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That is true in all hunting. But if for some reason you bullet misses the elephant's brain, and there is at least a 50-50 chance of that happening, then if you have a big bore with a big bullet, the elephant may fall or at least be stunned enough for you to get off a second shot. But if you are using a .416 on down, then expect the elephant to run off full speed. Likewise, a big bore bullet that misses an ele brain will likely turn the ele's charge, while a .416 on down frequently does not. | |||
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Freinds, The conical pistol bullets shown penetrate about 12 inches of NATO gelatin and did not turn over. Nor did they turn over in the heads of feedlot cattle or body shots on goats. If they did, the Frontal Area sideways would be about the same as front on, which is not unusual with a short large caliber pistol bullet. The higher velocity and lighter (70 grain) 9mm, .38 and .357 did veer off course and behave more erratically at velocity up to 2200 fps. This was corrected by reducing the angle of the conical nose from 70 to 45 degrees. I am not suggesting a light weight conical elephant bullet but one that looks like any of the BRL penetrators which are basically long (high SD) cylinders with a 45 degree conical on the front of the bullet rather than a Wadcutter. I am quite sure that this bullet would have its center of gravity more closely aligned to its center of form than most Truncated Cone Flat Nose. Would these conical bullets cavitate or just have alot of drag on the sides of the cone in a visco-elastic medium???? They obviously work in a hard target. Andy | |||
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Hallo Andy, Oh Your Uncle Earl? From shooting the wild Boar in Movement I notice when You have to act quick, open Sight cannot be beaten. The better open Sights are the “Ghost ring†with a “Perlkornâ€. I do not how to name that in English, direct Translation would be “Beed grainâ€, so I use a Picture instead:  +  =  Especially high, round Front sights work well together with the “Ghost ring†Lutz p.s. The above gas dynamic Recoil brake is for Things like the .416â€Reigby with open Sight. Shoots nice! You keep Sight, when You fire! | |||
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Alf, the sectioned Head was from a 45 Yer old indian Lady. That`s true. The Half weighed just 19 kg. But in all the Pictures are Africans as well. Men are bigger than Woman, if Man or Elefant. The Loxodonta is bigger than the Elephas. For practical Frontal head shot purpose, I was told to assume both are quite equally built, except for the Teeth, just bigger. Lutz | |||
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500Grain, How would You explain Your Statement “Bigger is better!†in the functioning Details. When You miss the Brain and the Bullet only passes through air ventilates Sinusses (Cavities) , even a real big Bullet, like Ulrik`s .585", has no Chance to “rock†the Brain, to â€stun†the Elephant, as just Milimeter thick Bone walls cannot support or transmit enough Force to accelerate the whole Head enough to shake the Brain inside enough into Dysfunction. So please, how should that work? Lutz | |||
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Hi 465H&H, while You happily hunt in Africa, I found Your unanswered Post. If I expressed myself in a Way, that someone might think “it would be a good Idea to use longer Bullets to increase Stabilizationâ€, I made a Mistake. I nevem meant to say that, and I wonder if I really did. All bullets, except Balls need some Stabilization to fly as intended. The Arrow or Bolt uses an aerodynamic Stabilization, just as most Airplanes do. We talk her about Spin stabilization. With spin stabilized Bullets quite the Opposite is true. To recognise one may write: Long Bullets need to spin fast, i.e. need short Twits with steep Angles. Short Bullets tolerate slow spin, i.e. allow longer Twist with shallower Angels. While the spin stabilizes the Bullets in Air, the mechanism fails in Meat or Bone. Lutz | |||
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   Alf, pleas helpe me with Answers to two Questions: 1. What is "CSF"? 2. Which Cavities are marrow filled? Please us Your Nomenclature from http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Wild/Elefantenjagd/Elefantskull.htm Lutz | |||
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This has to be one of the most informative threads I have seen here. Truly great stuff! I have a couple of questions, which may seem a little low level for this discussion. On the pictures of the bullet impact on the gel material, specifically, the expanded cavity - I take it that the expansion beyond the diameter of the bullet would represent the "temporary wound channel" discussed in most materials on terminal ballistics? And regarding cavitation, does the point at where that channel ceases expansion and reverts to the bullet diameter represent the point at which the bullet stops cavitating? For purposes of my questions, please disregard any wouund channel impact as the result of tumbling. I guess I am also asking if cavitation (or supercavitation) creates the wound channel