Posting for D'Arcy Echols:

This is quite exciting for me. Where can I order brass?

It wasn't all that difficult to get done. You do need to find some un-head-stamped basic brass, you then you need to form it into shape

Next you need to find a machine shop that has has a Laser printer, figure out what you want engraved and pay the bill when its done for whatever fixturing and labor.

It cost me $2 per round for the lasered head-stamp. "Boy thats Expensive you say" well how many rounds do you need to take out of the county on any one given Safari ?

The rest of your brass you use in the good old USA for practice and load development

Can I get a few pieces off you to start?

A baby Lott!

Pretty much a Lott but with the same identical body taper as the standard 375 H&H

Getting this to feed is pretty basic 101 stuff if you have an action that was set up for the 375 H&H to begin with. If your action of choice doesn't feed these try changing the follower, the guard screws or maybe the recoil pad, what ever works.

Hornady makes the dies, Basic brass is a lot harder to find nowadays. For the Lott I use to use the Barnes Basic stuff that was made for Randy Brooks by Winchester, great stuff but sadly now as rare as the Dodo. Norma was also great brass to use but also very tough to locate then and today who knows? I once bought 300 basic Norma cases in a single bag, but usually in a bag of 50 to 100. I dont think I've ever located more than 400 cases. I read on AR that it never existed, the late Don Heath did say some could have slipped out of the plant. I have no idea where it came from.

Hornady ? Great stuff again when you can get it. At one time the Hornady Basic brass was easy to get, not so much at this time. Hopefully in the future.

The version I chamber for now has a case length of 2.900 which allows you to utilize the crimp groove on almost every commercial 404 bullet currently on the market and have the OAL seated between 3.575 and 3.605 when crimped.

Why would anyone build one of these? Heck if I know

Peterson Belted Mag Basic 2.89”

https://www.petersoncartridge....-magnum-basic-brass/

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
It wasn't all that difficult to get done. You do need to find some un-head-stamped basic brass, you then you need to form it into shape

Next you need to find a machine shop that has has a Laser printer, figure out what you want engraved and pay the bill when its done for whatever fixturing and labor.

It cost me $2 per round for the lasered head-stamp. "Boy thats Expensive you say" well how many rounds do you need to take out of the county on any one given Safari ?

The rest of your brass you use in the good old USA for practice and laod development

If you were here you could have come over and done all you want on our machine, free of charge except your time!

Saeed
Thanks for the offer I'll keep that in mind for the next run

Matt I didn't have a clue, thanks! Looking at the print now

D'Arcy, what a great opportunity you have, you could introduce the LX action and the 404 Echols action as a package, and probably sell enough to pay for therapy and a couple extra visits with your chiropractor

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
Pretty much a Lott but with the same identical body taper as the standard 375 H&H

Getting this to feed is pretty basic 101 stuff if you have an action that was set up for the 375 H&H to begin with. If your action of choice doesn't feed these try changing the follower, the guard screws or maybe the recoil pad, what ever works.

Hornady makes the dies, Basic brass is a lot harder to find nowadays. For the Lott I use to use the Barnes Basic stuff that was made for Randy Brooks by Winchester, great stuff but sadly now as rare as the Dodo. Norma was also great brass to use but also very tough to locate then and today who knows? I once bought 300 basic Norma cases in a single bag, but usually in a bag of 50 to 100. I dont think I've ever located more than 400 cases. I read on AR that it never existed, the late Don Heath did say some could have slipped out of the plant. I have no idea where it came from.

Hornady ? Great stuff again when you can get it. At one time the Hornady Basic brass was easy to get, not so much at this time. Hopefully in the future.

The version I chamber for now has a case length of 2.900 which allows you to utilize the crimp groove on almost every commercial 404 bullet currently on the market and have the OAL seated between 3.575 and 3.605 when crimped.

Why would anyone build one of these? Heck if I know

Not sure if your “Why” is in jest but it is thoroughly outlined in the other thread. I like the simplicity of the cartridge, ease of conversion from an existing 375HH and duplication of the 404. I am figuring out the 300-400HH for the same reasons and the 400-375 AKA Karamojo as well.

