The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Too heavy .416Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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.416 rem, Mauser action. 23.5" barrel .823" at the muzzle. 10lb 5oz with 3 down no scope or rings. With leu 1.5-5 and Warne detachables it's heavy and slow. If I cut 1.5" off the barrel, back to 22", it should feel quicker. Any ideas how many ounces the 1.5" piece would weigh? Scott | ||
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A little less than 2 ounces. Steel weighs .283 lb. per cubic inch. Area of barrel minus area of bore x 1.5 x .283 x 16. Hope I calculated correctly. | |||
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Sounds about right my 416 Taylor weighs 10 pounds. I wouldn't like it liter. | |||
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Because I'm an idiot, I can't tell the difference between diameter and radius in the formula. ((Pi*r*r of the barrel of at .283 Lbm per Cu. In., I get 3.022 ounces of weight reduction. I'm assuming that the taper of the barrel and that weight of the lands inside the bore are negligible. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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My math says a bit over two ounces.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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One of my 416 a Remington big game rifle weighs 7.25 pounds it's light buy it has a hs stock on.it.It's hard to believe it kicks less than my 9.5 pound Winchester express rifle in.416 rem mag .I.liked the remingti. In Alaska but wanted a stainless 416 so I.bought a Remington is 700 stainless in 416 rem mag I.added a floor plate why they don't put one on.it is crazy and a muzzle brake that's removable and it's 8 pounds just right .I hate carrying a gun.That's too heavy and hate shooting.one that too light and knocks your teeth out .Hope you get it balanced good too that and stock drop make the gun kick more or less bad rise more or less .Good luck with it the 416 is an awesome caliber ! | |||
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Using your calculation the entire bbl. at constant .823 diameter would weigh over 10 lb. A 1" diameter solid rod 1.5" long is only 1.18 cubic inches. After recalculating I arrived at approx. 2.7 oz. | |||
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You'll probably appreciate the extra mass when you shoot and, if you take it to Africa, with any luck you can get someone else to carry it  | |||
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Yep you have used the diameters in your calculation not the radii, 0.6 cuin and 2.7oz is the answer as Thirdbite has given. | |||
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When I was an officer candidate in the Marine Corps in 1960, we were still armed with the M1 Garand rifle. The saying was that "The M1 rifle weighs nine point five pounds, but after you carry it ten miles, the point drops out." For this reason, the .505 SRE I carried in Africa weighs 8 3/4 pounds. You don't notice recoil shooting at dangerous game, but you do notice excess weight. There are situations where having someone else carry your rifle is definitely not a good idea. | |||
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Rifle is fun to shoot and half the recoil I expected from all I'd read. 400gr @ 2300. Shooting walnuts, plastic bottles etc. at 30 yards with open sights working the bolt on the shoulder and try to drill em again ASAP. Fun but gets expensive. Feels much better w/o the scope, and frankly I'd like my first buff close and for some reason prefer irons. I guess I can have the scope along as an option. Thanks for the numbers, but at 2.7 I'll probably leave it as is. Course I could always drill a bigger bore in it.  Thanks, Scott | |||
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Scott: I cut my .416 Rem (Win 70) down from 24 to 22 and didn't notice any drop in weight. | |||
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Have that barrel re contoured and shorten it 2". That's what I did with the overweight .375 H&H Win M70 I have. Feels slimmer trimmer and lively. | |||
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Check your calculator again, .416 diameter is not .213 radius it is .208. The cu in is .594 (0.6 rounded) and the weight reduction is 2.689 oz (2.7 oz rounded). Despite the maths, doing as Snellstrom suggests is a good idea. A lighter barrel even by a smallish amount will make a gun feel lighter and livelier. | |||
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whatever weight you decide, it should remain slightly nose heavy, to help with felt recoil .. trust ole jeffe on this opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Recontouring is fine but the stock will still be inlet for the old contour. The gap will look bad imo. restock it if you recontour or get the barrel fluted if your using the same stock/existing inlet. | |||
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I have two 416’s both less than 6.5lb each and one 416 standard weight 9lbsih. My current one is 5lb 11oz with my iron sights. Would. Not. Go. Back. To. Heavy. Rifle. EVER. Again. When I had MelvIn forbes build my first one I checked in here about folks (experts?) thoughts. Seems people told me it would be impossible to shoot. Or virtually impossible and after two shots I’d send it back to be rebarrelled. This was in 2005 I think. I got that Light weight 22” bArrel 416 rem home and ran out the back soor and shot it right into a dirt bank cause I couldn’t stand waiting to see what it was gonna be like!! Wow. More manageable than a 9lb rifle. Less recoil movement, quicker follow up target acquisition, easier to carry, shot great. So the next one I went even lighter. I dropped down to 300 and 350 grain bullets for my 5lb 416 ruger and have let kids shoot it. Most folks who shoot it are disappointed I think. Everyone reads the hype of light weight rifles and think its gonna jump outa their hands and knock them silly, it don’t. Quick sharp and short recoil. But I can carry that thing forever. And I do. About 100-150 days a year that rifle is with me. I’ve had clients loose shot opportunities because their 416’s were so heavy and they couldn’t hold them up to find a 9’ plus bear in their scope with out sandbags and a bench. Be careful about the hype and the internet experts. Best bet is find a light one. Test fire it. Get some hands on experience. I went in blind. MelvIn said he’s never built one like mine. Everyone told me it wouldn’t be controllable. Everyone was wrong. I took a gamble and it was the best decision I ever made regarding rifles. | |||