expansion (for example, you really do not any wound channel expansion with a .45 ACP but you do with higher velocity rounds). Finally, given the fact that trying to increase bullet weight using copper inevitably results in an increase in length (and thus leads to stability issues as a result of twist), it it even feasible to use something heavier than copper (say tungsten) to increase bullet weight without increasing length? Sorry if I took the discussion down a couple of notches, but hey, you giuys needed a breather anyway! SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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It is not the case that an elephant's head is full of air like a big balloon. The honeycomb structure has fluid in it which builds and transmits a shock wave. And the bullet punching through various layers of bone also transmits shock. Also, probably more important than the theory, is field experience. Both I and many others have shot elephants in the head with a big bore and they fell down. But with a small bore they don't. | |||
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I'll second 500's post and add that I have almost surely killed one elephant with a near miss frontal brain shot. All of the dangerous stuff gets an insurance shot and this one did too, but her eyes said it all and she never moved after the first shot. I have knocked out several elephants that showed what were perhaps signs of life but were down for good. They got an insurance shot too. As 500 Grains has mentioned, an elephant can be stopped close by a big bore and it is the shock that does it, imo. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Lutz, do you think they lack shoulder stabilization due to their 60 degree conical configuration or because they are a short pistol bullet? I am not suggesting a lightweight elephant bullet, but a SD .305 monometal with a 60 degree conical ogive. A 370 grain .416, 450 grain .458, 500 grain .475. Andy | |||
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Alf, when grabbing Elefant neck bones one instantly feels from the Weight and looking at the Size, they are more a Sponge than a solid:  Elfant Atlas  Elefant neck bones  Rear Elefant neck bone  Elfant Vertebrae Would You have an Email or Telephone of van der Merve, so we could ask him, which Cavities might be marrow filled ar vnish after Ossification in old Age? Lutz | |||
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Andy, Soulderstabilization (SS) requires an almost flat Nase. The Reason, why the Nipple on my Kavitator is so shallow, is not to disturb the Geometry too much. Always think about the ellispoid Isobars for a Flow hittung a Plane. A 60° Cone would not take too much Benefit of SS. Therfor such a Design would offer on marginal Stability, if any. Short Bullest are always easier to stabilize as longer ones. For a given Mass, shorter bullets have a shorther Lever between the Stagnation Force versus the Impulse thought to act in the Gravity center. Lutz | |||
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Jim, the best Answer would give Heinz Gerber, the Author from http://www.ruag.com/. You shall reach him at heinz.gerber[a]ruag.com Lutz | |||
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All right Alf, Vertebrae are not aerated, but Marrow filled. Would You contact van der Merwe to let him answer the Question, which Elfant skull cavities are marrow filled.I will only next Tuesday be able to search for an Answer. How spongious the Femur is, illustrate these Photos:        Lutz | |||
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Lutz, Are these the bones of the Indian or African elephant? My cow had a 15 cm thick femur, and the one you are showing with a meter stick is just 9.5 cm. Alf, I have noticed that some animals leg bones are hard and more likely to shatter (elk), and cut up an expanding bullet, and others appear to be thick but soft and somewhat mushy (bear) in comparison. What would account for this? The opinion's from AR's many elephant hunters would be appreciated. Are they relatively soft or hard? Andy | |||
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Way too many Elfants: The Herald (Harare) Harare OVER 110 000 elephants now inhabit Zimbabwe and the number is growing 5 percent annually although there is space and food for only 47 000. The rapid growth in numbers is raising fears of a second Sebungwe Disaster, when half a century ago a population explosion caused massive destruction to vegetation and depletion of other wildlife in the Gokwe and Binga areas. This led to the implementation of culling as a policy. The Parks and Wildlife Management Authority did an elephant survey late last year at a cost of US$105 000. The money provided by the World Wildlife Fund. Up to 90 000 elephants were counted outside Gonarezhou National Park and it was established that the park held more than 20 000, said Parks spokesperson Retired Major Edward Mbewe yesterday. Zimbabwe last year adopted several elephant management strategies following the high incidence of human-elephant conflict that resulted in the death of more than eight people countrywide. The survey was undertaken to determine the rate of population growth to