Just curious does anyone have any idea how many 700 NE have ever been made. I am assuming it has to be a low count due to the fact A square and every website I have found that sell kynoch ammo has never even handled thw ammuntion. Maybe I need education here but finding ammo is tough, so I assume the rifle count must be low

I would guess 20-25. That is based on what I know came out of England and a few other makers. If it is more, it is not by much.
Cheers,
Cal

You do understand, the 700NE is a modern creation, not a classic Brittish African hunting ctg? Many guns have been built - all in modern times. The 20-25 Cal refers too are high end double guns. I doubt there is a count for custom singles shots and oddball bolts.

Another question would be how many 600NE were built prior to WWII. Those are guns that were actually hunted with in the golden age, but very very few were made. It seems to have pushed the practical envelope of what worked and I would say it was not a successful design for that reason.

Then the last question, you did not ask was how many 577NE doubles would built pre WWII. That would be a very significant number. They were used to good advantage by the few who could handle them. It was introduced as black powder ctg and later in at least two cordite versions. In nitro cordite it was (IMHO) the ultimate stopper in its day.

I would say all together with one of's
built about 50. There are 20 times as many
cases in collectors hands as there are in
guys that have the guns. So you will be in
an exclusive club when you have one. Ed

Butch Searcy has built more than two, because I've handled that many and shot Big Dogg 700's.

Dirty, hard kicking SOB!!

Rich

THE FIRST ONE WAS WAY, WAY TOO MANY !!!!!

It's just an "I WANT A BIGGER ONE" caliber. Read the history of it's cre-

ation in the 1980's. A rich guy who couldn't "get his way" with Holland

and Holland and a 600 NE double was the driving force behind it's "birth".

Had H&H been willing to build BILLY BOY the 600 NE that he originally asked

for the 700 NE would have Likely Never reared it's UNNECESSARY head. The

true 12 bore is SO close to the same diameter at .729" compared to this 13

bore at .700". Lord, just go for something with some history linked to it,

like a 600 NE, 577 NE, 12 bore, 8 bore, etc. I am afraid I am sounding pom-

pus and I don't mean to. It's just a caliber that smacks of the whole 1980's
mentality, and that decade is NOT known for "good taste" and or "class".

The man should have gone to www.purdey.com to get his 600 NE made. Or

if he had decided that H&H HAD to be the maker then he should have done

a 577 NE or done a "bore" sized rifle to exhibit "Good Form". The 700 NE

caliber is the word unnecessary "brought to life"!

Jack, you the man.

It has good, varied, exciting history now I think.
Even though a recent history. One is now setup in a
Savage 210 and almost done, and soon to be shot by a guy
who absolutely had to have a ground breaking
version in a bolt action, that no one has ever done it
in before. It'll be number 51 so to speak,
but it will be THE number one of this kind.Ed

Jack,

you too-too funny man today!

Rich

I'd rather a rifle in HUBEL's 700 HE BY FAR !!!

I've ranted on the 700 NE before. I just loose

it when ever the topic comes up. I just find it

to be so UN-cool, which is the opposite of D/R's.

And the 700 HE is WAY COOL! Converting 50

BMG brass into a giant version of a 458 Lott is

wild. Ed's genius shows itself clearly in this round.

Long live the 700 HE!!! Long live HUBEL!!!

To have both would be Grand!

Oh yes, my 700HE is better especially in bolt actions.
And the brass is definately a better price,
at a fraction of the cost.Like a quarter of the cost.
And collectors are liking them as well as
they do the 700NE. But I don't knock the NE
version as not having any redeeming value,
as it kinda made the 700cal mystique, which has
been helping advance my 700 cartridge. As there is a
half dozen being planned. and I've put it in a
variety of 5 types of guns already to show
what can be done.So if I'm around until I'm 80-85
it should surpass the numbers of NEs.ED

I can say I am sure glad it was born and someone didnt rest at just hearing the answer no.I am happy that the progession for over kill ended 100 years ago with the 600.

Overkill is alive and well on this forum.

Wretched Excess is my motto...