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About barrel length and balance: Contrary to popular opinion, long barrels and weight forward is faster. One of the fastest shooting sports in the world is Sporting Clays. Many of the champs use long (30-32 inch) barrels. Smoother and faster. Also, Jeffe is correct above about "nose heavy" and recoil. I did the nose heavy thing on my .577 NE single shot. It makes a huge difference. (27 inch 1.2" bull barrel.) J.M.O. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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For off hand shooting an iron sights I wouldn't mess with something that ain't broke..I like a heavy barrel it settles faster on a DG rifle and recoil recovery is faster.. I like a 8-3/4 pound .416 Rem and that with a scope would weight about 9-1/2 lbs. but I want to keep the 24 to 26 inch barrel or go with a heavy 20 inch barrel..Ive had both and liked both..You can turn the barrel or cut it off short. I only like a lighter .416 for one reason and thats my age..at my age a 8-3/4 lb. rifle feels the same as my 10-1/2 lb. rifle did 10 to 20 years ago. I shoot my .416 Remingtons at 2400 FPS with 400 gr. bullets.. I think your decision to leave well enough alone is a wise one, you can think about a change down the road when it gets to heavy to pack..Remember short and fat or long and lean. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Brian: Your analogy between sporting clays and dangerous game hunting would be correct if you drove up to a cape buffalo on a golf cart, dismounted, mounted your gun to your cheek, grunted pull and made the shot. Or if you trudged 8 hours in 70* heat, ran to the sporting clays station with a low gun and the clay bird was thrown at any time. I don't see many grouse hunters carrying 32" barreled 8 1/2 lb. Perrazzi's | |||
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Top in this pic is a .375 H&H Whitworth barreled action. Below it is my .416 Ruger. Because of the thinner barrel walls I was able to go to 26" and still achieve the same balance as and slightly less weight than the Whitworth.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Sporting clays, as well as skeet and trap, are simply games with set rules and parameters. Target shooters like long barreled rifles and handguns too but you won't find many CQB door kickers, African PH's or Alaskan Bear guides carrying exceeding long weapons for very good reasons. One of the top reasons given for the superiority of double rifles is that they are shorter and when your life is at stake and you are wrinkling a wounded animal out of the picker brush a long barrel can be a dangerous impediment. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I know you are right bobmn. I still love a nose-heavy rifle sometimes for off-hand shooting. Real steady and a quick second shot. But sometimes I shoot a short barrel rifle too and I like it. I am booked for 4 cape buffalo again and will use a switch barrel single shot. (.577 NE and 50-110 barrels.) The 50-110 barrel is 22" and the over all length of that rifle with that barrel is shorter that my 30-30 carbine. Short! Also I have come to like a 30" inch barrel O/U for grouse and geese. Have you ever measured the overall length/weight of the popular pumps and autos with 26"-28" barrels that grouse hunters use? Long! Everything works. It's just personal taste, right. For years in the 60's I carried a 7x57 with a 21 inch barrel in the rockies, for sheep and elk. When I can't carry my 13 pound .577 NE all day in the bush under the hot African sun, which is going to be pretty soon, then I will pay someone $20/day to do it. I am approaching 73 yrs of age. I carried the 30-30 carbine, mentioned above, on my first prong horn antelope hunt in 1958. Yes, I have developed some sentiments about barrel length over the years. I like 'em all! Now with pistols I won the 1985 or '86, I forget which year, provincial championship in the unlimited class with a 14 inch contender, 7mm International. I was the first one in BC to shoot a perfect score of 40 in long range silhouette competition. My 12 year old son won the junior provincial championship that year with a 10" barrel in 357 max. I haven't shot clays for years. I just hunt DG now with 375 HH, Mod 70, CZ 458 Lott and the above mentioned big bores. Brian PS. 458Win, I like and agree with your side of the debate too. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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We all have our own ways of skinnin' the cat. My 375HH and 458Lott are factory rifle but I added about half a pound of lead epoxy to the forend. Both rifle weigh close to 12 lbs. Thats for me. Others including my favourite Ph just shake their heads in disgust. I am a skinny old fart in poor shape and I find these rifles real handy. Now, hunting cape buffalo is usually slow shooting. First the faithful tracker carefully sets the sticks up. Then you get your rifle in the sticks (yawn)and look down your sight or scope. Soon, or not so soon, the PH whispers, "...wait...wait... no, not that one... now that one! Also I believe that if I am standing in a place where the brush is too thick to move and shoot my long barrel, then I should step back two inches or get out of that place. Again, that's just me. Call me a 'crazy old coot.' I agree that shooting a charging animal at close range is a different deal. I have never done it in five buffalo. But I know my turn is coming. At a certain level, I dread it, and then, sometimes, I sorta' look forward to that moment when I can set my heavy/steady rifle sites on the chest of a charging old dagga boy and hand him a 700 grain .585 cal. solid at 2,000 fps in the centre of his brisket while my dear ol' PH is chuckling "shoot-shoot!" I must add that I always want the PH to get me as close as he can before I shoot. I've done it at 20 yards. It's awesome! To me that's buffalo hunting! ( I always bring a spare set of shorts just in case.) On the practical side you can sure shove a big solid through the buffalo's heart when you are in close. No softs for me, thank you, for the first bullet in a buffalo. Oh Shit! I probably just started another debate! I'm gonna' run for it. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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Average Joe Hunter isn't going to be able to tolerate a lot of practice with a 6-7 lb 416. I think a happy medium is a nice 9-10 lber. | |||