ensure best practices were employed for sustainable management. "There were natural deaths recorded and some of the meat was given to the communities and the remaining sold to various stakeholders who include other wildlife and crocodile farmers. The money realised from the sales was ploughed back into the communities," Rtd Maj Mbewe said. Minister of Environment and Tourism Cde Francis Nhema yesterday said the elephant population in the country was growing to the detriment of thriving ecosystems. He said not only had animals destroyed huge tracts of vegetation, but they had also killed and maimed people. "This calls for effective management strategies to see how best we can deal with the situation of overpopulation of elephants in Zimbabwe. "We have a hunting quota of 500 every hunting season but this is not meaningfully reducing the population," Cde Nhema said. | |||
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Lutz, That is 63,000 too many elephants! I guess this proves that the best elephant skull simulant is . . .. an elephant! Good hunting to us all! Andy | |||
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 Elefants in Zimbabwe  devaste their Habitat  and destroy their own and Others Life base Andy, apparently we have Task to fulfill (Smile)! Lutz | |||
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Lutz, Beautiful photos, and they really tell the true story of what too many elephants can do to a landscape. Here is a typical scene from my novemebr hunt in Dande North.  It looked like a forest fire had gone through the hunting concssion but it was just elephant habitat damage. We would drive for 30-45 minutes to find a tree with green leaves left intact to have lunch under and a bit of shade. PS, were the photos of your elephant bones an Asian or African? My African cow had quite a bit thicker leg bones (15 cm). Andy | |||
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Andy, ist was a 45 Year old Indian Lady that died in February 1945 in Hamburg Please read Bow Wave Theory disussed Lutz | |||
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Two things that I have noticed in the dying stages of this thread: 1(a)
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Isn't this exactly what GS Custom was saying since 1993 and still today? Yet, when somebody else copy casts the same idea nobody on the forum even have the slightest question about it! Double standards? Not that I agree at all with the physics thrown around in the "Bow wave theory" and elsewhere in this thread either. Which, by no surprise, brings me to this part: 2.
Is that the "Bow wave theory" that is in vain or what? Or is it rather a question of incorrect application of physics that results in incorrect calculations? OWLS My Africa, with which I will never be able to live without! | |||
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Hallo Owls, there shall be nothing wrong with a “Bow Wave Theory“, but please remember, to utilize its Benefits of Effects off the direct Wound channel, requires an almost liquid, dense and hence incompressible Target, to transport the “Waveâ€. Meat qualifies. Air does not. The “Wave†propagates in Meat, but not with the same Transportation in Air. Solids are another Story. As the Thread soon concentrated on the Elephants Skull, the Question, what the Bullet, from a frontal Head shot, “sees†became paramount! If all Skull’s cavities would be liquid filled (they are not), a “Bow Wave Theory†could be applied, to explain how the Bullets Push in the Target would propagate the Acceleration (i. e. move) the liquid, soft Target off the direct Bullet Path an shake the Medium. We know, Nerves act upon Acceleration and Stretch. A Boxer may knock don his Fighting Partner, just by accelerating his Brain. That’s the same Thing. Nerves, and the Brain consist mainly of Nerves, respond to such unpleasant Mistreatment with at least temporal Dysfunction. When You shoot any four legged Mammal high in the Soft, say Kidney region, with a large, sturdy and fast enough Bullet, the Animal will immediately fall, because the “Bow Wave†pushes aside from the Bullets Path the Soft against the Spine, the Vertebrae move against each other an the Spine is shaken, hence the Function vanishes and the Brain cannot control the rear Legs any more and the Animal falls. The Head may still be up, the animal live and be conscious, but the Bottom is Will less; cut off. As said earlier, the Bullet Size and Speed determine the Bullets “Pushâ€; Size linear and Velocity to the Square. Therfore large and fast Bullets push more, than small and slow ones. As for a given Cartridge You cannot play with Calibre, but just with Bullets Length and hence Weight, the remaining Question to optimize for the best Punch or Push to maximize the “Bow Wave†is, should I use a longer or shorter Bullet, that is a heavier or lighter, hence slower or faster. No meaningful Answer can be given, less taking the Target Size into Account. The Answer is, use the fastest Bullet, that still will penetrate the Animal until the desired Target is reached, may it be Lung, Hear, Brain or whatever. To get some Information about Elephant Heads took a While. I visited some Skulls, sectioned ones includes, and talked to