Boy when it rains it pours, At least for now Petersen is selling unstamped Basic Belted Magnum Brass as well in smaller lot orders. I was also just sent a link to Gun Broker where some Factory Boxed Norma Basic Brass is on sale at this very moment. Go figure

All this is great if you feel you need to get a correct head stamp for travel.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
Boy when it rains it pours, At least for now Petersen is selling unstamped Basic Belted Magnum Brass as well in smaller lot orders. I was also just sent a link to Gun Broker where some Factory Boxed Norma Basic Brass is on sale at this very moment. Go figure

All this is great if you feel you need to get a correct head stamp for travel.

I still have some of the Norma basic brass and another brtand.

It's what Holland and Holland should've produced instead of their 411 H&H

So very cool to see this

What can this round do that a .416 REM cannot do?

Shoot a .423” bullet.

Hey..I'm all for having fun with new improvements. Truthfully, I'd be hard pressed to find a "new place" for this cartridge...looks very much like the 400 H&H introduced about 20 years ago.

Educate me..

I have a 400H&H on the way but would rather have the .404. At the time I understood dies wouldn't be available for a couple years and I didn't want to wait.
There are Redding dies available for the 400 and brass is being made for me by Roberson.

I find the larger selection of 404 bullets appealing.

A fair enough question to be sure. Do we need the 500 Jeffery or the Gibbs, the 26,28 or 30 Nosler ? tHE 300 PRC ? or for that matter the Weatherby's ? The answer is yes we do because we want them.


The 404-375 will produce less recoil than the 416 Rem and the Lott, doubt it? calculate the numbers, better yet shoot each. I certainly feel the difference. You can drive a 400gr from 2150fps to 2300fps pick any speed you desire. Did we need to resurrect the 450-400 3" or 404 Jeffery, Fuck No but we did anyway and I'm glad.


It will hold 4 rounds down and 1 up in a 300/375 Pre-64 Model 70 receiver, a current Model 70 set up for 375 H&H or a standard 98 modified with the proper magazine width for the 375 H&H as it has the same original body taper as the 375 H&H. So no bin ball wizards are required.

If you have a 375 H&H reamer all you now need is an approx. .414 pilot to cut the chamber to depth and then a appropriate Neck/throating reamer to finish the job

Plenty of bullets available, lots of barrel, Hornady makes the dies, find some basic brass or neck down the Lott or neck up the 375 H&H

Tell me, What's not to like

Any pressure tests on this?... velocities? Just a note.... the 400H&H comes in a bit under 64K, Jeff under 54K...bullets weights and velocities about same. I'd only have to guess the 404/375 would come in close

OK by me...If it's fun to make up this cartridge, guess that's reward enough for some.

None other that actual shooting and looking for pressure signs with those loads fired. Someone with Quick-load could get pretty close.

I came up with these loads very early on. Careful now nobody do anything stupid



I have now been to the range twice with this wildcat. I knew getting 2250fps with 400gr bullet would be easy and so it was. I used new Remington brass, Fed 215-M primers and H-4895 to drive it all. I have now shot the Barnes 400gr Banded solid, the 400gr TSX, the Woodleigh 400gr FMJ and the Swift 400gr A-frame. I had to limit my testing to 50 yards this last weekend as a Match was being conducted on our 100-300 yard range. The scope was a new Leupold 3X.

I did a basic Ladder test with these 16 rounds, starting at 58grs using only the A-Frame Bullets and went to 73grs before I ran out of rounds. I had two accuracy clusters, one when the velocity reached 2230fps and the other just over 2300fps. The velocity with the 73grs of powder was 2388fps which eclipses the original 416 Rigby load. I noticed no apparent pressure signs with that 73gr load. Belt expansion was only .0008. The next day I returned with 12 rounds all loaded with 66grs of H-4895 and the four different bullets listed above. The Barnes Banded solids certainly proved the 24.5" barrel was made well as did the other projectiles. The average velocity for all four loads was 2250fps which is right where I wanted to be. Std dev was in the single digits. Recoil was very tolerable, almost pleasant in a S&M kind of way.