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Dead Eye, I agree, That's about right. My 50-110 Win single shot will be right in there. It will shoot a .500 cal, 450 grain CEB bullet at 2100 fps IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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458Win, I agree completely with you, about a handy short rifle being needed for digging a grizzly out of the alders or coaxing a cat out of the tall grass. The thing is, most of us wannabe's don't ever do that sort of thing. Hell, I'm at a place in my life where I am afraid to go to WallMart on Friday. For me it's about making that first deliberate shot because if I screw that up, my PH scowls at me and then says something bad in Afrikaans. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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Guides and PH's love well placed first shots !! Even more so when they can be delivered quickly ! Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Again. My light 416 is way more comfortable to shoot than my heavy one. Although I did sit at a bench and do 46 rounds of 400gr noslers once trying to find a load my NULA liked. I wore a life jacket that day because I knew it was gonna be a long one. That being said. I only use a bench to check zero, the rest of my shooting is fun practice. Ball rolling down a hill, stick floating in a river, off hand squirrel hunting. More field condition shooting. But as others have attested some Folks like different things. I don’t like country. But I can fall asleep to Metallica and I don’t like kuiu camo. | |||
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Fourtyonesix. This may be interesting. If your light 416 is more comfortable it may be in the stock configuration. Does your light 416 have a straighter stock, Less drop? Is the balance in about the same place? Any noticeable differences between the two rifles? I am honestly interested. I have always been intrigued by "felt recoil" This is a good chance for me to learn something. Same calibre different rifle/stock. Thanks, Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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My current 416 Rem is a M-70 in a McMillan M-70 Supergrade stock and weighs 9.5 lbs scoped. It is very comfortable to shoot. I have had 10.5 lb 416 Rems and they were comfortable too. The Supergrade stock is just so comfortable a fit for me that it works well. | |||
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I've got M1 Garands that weigh less than that.  Life's too short for heavy big bores. All The Best ... | |||
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My stocks all had/have very little drop at comb. I think stock design is key in felt recoil and is different for everyone. Kinda like pain tolerance. I’m not a big guy, 5’8” about 190lb. The difference I notice in recoil with my light gun is I don’t get moved as much. Lighter object in motion takes less energy to stop perhaps. But my heavy 416 really rocked me back. Light 416 quick fast recoil. Like a slap. Heavy 416 slower farther recoil. More like a punch. My Nula light Gun on a 22” bArrel, Douglas #4 contour I believe and my ruger is on a 18” Barrel that has been turned down. Neither was barrel heavy, both balanced and pointed well due to custom LOP. | |||
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Do life jackets also prevent my retinas from detaching? | |||
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Yes but don’t stop headaches. Just delays them. | |||
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Fourtyonsix. Thats really interesting. Especially about the lighter rifle. When I first built my 577 NE it weighed 14+ lbs. It came back like a freight train. Same idea as what you say. It seems like perceived is a very individual thing. Thank's again for your help. Basically I am learning that I can't generalize so much on the subject. IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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If I had listened to all the “experts” I would have never ended up with the light weight guns I did. I took a gamble and went against what almost every single person told me about recoil on a light weight 416. I’m sooooo glad I did! | |||
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Looking at your signature line, I take it you carry these rifles as guiding back up and rarely have to fire them bar emergencies - in which case I probably would not feel the recoil, either. As advice for newcomers, however, I don't think it is very helpful. It is not while shooting at large bears that people develop flinches but at the range, trying to set their rifles up. And much as we might like to think it has not affected our nerves, the body sometimes makes its own conclusions, which may not concur with the bravado of the brain. There may be a concussion risk that we don't think of in heavy recoil, too. A brain moved violently about by shock to a nearby shoulder and cheek may be little better off than a boxer's. While all big-gun shooters risk and put up with a bit of this, let's not go overboard by using underweight rifles. Put the bravado back the other way: applaud the shooter strong enough to carry an adequate rifle of sensible weight without complaint. | |||
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Sambar: Or just use a PAST recoil shield at the range. | |||
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