some Experts, both Hunters and Scientists. Unlike previously and falsely assumed, the most Elephants Head Cavities a Bullet will pass on is Way from the Hunter in front of the Elephant to the Brain or lightly beside it, are not Marrow filled, but AIR filled. THIS completely changes the required Assumption to apply a Bow Wave Theory in the Elephants Head; just there, not in general. Thin walled and air filled Cavities just do not transport a Bow Wave. So a Miss is Miss. Either You hit the Brain, or You miss it. Elephants probably do not like to be shout through their Air filled Sinus Cavities, but that neither kills them, nor “knocks them downâ€, in the Meaning to shake the Brain temporarily out of Function, like a Boxer knocks his fighting Partner down. There may be many Reasons to like certain Calibres and Bullets, but from plain Biology and Physics that above said is it. It can be quantified, if needed. Lutz  | |||
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Lutz, What you say about elephant skulls is just not true. There is substantial fluid in the honeycomb, more on cows, less on bulls, more lower in the skull, less higher for both sexes. The air filled cavities are to the fron and away from the brain. Further, a miss isn't nessecarily a miss. I have killed one cow with a miss and seen video of another. In the case of my elephant we cut open the skull to be sure. In addition, I have knocked down and out several elephants with close misses. John Taylor's knock out theory lies closer to the truth than often given credit. Small and very fast doesn't work as well as big and modestly fast. History bears this out. Modern day experience bears this out. My rifle, knocking down and out several elephants with .458", 500gr steel jacketed solds at both 2050 and 2135fps, .458" 450gr flat nose mono solids at 2190fps. No observable difference. If your theory was true, I couldn't have knocked down and out any elephant, let alone killed one with a miss. Further, take a look at any of a number of photos of brain shot or head shot elephants and you will see the evidence of the fluid. Here are a couple of examples:   I'm sure I have others but the seep of fluids is hard to see on the thumbnails of all my photos and wading through them isn't all that appealing. Here to is a photo of a missed brain shot on a charging cow, if the head is all air then how can the elephant'a reaction to the bullet strike be explained?  JPK Free 500grains | |||
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Lutz, I must agree with JPK that your theory that an elephant's honeycomb skull is full of air is not correct. But even if it were (which it is not), then shock would still be transmitted to the brain by the skull itself, as long as the bullet impact is not too far away from the brain. But the proof is in the pudding. Go take 10 frontal brain shots on elephant. Like most of us, you will probably miss the brain 1/3 to 1/2 of the time. If you are carrying a .375 or .416, then watch the ele run off. If you are carrying a .458, .470, .500, .505, etc, then watch the ele fall to the ground. I missed a frontal brain with a .505 gibbs on an ele that fell to the ground as if dead, but got up again 10 seconds later. | |||
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Hallo JPK, 500GRains and Jagter, unfortunately I get inconsistent Information, about which Cavities in an Elephants Skull are Liquid filled, and which are Air filled. I have no Theory about that, but must just listen to what the Experts tell me and believe that. Now taken what JPK says
Alf wrote:
Alf again wrote
Case 0: Any well placed Brain shot, that reaches the Brain, will kill the Animal instantaneously. I believe, we all agree and that and need to discuss this no further. We only discuss frontal Brain shots now: Now com the near Misses: Excerpting Knowledge from above, the lower Parts of the Elephant skull Cavities are more likely to be Liquid filled then the upper and frontal ones. Do we agree here, or don’t we? If I’m wrong, Please let me know. Case 1: A near Miss in the lower liquid filled Elephant skull will transport the Impact via the Liquid to the Brain and shake it, is just a little resulting in a Notification, if more removing Conscious or even more killing the Elephant (after the “Bow wave Theoryâ€). Do we agree here too? Case 2: After the Trunk a near Miss in the upper or front Elephant skull through just Air filled Cavities will NOT transport the Impact via the Liquid to the Brain to shake it. The Elephant will notice the Hit, but stay conscious and alive. How much he likes that and what he will do, I have no Idea, maybe get angry, frightened, whatever. Do we agree here too? Now we come, to what You my call my Theory, Wounding cross section or “WCSâ€, describing a solid Bullet ability, to impact the Target. As said WCS grows linear with Cross section and square with Impact velocity. That is plain Stream mechanics. For a given Calibre the Question is which Bullet to take to maximise the Wound cross section. That depends on the Target. The Answer is, take the lightest Bullet, stat will still penetrate the Target. You can nail me on that! It ha nothing to with the Target itself or which Cavities are Air filled. It is just a Consequence from Stagnation Pressure and Size. So opposed to the wide spread Opinion to always take the heavier Bullet for better Performance, the WCS tells us other ways. The Optimum is a little trickier to find, as You must know the Target and Your Bullets Penetration before. Since Poncelet that is easily possible though, see http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Englisch/Penetration_Calculator.html Lutz | |||