Rich

I don't object to reaching .700, I object to BILL F. choosing NOT to go

a bit farther and using the "CLASSIC".729" 12 bore size for his D/R in the

1980's. I just feel given what was already in hand at the time he could

have made a "Classic" choice. And to ME, "Classic" out shines "new wave"

every time.

Well Jack, some of us like the 700 nitro. I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As to the number, I think Butch has built 6 or 7 of them. Have no idea on the number of English ones. If you don't like shooting the 700 fine, but some of us do like it. I think a lot of shooters bad mouth it and very few have actually shot one. If you can handle it and shoot it, why not?

quote:

I don't object to reaching .700, I object to BILL F. choosing NOT to go a bit farther and using the "CLASSIC".729" 12 bore size for his D/R in the1980's. I just feel given what was already in hand at the time he could have made a "Classic" choice. And to ME, "Classic" out shines "new wave" every time.

I never though of the 12 bore angle. I think the problem is 12 bore sounds small. I know stupid. But when you say bore, 12 sounds small. Heck on this forum 8 is small! For a brag-in rights only cartridge, maybe 700 sounded bigger. Maybe, who knows anothers thoughts.

The long term problem or concern with these over 50 calibers, was penetration. One promising idea, way-back-when was 577 Rewa which was based on the 600NE case. That did not did not catch on any more than the 600. I presume the 577 with good ammo, just plain worked.

The problem that doomed the 600 to obscurity was the required gun weight and obviously the 700 would have been a non starter back when guns were designed for hunting with smokeless powder.

History shows that the 577 is a proven and often most sought after cartridge. History also shows that people like to always try to go bigger. Better??? I don't know but certainly bigger. Just like handguns. Time was when a 357 was considered to be very powerful, then the 44 mag, 454 casul, and not the 500 S&W mag.!5 years ago no one would have thought a 2 3/4" 500 S&W would even be possible. There is always a market for bigger and more powerful. Not practical, but.... human nature.

Sorry my mess up I ment to say I am glad the progression hasn't stopped with the 600ne 100 yrs ago. With a squeare taking 500 and 577 cal. to name a few and just making them with crazy power. Of cousrse there are their others, and ED Hubbel with the 700 HE man that is so exciting

Its hard to get a grip on "what is a big gun". In context of this forum. Is it bore, it it energy, does it include hunting?

The 505 Gibbs is big, the 577NE is bigger and the 600,700NE are yet bigger. With max hand loads of hitech solids, the 505 should out penetrate the other three. The 700 sounds big, but in terms of killing power it may actually under perform some of the smaller bores (500 to 600). Its not just hole size, it is penetration. The you might argue its adequate penetration, since the elephant can only grow so large.

Some of these so called big guns are just throwing soft balls.

But the 50BMG is actually bigger and badder than any of the above. Guns and ammo are available and prices are coming down every day. The 50BMG seems like the biggest gun a person can own, in practical terms. Or in terms of muzzle energy. Size of the gun is impressive too.

Then you say, no,no those 50BMG guns have muzzle brakes. They are not for sport. I agree the brake disqualifies the gun as a sporing weapon. But, others here argue, that it is good sport to hunt with a brake. really? So, again what is a big gun.

There is the 600ok, but they all have brakes. If you include brakes, then 600 is no big deal and the 700HE sounds better or again the 50BMG is king. Or maybe Ed even beats the 50BMG. I would not be surprised. But the BMG can shoot far and hit hard. And, a big person could pick it off the bench and fire off hand.

Now, Ed shoots his 700's in a heavy un-braked true sporting gun. Thats got to be exciting. I think for hunting Ed 585HE is about all that just about anyone could carry and hunt with un braked. And probably loaded down to elephant levels.

Unless you put the brake on, then its not sport. You can fish with dynamite, but its not fishing... It is just killing fish.

I go around and around, talking to myself on this. Maybe I need to scratch the itch with a 50BMG?

There are more than you think. I have shot 4 different ones (three doubles) and I have handled 4 others...

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
There is the 600ok, but they all have brakes. If you include brakes, then 600 is no big deal and the 700HE sounds better or again the 50BMG is king. Or maybe Ed even beats the 50BMG. I would not be surprised.
Now, Ed shoots his 700's in a heavy un-braked true sporting gun. Thats got to be exciting. I think for hunting Ed 585HE is about all that just about anyone could carry and hunt with un braked. And probably loaded down to elephant levels.