This wildcat has no ballistic advantage over most of the other 40 calibers that are currently available, in fact it's pretty tame by comparison. With a steady finger on the trigger history tells us it will likely kill well beyond its humble energy level. I have no doubt you will be able to use any LR 98 set up properly for the H&H case, any Pre-64 Mod-70 set up for the 300 or 375 H&H or any current Model-70 set up for the 7mm STW, 300 Wtby, 375 H&H or similar 3.600 length magazine and have it work like a champ from day one. You will get 4 down and 1 up if you have a proper W shaped spring installed under the follower in a non drop box magazine. No need for RUM boxes, special followers, incantations, etc.

The muzzle energy falls just north of 4500 Ft lbs , recoil foot lbs in a 9-3/4 lb rifle feels pretty damn mild compared to a Lott and a having 5 rounds available could be handy in a gun fight.

My aha moment on this cartridge came when I realized that the 375HH shoulder diameter was the same as the neck diameter of the .423” bullet in the 375 brass. I have an irrational disdain of belts and shoulders but a taper to a neck is just fine by me. The ease of conversion seems to be as easy as you can get from a 375HH. I like the same idea of the 375HH to a .410” bullet too although it has a tiny tiny shoulder. I like the 300HH to a .410” bullet better because it does the same thing as the 404-375, taper with no shoulder, but it uses the great variety of .410” bullets. It is almost identical to the almost unheard of 400 Griffin and Howe. I will need to make all of these sooner or later. I think the 404-375 is a wonderful wildcat that if it was a factory offering a hundred years ago would be lauded today.

Fine looking cartridge,,it would be an ideal rebore to give the 375 a little pizazze,,,,,

It is an attractive looking round that should perform as well on large game as all the other lower .40 caliber rounds. It should make an ideal Alaskan Brion bear rifle. I am curious as to how it compares with the 416 Ruger in powder capacity?

The biggest reason me and Boomstick spent so much time on this a decade ago was the ease and cost of a conversion vs the 404 Jeffery. Any decent smith should be able to do this. A 404 is a different story, to be a flawless feeder. Any Winchester, Rem 700 or rifle that's already a 375 can be easily coverted without having to account for the shape and size of the 404 J. Simple rebarrel or even rebore and your sitting pretty. At that time, basic brass was much more available. Peterson is now making belted basic without a headstamp, but there was a stretch there that brass you could travel with was tougher to get. A few brands would've been easy enough to have "404-" added by an engraver or laser.

The end result was always ease of conversion, lower pressure, and more frontal diameter. It was never about chasing ultimate velocity or energy. 2150-2200 fps w/400 grains has been working well enough for over a century

Holy crap!!!
You mentioned 10 years and I didn’t think it was that long but I looked it up it was even more, it was over 13 years ago!

So is there a reason you guys haven't put one together yet ?

Waiting for the tide to change or the second coming of 8 tracks ?

life's short

Point taken. Kids are expensive! Less kids in my nest now, I can have more “Me” money now so I am planning some of my put off projects. Them were better days with 8 tracks

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Point taken. Kids are expensive! Less kids in my nest now, I can have more “Me” money now so I am planning some of my put off projects. Them were better days with 8 tracks

Some bands are re-releasing cassettes now…8-tracks can’t be far behind. Great days ahead, better start looking for an action…

What is the H2O capacity of this cartridge?

Does anyone know the H2O capacity of the .400 H&H for comparison?

Someone did a H2O measurement before, There are a few threads on this cartridge. There is one with 11 pages in my signature line. I think at 2.8” length the capacity was a tad more than 101 grains but I would measure your individual brass. At the longer lengths obviously more. The 400 HH is about 2.85” long and has a capacity of 104 grains as listed here https://everipedia.org/.400_H&H_Magnum
I would be curious to see the 2.85” and 2.9” capacity numbers of the 404-375.

I'd use whatever Nosler list for water capacity for the Lott

Where is RIP from Kentucky when you need him ? Now that guy is a Wildcat professional.

No endless pushing lineS around on the PC. Think about it, draw it On paper, make the reamer, chamber it and shoot it.

Looks like RIP and Saeed had a falling out back in Jan 28, 2021. He hasn't posted since.

I guess that's what happens when you don't play nice in the sand box

I ordered 100 Peterson Brass Unprimed Belted Mag Basic cases from Graf & Sons. Has anybody used Peterson brass? At $2.00 a case delivered, it surprised me because I was expecting to pay more.

Is that the same brass as my Norma and Hornady basic mag brass?