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Lutz, We are not in agreement. From the skulls I have observed, the areas labelled 1, 2 and 18 are liquid filled, at least partially, throughout the honeycomb. See both photos that I posted where the seeps occur from holes through one or more of the areas. Regarding the reaction of the elephant to the bullet strike in the last photo, I believe that is 5000lbs of energy transfer stopping, on a dime, 5000lbs and change of elephant, which a blink of an eye previously was moving at top speed. The shot passed low, below the brain, but the relavent fact is that the energy did transfer and quick enough to turn the elephants ears inside out. There would be no substantial energy transfer if there was no substantial structure in the head. I have only shot elephants with the .458" rifle, but even the slow load mentioned earlier has substantial effect. It is that load that killed the elephant with a too high shot that missed the brain by about an inch and a half or so. The death was not quite immeadiate, it took a moment. The elephant froze on the shot but her eyes remained focused, a blink of an eye later they went blank and she fell over, never to even twitch again. I have seen the same on video, the rifle was a 458 Lott in the video. I recall another similar scene, but do not recall the rifle, other than it was a big bore, ie .458 or larger. All reports from the field indicate that a smaller, lighter, faster bullet, rarely knocks out or even down an elephant with a miss, while it is common place with larger slower bullets. .458" and 450-500grs at ~2050fps seems to be the point at which a rifle becomes a "stopper" and capable of commonly dropping an elephant with a missed brain shot. An even more powerful rifle, such as the 416 Rigby shooting a 400gr bullet and which gets its energy from speed and not bullet mass is not in the same league as a 458 shooting 500grs at even 2050fps. The Rigby has the power advantage but yet not the eeffect. For my sources, first take a look at Buzz Charlton's DVD. Buzz is a very experience Zimbabwe elephant PH and until this season, his rifle was a 416 Rigby. In the DVD he repeats perhaps a half dozen times the elephant that fail to drop to his rifle or another's would have dropped to a "500gr bullet". Buzz has shot and seen shot hundreds of elephants and while his observations do not support any particular theory, they amount to field observation of whatever theory actually represents reality. For additinal sources Taylor and countless other proffesionals over the last century. As I previously wrote, Taylor was not wrong and his "Knock Out Theory" isn't too far from the truth. Rather than advance a theory that contradicts field observations and results, from more than a century, it seems wiser to develop the theory that accounts for field results. Recall that even Wheatherby, high velocity pioneers, did not recomend their medium bore hyper fast steppers for elephant and instead recomended a slower big bore. My personal views, for elephants, supported as noted above, is that on the recoil/velocity/bullet weight continuem, you should trade speed for bore and bullet weight. For instance a 500NE rather than a 458 Lott, a 450/400 rather than a 375H&H or Wheatherby... BTW, Buzz has switched to a 450NE for his stopping rifle. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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JPK wrote:
JPK, we agree here fully. What can I say to Your Observation, the upper and frontal Elephant skull cavities are at least partly liquid filled, than to recall, others said otherwise. Maybe Alf can speak up again. Alf? I cannot judge this, as I never sectioned a live Elephant skull. So I have to believe, what Folks tell me. We also agree, bigger Diameter Bullets effect a substantial Structure more, than smaller ones. Do I understand You right, to quote You meaning for a given Calibre slower heavier Bullets effect more than lighter faster ones? Is it that, what You try to tell me? If so, I would have a Problem, to understand why. Please clarify. Lutz  p.s. some lightweight .458 Bullets, not to hunt Elephant for .45-70 Gov | .45†Blaser | .458†Lott as a Low-damage-Meat-getter for Impala and Kudu this June. | |||
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No, but there is a balance. For example, I have noticed that a .474" 500 gr bullet at 2350 fps is less effective than a .510" 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps. But there is a story floating around about the wife of a famous bullet maker who used a .500 NE downloaded to 1700 fps (or maybe less) on elephant and it took something like 19 or 21 shots to bring the ele down. Also Lutz, although the sinuses may have air in them (just like the nostrils  ), that does not mean the whole honeycomb skull is air filled. | |||