Unless you put the brake on, then its not sport. You can fish with dynamite, but its not fishing... It is just killing fish.

I go around and around, talking to myself on this. Maybe I need to scratch the itch with a 50BMG?

Hi fourbore,
A few incorrect assumptions there.

Not all 600 Overkills have muzzle brakes.
Those built by AHR have removable brakes and come with end caps so the threaded portion is protected when the brake is off.

Some of us practice regularly with full power loads without the muzzle brake attached - AND we live to tell the tale ...

My AHR-built 600OK weighs 11 pounds. Not only do I practice regularly with it unbraked, BUT I actually carried it all by myself every single day of the DG part of my safari last september. AND I actually hunted with it AND actually took a Cape buffalo with it. Unbraked. 11 pounds.

True, my dad's 585AHR (a necked down 600OK - but basically the same HP) did have the brake on it but he too carried it himself daily. He too took a Cape buffalo with it.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I agree the brake disqualifies the gun as a sporing weapon.

So my 70 year old dad carrying and hunting with his braked 585AHR was being un-sportsman like? (oh and by the way, when we met I specifically asked my PH and the tracker if they would prefer that he remove the brake before we even sighted in. Their response was that it made no difference to them - on or off was no matter)

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Unless you put the brake on, then its not sport. You can fish with dynamite, but its not fishing... It is just killing fish.

I don't understand that at all. Are you now saying that hunting with my unbraked 600OK was unsporting?

There are many others who have and still hunt with their 600 Overkills and similarly large bores. Braked and unbraked.

I agree with Bigdoggy700 - why anyone gets their panties in a knot because someone else likes the 700H&H is beyond me. Probably just jealous that someone has and uses a bigger one than they have or can handle.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Its hard to get a grip on "what is a big gun" .......... Is it bore, it it energy, does it include hunting? .......... some of these so called big guns are just throwing soft balls .......... So, again what is a big gun .................... ?

Strong Cannon Company
BP Breech Loader
1.65" bore
One pound Hotchkiss projectile
Portability: one man can wheel and position it quite easily.

Guaranteed to stop charging animals.


James

quote:

Not all 600 Overkills have muzzle brakes.

yes, I would agree those would be both a big bore and a hunting gun. And only 11 pounds, my hats off to you. Damn. My 505 Gibbs at 11 pounds beats the hold crap out of me.

I have to give due credit, we have some serious big gun shooters here.

As far a hunting with a brake goes, sorry, it can be my mother, your dad, no disrespect intended - but its beyond my definition of sport. Then we do allow cross bow hunting by legit handycap hunters in this state. For every rule there maybe an exception. Or nobody gives a crap what I think anyway. As long as a person is following the rules, it should not bother them what I think. In reality, hunting a 600 with a brake has got to be more difficult than using a 416.

Those removable brakes might be worth consideration, though. Why kill yourself developing loads or zeroing a gun? I think someone made this point when I posted this opinion last year. Yes, I can live and learn

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

I agree with Bigdoggy700 - why anyone gets their panties in a knot because
someone else likes the 700H&H is beyond me. Probably just jealous that someone
has and uses a bigger one than they have or can handle.

