyrannasaur or a .585 Nyati would give me a quick reality check. I am very interested in the Kifaru however!!! "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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PC, that looks REALLY MEAN!!!  What action is that built on??? Looks kinda like a Weatherby. "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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PC, I dig your style .585 Nyati but uphill prone shots at sheep could "bite."The .458 Nyati in a 22" long stainless McGowen (12" twist) gave me 2443 fps with 500 gr Hornady RNSP, using Lapua brass and 100.0 grains of RL-15. The same load in a 25" long barrel (factory 14" twist re-chambered from .458 WinMag to .458 Nyati, so the long .458 WinMag throat is there still) gave 2483 fps. Excellent load. I imagine a medium .460 Weatherby load like 110 to 115 grains of H4350 Extreme might be as good and about 2500 fps. The TSX 500 grain can be seated out and is no impediment with the Rigby length box. I expect I'll use H4350 Extreme 115 grains and get around 2500 fps. | |||
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I launched 5, yes FIVE, 325gr. Barnes Xs at a 5 point elk three years ago. They were all very carefully aimed, using the CZ's single set trigger, and what we call in Tennessee "Kentucky Elevation." I was prone, resting on a 2ft. diameter fir that had fallen. Unfortunately, I was new to the game and had no rangefinder, and by using the Leupold method with the Duplex......he was further than 600 yards.  Sorry, I couldn't help it. The last day of the hunt and I had yet to discharge the cannon.  NEXT TIME, will be a completely different story!!! "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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That's Kentucky Windage and Tennessee Elevation. | |||
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Woodsracer it is built on a Brno .375 H&H has a 25" stainless Tobler barrel with removeable break which is 3" long, it has a new mag box and can take 3 in the mag and one in the chamber. The stock is a custom composite oin the weatherby style and is reinforced with Kevlar for what it's worth. It has a a large barrel lug as well and 3 mercury recoil reducers in the stock. Even at around 14.5 pounds the recoil is hefty, woodleigh 650 gr Black powder .577 bullets at over 2500 fps make a mess of vermin RIP I thought the .458 Nyati would give 3200 fps with a or there abouts with a 500 gr bullet.....................maybe the 550 gr woodleigh's might be worth a go. When you think about it the .585 nyati is a reasonably efficient round for the case size and the speeds a 750 gr bullet can be driven. | |||
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PC, You are not paying attention to the HA!/DOA nomenclature game.  But I understand, my pets are like children only a mother could love. My ".458 Nyati" is the .45 Lapua, not the .585 Nyati necked down. Ross Seyfried does not have a copyright on the Swahili word does he? How about .458 Nyati-Lapua? We don't need no stinking 3200 fps with .458/500grainers. Your thread has been  | |||
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.....and you'd be the one to know since you live on the LINE!!! "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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I LIKE IT!!! As you might have read, I have two Rigbys: the beautifully stocked RSM and a McMillian'd CZ (the Hogleg SPLIT  ). I think my next project may have a laminated stock. I am kinda partial to Richard's Micro-Fit in the Rosewood Laminate!!! I keep thinking about dropping my el cheapo Ramline on my Whelen, and installing a Rosewood laminate with a 90 degree black tip and cap and a Pachmayr Decelerator. "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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Garrett, drop to VV150 under your 350gr bullets for 2500fps w/ no problems. I have found that .429/44mag bullets can be sized down to .423 w/ adequate accuracy (1.5moa) @ 100yds to be usefull for very cheap practice rounds. I run them around 2400fps, it's a soft shooting practice round. I size them in a Lee bullet sizer; run them through a .427 first & then through a .423 using Imperial sizing wax. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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RIP a .458 round sending a 500 gr at 3200 fps would be great in a heavy barreled rem 700 with badger rings and bases and a MK4 6.5-20x50 mil dot scope........would need a vais break for prone shooting, oh and I will cave in and get a sako extractor put in  I figured you would have let everyone know if you had of necked down the beautiful .585 Nyati case !! Woods I would ver much liike to add a Ruger RSM .416 to my safe if not just for the integral 1/4 rib !! | |||
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I'm tickled to death with mine!!! All I can say is DO IT!!! I have taken the factory rear sight and V'd the line out wider with a die file. Very time consuming, if you do it "nicely" like I try doing everything, but then I added some glow in the dark white paint in the groove for better visability. I think I may try a Fiber Optic font sight while I'm at it. "They who would give up an essential Liberty for Temporary Security, deserves neither Liberty or Security." ---Benjamin Franklin "SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS" | |||
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