I am looking at a couple slightly used 416's made by Empire and Dakota. They are configured in a very similar manner, LOP, weight, barrel length, wood quality...

Question:
Who makes a better big bore bolt rifle, Empire or Dakota??

Choices:
Dakota
Empire

 

Owning one of each, assuming you were talking identical quality wood and accesories, I would have to go with the Empire.

JC

Since Rem purchased Dakota would not going with Empire have more pinache?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Since Rem purchased Dakota would not going with Empire have more pinache?

I would be just the opposite. I think the major brand name adds a lot.

I think that is reflected by the prices for major brand name custom rifles and I think just abut everyone would agree that major brand custom rifles are very over priced.

Same seems to apply to cars. Our GM car in Australia has a division that makes souped up versions. But if you took the basic V8 model and then had it done yourself you would get a lot more car for a lot less money but its resale value is very poor.

Of course if Remington in their wisdom decide the recoil lug should be ground off and replaced by a washer between the barrel and action then all bets are off

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Since Rem purchased Dakota would not going with Empire have more pinache?

The simple fact that you can call George on his cell phone and deal with him directly instead of having to deal with a random customer service rep at Remington should enough resaon alone...

After all...part of the cost of a custom gun, is receiving custom service...something Dakota no longer can offer.

JC

I have both Dakota and Empire rifles. Both are excellent, and of course, in the end it is personal choice.

If possible, handle both before deciding.

I've drug my 450 Dakota through every thorn tree in East Africa over the past 12 years. No problems.

Am leaving next month for 3 weeks in TZ and, for a change, decided to take the Empire Lott. I needed some minor work done on the rifle but needed to be sure I got it back in time. As for service, I could not even get calls returned, much less any guarantee of a delivery date.

With the Empire "option" gone, I decided on the old reliable Dakota. It also had some minor work that needed to be done before taking it on this trip. They bent over backwards to be helpful and even emailed me photos of what they were doing. They got me back the rifle before promised, good as new.

I place a high value on service, especially when you're talking about such expensive rifles. In this case I'd give the nod to Dakota hands down. Not even close.

John DL -- PM me your phone number.. I will tell George you are looking for him. I am stunned, and amazed, that your calls are not returned.

Dakota or Empire? Empire or Dakota? Neither, call Wayne at American Hunting Rifles! If you want something really special, have him build up a rifle for you on a Granite Mountain action.

I would take a handful of dummy rounds loaded with different bullets and run them through both rifles and buy the rifle with the best feeding. Seen both Dakotas and an Emprire that couldnt feed worth a crap straight from the factory.

My 416 Remington Dakota had a very long, straight pistol grip that did not fit my hand at all. Not an issue with a .300 but it was with a .416.

Check fit and reliability. Good idea to cycle the action w dummy rounds if they will let you.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
John DL -- PM me your phone number.. I will tell George you are looking for him. I am stunned, and amazed, that your calls are not returned.

I second that...Especially since I dealt with George just last month and he was extremely responsive. George answered every question in a pleasant manner and agreed to correct to a problem on a rifle that was caused by the guns previous owner....free of charge...regardless of the fact that I was not the original purchaser.

JC

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Dakota or Empire? Empire or Dakota? Neither, call Wayne at American Hunting Rifles! If you want something really special, have him build up a rifle for you on a Granite Mountain action.

I just returned from Namibia with an AHR 375 built on a Granite Mtn action. Worked great, took Kudu, Black and Blue Wildebeast, and Warthog worked flawlessly. Good looking gun with great performance, and Wayne is great to deal with with fast build time and customer service.

Don't own a DG rifle . YET !
But I do collect rifles , and I would sugjest the liklyhood that before long you will be hearing of pre Remington Dakota rifles.
And they will be touted as much better than the post remington Dakota's be it truth or fiction,
the pre remingtons will more than likly go up in value signifficantly.
Not a sure thing like any investment , but it is somthing to figure in to your choice...tj3006

Let me tell you about the service at Empire. My first 505 Gibbs was purchased from someone here that was having Empire build him a Gibbs. At that time I had the "wants" for this CZ, but was a bit short. George at Empire let me charge the balance on this guy's rifle on my card, which was the asking price on the CZ. He did not charge me a red cent for that service. I consider that waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond customer service. If I ever decide to go with a custom of that type, it will be an Empire.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

.... will more than likly go up in value signifficantly.

TJ,

based on the "limited supply" theory you are proposing an Empire is equally, if not substantially more attactive, as an investment. While I do not know the exact numbers I suspect that there are at least 10 to 20 more Dakotas built, and 20 to 30 more Dakota's offered for resale, for each single Empire that has ever been made.

JC

Nice problem to have.

Just a thought: save a few bucks and go with an Ed Brown Custom. FABULOUS quaity, interesting new action design that works, customer service off the radar. Not fancy or beautiful, though...a wonderful tool.

aren't Ed Brown's rifles PF? Automatically disqualifies it from discussion as a serious custom DG rifle. Might as well buy a remington, it's the same basic action isn't it?

Rich

Ed Brown's used to be push-feed 700's, but not now. In-house designed bolt action. CHeck their Web site for details.