CCMDoc,
Hi, I AM ANYONE. I've explained WHY I am no fan of the 700 NE, yet
I am a fan of the 700 HE. In a word it's EGOMANIA. Bill F., EGOMANIAC,
wanted the "biggest". {600 NE} Got told NO and this "hit" on his EGO he
would NOT ACCEPT. SO, like a lot of rich guys, he used his money to re-
define, and recreate "BIGGEST" to sooth that EGO. Rich guys don't accept
being told NO, because they get into a world where they never hear that.
MICHAEL JACKSON had NO ONE tell him that sleeping with little kids
was WRONG, till a certain TV interviewer did just that. M J was INCRED-
ULOUS that some one was really saying to HIM, NO ! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!
I am not saying the immorality of MJ's actions are similar to the actions
BILL F took. NOT AT ALL. I am referring to the EGOMANIA that drives cer-
tain people. And that is what I dislike about the 700 NE. It was the product
of EGOMANIA, wealth driven EGOMANIA. BF did NOT think there was a NEED
for something MORE powerful than a 600 NE. If he thought that he would
have never asked H&H for one. He would have started his request to H&H
with the 700 NE concept. But it is well known that is not what happened.
As I said before, I am a fan of the 700 HE, 8 bore, and 4 bore to name
a few. The 2 bore holds no magic for me, but unlike the 700 NE, the 2
bore was NOT an EGOMANIA driven creation. Those old BP rounds were just
held to a certain velocity and the only way to get more energy was to fire
a heavier projectile. So when some one said the 4 bore was still lacking
at some point, the 2 bore was built up. Rest assured, I AM NOT INTERESTED
in owning nor shooting a 700 NE, and I AM NOT jealous of any one who owns
one or shoots one. IF www.purdey.com GAVE me one I'd sell it to the highest
offer within 30 days in an auction and take the money for hunting AFRICA
up and down, then if money was left hit Alaska and so on. To those who like
the caliber, have your fun! I certainly don't think anything bad of you!
{Unless you are BILL F. } I just will always encourage a guy who is con-
sidering the purchase of a rifle in that caliber, who has NOT necessarily
"fallen in love" with it, but is kicking different ideas around, to choose some-
thing CLASSIC instead of this "monument to one spoiled boy" who, himself,
was the driving force behind said monument!

BIgFive,

I agree with your ideas. Well stated.

If I was going to drop big coin and get a top grade gun - AND IF it was a old style traditional gun, I would choose a historically accurate ctg. That goes for Sharps, Winchester, or a British double.

And, although its none of my bees wax, what others do, I just wonder whats up when I see a Shiloh Sharps in 45/120, Winchester 92 in 45LC or a double in 700.

The thing that gets my undies in a knot is when someone trys to falsify history. As long as everyone is honest, thats great and I reserve the right to shoot or own any gun I can and the same to anyone else - as I know you do too.

I have seen inaccurate stmts regarding 2 bore, 700NE and 500Schuler to name a few. Not in this thread. Lets say, on the web.

BJ5,

what's your position on breast implants?
There's a subject a man can sink his teeth into,eh?

you sound like a bright guy with a good career going back in the Big Apple. Why jack your blood pressure over something this silly? My wife and I have an XK-8 convertible. Speed limit's still 75 mph, just like it is in our Dodge Diesel 3/4 ton. But it's a whole lot more fun taking trips because of the power and comfort, especially with the top down. Same-Same here.

Let folks who can afford them buy and enjoy them; and say thanks for helping expand the envelope. I had the thrill of shooting both of BD700's B-I-G Boomers; the 700 and the Four Bore.
Just crazy! I doubt I will ever be able to afford either, unless I win the Lottery. But, it is pretty cool to have handled and shot both.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

I have to give due credit, we have some serious big gun shooters here.

True, but the guys who are able to shoot these beasts well are the exception not the rule.

The .700ne, .600OK and up are probably pure fun for the owners who can shoot them well. And I would never wish for anyone to have less guns.

But I think time has shown that for the great majority the .600ne is at the outer edge for practical hunting firearms. And by practical hunting firearm I mean - A rifle you can carry all day and shoot well.

Do some guys hunt regularly with these superbores? Yes! But they are few in number when compared to the rest of the hunting world.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
BJ5,

what's your position on breast implants?
There's a subject a man can sink his teeth into,eh?

you sound like a bright guy with a good career going back in the Big Apple. Why jack your blood pressure over something this silly? My wife and I have an XK-8 convertible. Speed limit's still 75 mph, just like it is in our Dodge Diesel 3/4 ton. But it's a whole lot more fun taking trips because of the power and comfort, especially with the top down. Same-Same here.

Let folks who can afford them buy and enjoy them; and say thanks for helping expand the envelope. I had the thrill of shooting both of BD700's B-I-G Boomers; the 700 and the Four Bore.
Just crazy! I doubt I will ever be able to afford either, unless I win the Lottery. But, it is pretty cool to have handled and shot both.