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The elephant's paranasal/skull sinuses are all pneumatized/air-filled, or the purpose is defeated. However, they are all also lined with mucous membrane that is always secreting mucuos, draining, and cleaning itself. If the sinus is full of fluid, then that elephant has a sinus drainage problem, a blockage of outflow or a sinusitis. They should usually be mostly filled with air, but always will be wet with some exudate of mucous. The bony structures themselves can transmit concussion to the brain, as 500grains said above. This is obvious: There are no absolutes, everything is relative, and it depends. Dr. RIP has spoken. Further debate is useless. | |||
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Hi Rip, sorry, Dr. RIP, If the poor Beast suffers Sinusitis one could say, You are sick and I have the Cure! A good reason the get his Meat into the Pot! But let’s talk about sane Elephants. To believe, the almost paper thin (ok, thick Paper) Cavity Walls would upon Bullet penetration, that brakes those Walls, transmit enough Concussion to the Brain to defeat its Function, find I hard to believe. If it is so, well I have to bow. From my Side, You may have Your will not to further discuss the Subject, but: Still this cannot explain the often purported better Effect to shoot in a given Calibre slower heavyer Bullets , than faster lighter ones. That Point has no one taken so far with Arguments. There is Room for further Discussion. I state: In a given Calibre faster Bullets create more Concussion, than slower ones. Of Course the Bullets must still be able to penetrate the Head to the Brain (Shooting flat Coins, lacking any substantial sectional Density at Mach 20 will not be useful, as they would penetrate only rather shallow). When the near Miss shots benefit from the induced Concussion, there should have been some Experience to my Statement above in the Field. Any one out there? Lutz | |||
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Hi Rip, sorry, Dr. RIP, If the poor Beast suffers Sinusitis one could say, You are sick and I have the Cure! A good reason the get his Meat into the Pot! But let’s talk about sane Elephants. To believe, the almost paper thin (ok, thick Paper) Cavity Walls would upon Bullet penetration, that brakes those Walls, transmit enough Concussion to the Brain to defeat its Function, find I hard to believe. If it is so, well I have to bow. From my Side, You may have Your Will not to further discuss the Subject, but: Still this cannot explain the often purported better Effect to shoot in a given Calibre slower heavyer Bullets , than faster lighter ones. That Point has no one taken so far with Arguments. There is Room for further Discussion. I state: In a given Calibre, faster Bullets create more Concussion than slower ones! Of Course the Bullets must still be able to penetrate the Head to the Brain (Shooting flat Coins, lacking any substantial sectional Density at Mach 20 will not be useful, as they would penetrate only rather shallow). When the near Miss shots benefit from the induced Concussion, there should have been some Experience to my Statement above in the Field. Any one out there? Lutz | |||
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Lutz, I agree here but only so long as the bullets weigh the same. I would agree that a 458wm shooting a 500gr solid at 2150fps will not do as much damage as a 458 Lott shooting a 500gr solid at 2250fps. But again, if the first, slower example is ample for elephant than the hunter would be wise to utilize the recoil increase from the ample slower load to the faster load pushing a larger diameter, heavier bullet. Again this example: If a 458wm, 500grs at 2150fps, works well then the hunter would be better served going to the 500NE, 570grs at 2150fps, rather than the 458 Lott, 500grs at 2250fps, if the hunter is interested in optimizing increased performance at the same price in recoil. RIP, We're not talking liquid in elephant sinuses, but liquid in the heneycomb of elephant skulls. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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Lutz, Not all the bone encountered in the sinuses near the brain will be paper thin. And maybe the bow wave theory works best on elephants with a head cold or allergy problems. This is too variable a situation to be resolvable by prediction. Just like any other live game situation, too unpredictable. And just because an elephant is suffering from sinusitis does not mean he is insane! Please note the previous: | |||
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JPK, Then I agree that other than the aerated sinus cavities, the spaces would be filled with marrow, which would look like blood, or fat and blood, as it oozed out of your bullet holes. We would not have an aerated cavity within a skull that was not a paranasal sinus ... unless it is the skull of a human named "shootaway." Where's that picture, 500 grains?  | |||
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 For comparison, here is the skull of the elephant man:  | |||
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