Sambar, you do make a good point in that once a flinch is developed it can seriously hinder the hunter and adversely affect the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

Looking at your signature line, I take it you carry these rifles as guiding back up and rarely have to fire them bar emergencies - in which case I probably would not feel the recoil, either.

As advice for newcomers, however, I don't think it is very helpful. It is not while shooting at large bears that people develop flinches but at the range, trying to set their rifles up. And much as we might like to think it has not affected our nerves, the body sometimes makes its own conclusions, which may not concur with the bravado of the brain. There may be a concussion risk that we don't think of in heavy recoil, too. A brain moved violently about by shock to a nearby shoulder and cheek may be little better off than a boxer's. While all big-gun shooters risk and put up with a bit of this, let's not go overboard by using underweight rifles.

Put the bravado back the other way: applaud the shooter strong enough to carry an adequate rifle of sensible weight without complaint.[/QUOTE]



I wasn’t giving advice to newcomers I didn’t figure. Sounds like most the guys here in the “big bore” forum have their cannons already. Perhaps I was wrong. However if I feel my light rifle is more tolerable to shoot than my heavier one, why is that something that shouldn’t be told to a newcomer? When I was new to 416’s no one told me and I tried it anyway. Glad I did.
If a concussion is what I’m getting, I’d rather get it from my light weight rifle as opposed to my heavy weight rifle. There’s no doubt it effects our nerves, if I sit down with a 243 or so I have to keep reminding myself the recoil isnt gonna get me.
Keep in mind all I’m saying here is my light weight rifle isn’t as bad to shoot as my heavy one of the same caliber. Not saying there’s no recoil. Because there is! Just that as recoil goes and the ingredients mixed into it, what comes outa the light weight rifle is more enjoyable to shoot. I usually go thru about three boxes of ammo a year with this rifle.

This is not new but it is still interesting.
On the range, my 577 NE really works me over. On the bench or on the sticks, it's all tough. My limit is 30 rounds.
Of course when I'm close to a buffalo it is not so bad at all. I understand the explanation. Adrenalin.

Last year I shot a cape buffalo from 30 yds. after a good sneak. We found it nearby, gasping under a thorn tree.
I was standing about 20 ft from it and the PH asked me to "put one in the spine."
I was pretty wound up and I made a perfect shot on my .577 with no flinch. I laughed and told the PH that the recoil FELT like a 30-06. ( To me, it did.)

I know about the explanation that I was full of adrenalin. But that still doesn't explain why I don't have the focus or will power to set my mind to have the same experience when I am shooting at a paper target. Same rifle, same physics.

Years ago, I did a little boxing. Some days I hated getting hit. Some days I loved it.
Go figure.

Fourtyonesix, You are right. "Do it quickly". Whatever big game you are hunting and regardless of the situation, the hunter has to do it with dispatch. We need to practice it. I have missed easy shots on good game because I hesitated.

People are different in their ability to absorb recoil and it seems some of us even enjoy it.

A friend has hunted sambar with a sub-7.5lb 458WM for 40 years and since it is carried more than shot, I don't blame him.

For the newer shooter who thinks he or she would like to hunt with a powerful but low-mass rifle, I would suggest getting someone like my mate or Fourtyonesix to sight it in and then only shoot it off sticks or off-hand, to avoid gaining a bad flinch.

I often wonder to what extent the old elephant hunters ever sighted in their big db rifles unless a bead was obvious damaged. When you walk in to seven yards to take your shots, neither accuracy nor fear of recoil are likely to figure.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Canada:
Fourtyonsix. Thats really interesting. Especially about the lighter rifle. When I first built my 577 NE it weighed 14+ lbs. It came back like a freight train. Same idea as what you say.
It seems like perceived is a very individual thing.

Thank's again for your help. Basically I am learning that I can't generalize so much on the subject.

If I had listened to all the “experts” I would have never ended up with the light weight guns I did. I took a gamble and went against what almost every single person told me about recoil on a light weight 416. I’m sooooo glad I did!

I don't know why you are saying "listening to all the experts". I don't think anyone has claimed to be expert and you cannot deny simple physics in so far as the law of momentum where every action has an equal reaction. The degree of action or reaction is determined by the mass x velocity being equal on both sides of the equation. The recoil of a rifle is determined by the mass of the bullet and the powder charge x the velocities of the two. If the gun is light the recoil velocity will be higher, if the gun is heavy the recoil velocity will be slower. Most shooters feel recoil as the velocity the gun is moving rearward which can be a sharp jarring movement or a slow heavy push, and most find the slow heavy push more tolerable.

In your case, because of various reasons, you prefer to tolerate the sharp jarring movement. The majority of shooters tolerate the opposite, they are not "experts" but when asking others for opinions you will find that most will be opposite in thinking to you and will go for heavier guns including adding weight to get the recoil velocity to a more tolerable level.

Many shooters will fire 10x or 100x more ammo through their big bores in a year than your 3 boxes a year. Obviously you do not shoot all three boxes in one sitting therefore it seems you are likely to shoot only a few at a time. Try shooting your 3 boxes in one sitting and then see how the recoil is from your light gun.
Five rounds of 404 factory ammo off the bench through my light M98 Mauser creates enough recoil velocity for me. The recoil pad is a small size ground down to fit the butt so it has a small bearing surface on the shoulder, I sure as hell wouldn't want to go lighter.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

If I had listened to all the “experts” I would have never ended up with the light weight guns I did. I took a gamble and went against what almost every single person told me about recoil on a light weight 416. I’m sooooo glad I did!

I don't know why you are saying "listening to all the experts". I don't think anyone has claimed to be expert and you cannot deny simple physics in so far as the law of momentum where every action has an equal reaction. The degree of action or reaction is determined by the mass x velocity being equal on both sides of the equation. The recoil of a rifle is determined by the mass of the bullet and the powder charge x the velocities of the two. If the gun is light the recoil velocity will be higher, if the gun is heavy the recoil velocity will be slower. Most shooters feel recoil as the velocity the gun is moving rearward which can be a sharp jarring movement or a slow heavy push, and most find the slow heavy push more tolerable.

In your case, because of various reasons, you prefer to tolerate the sharp jarring movement. The majority of shooters tolerate the opposite, they are not "experts" but when asking others for opinions you will find that most will be opposite in thinking to you and will go for heavier guns including adding weight to get the recoil velocity to a more tolerable level.

Many shooters will fire 10x or 100x more ammo through their big bores in a year than your 3 boxes a year. Obviously you do not shoot all three boxes in one sitting therefore it seems you are likely to shoot only a few at a time. Try shooting your 3 boxes in one sitting and then see how the recoil is from your light gun.
Five rounds of 404 factory ammo off the bench through my light M98 Mauser creates enough recoil velocity for me. The recoil pad is a small size ground down to fit the butt so it has a small bearing surface on the shoulder, I sure as hell wouldn't want to go lighter.

Experts was in quotes, as in “experts” those who told me it couldn’t be done based
Off their information/physics. Not saying they claimed to be experts. Sorry for confusion.

My intent with sharing my observations of my shooting is just to broaden thought process towards rifle weight and the ability to handle a lighter/bigger bore. I do not believe many folks have had the chance
To shoot sub six pound 416’s. I’m certainly not going to share my views on .30-‘06 recoil! Lol

If you can afford To shoot 300 boxes of big bore ammo a year more power to ya. Not a league I’m in.