Rich

First two lines had me in stiches RICH! Very sharp wit in deed! As to the rest,

guys, if YOU like it, then HAVE AT IT! To me it's "a hair in my soup". But to YOU
it may be "The Promised Land". ENJOY...

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
BIgFive,

I agree with your ideas. Well stated.

If I was going to drop big coin and get a top grade gun - AND IF it was a old style traditional gun, I would choose a historically accurate ctg. That goes for Sharps, Winchester, or a British double.

And, although its none of my bees wax, what others do, I just wonder whats up when I see a Shiloh Sharps in 45/120, Winchester 92 in 45LC or a double in 700.

The thing that gets my undies in a knot is when someone trys to falsify history. As long as everyone is honest, thats great and I reserve the right to shoot or own any gun I can and the same to anyone else - as I know you do too.

I have seen inaccurate stmts regarding 2 bore, 700NE and 500Schuler to name a few. Not in this thread. Lets say, on the web.

FB, I'm right with you here.

quote:

Originally posted by TwoZero:

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

I have to give due credit, we have some serious big gun shooters here.

True, but the guys who are able to shoot these beasts well are the exception not the rule.

The .700ne, .600OK and up are probably pure fun for the owners who can shoot them well. And I would never wish for anyone to have less guns.

But I think time has shown that for the great majority the .600ne is at the outer edge for practical hunting firearms. And by practical hunting firearm I mean - A rifle you can carry all day and shoot well.

Do some guys hunt regularly with these superbores? Yes! But they are few in number when compared to the rest of the hunting world.

TZ, Dead on.

Guys- If you think a .600NE is the top end of practical, I have a nice Heym .600NE for you to show me just how capable you are and how practical it is!! Its a $15,000 gun built by a fine respected German gunmaker! They know what they are doing! A FINE WEAPON! YOU can TAKE it HUNTING too! Its not that Heavy! I personally LOVE IT!
Have any of you ever shot one. Really, No Make believe now! IT WILL KICK THE SNOT OUT OF YOU! Maybe break your jaw, but minimally you'll have some vivid Bruises and maybe a nice Hematoma. Dont worry the swelling will go down in time!
Dont say I didnt warn you either, but you know better! The .600NE is PRACTICAL!! The Heym doesnt have a break on it so your poor ears wont be hurt too badly by those nasty awful Muzzel Brakes. It has a scope, but even I will stop you from using it as its hard to remove from the skull and its an expensive Swarovski! They said they would no longer honor the warranty because of the blood, skin and hair the last hero left on it!
Drop by LV sometime and I'll be happy to let you Man-Up! You can shoot the same load in the .600OK( which wont hurt you) and then the Heym .600NE. They I'll drive you to the Hospital! My guess is just one shot will do it too! Thats been my experience with others. Ever see Saeeds .577 TREX, Hero videos? Take my word for it. The Heym .600NE is worse! I know, cause I have a .577 TREX.
Following this lesson in Big Bore shooting which I assure you, you'll never forget, perhaps you will reconsider your unfortunate choice of big bores and cartridges!
Remember, my offer stands, you can prove me wrong and prove to all here on AR that the .600NE is practical.-Rob

RGB,

I'd take a bite out of that apple next January at the SHOT Show if the invitation extends all the way north to Idaho. I'll have my PH by AHR by then, Lord willing and the creek don't rise too much, and we can compare notes on the two models.
Maybe I can get Boomie in again, and we can make it a threebie.

Rich

Would be fun to get some 600 NE double vids posted

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Would be fun to get some 600 NE double vids posted

RGB said NOTHING about a DOUBLE.

I suspect his is a bolt action rifle by HEYM.

On the 600NE, Robgunbuilder:

quote:

IT WILL KICK THE SNOT OUT OF YOU! Maybe break your jaw, but minimally you'll have some vivid Bruises and maybe a nice Hematoma.

And I agree:

quote:

It seems to have pushed the practical envelope of what worked and I would say it was not a successful design

And, again, my 2c
The 577NE worked, for the few who could handle it. As a double in the old days or equivalent load in a bolt today. This, I expect, is the wild and wolly upper limit for an un braked hunting rifle, for the upper 1% of mankind.

In a modern bolt, the 577trex, Nyanti, 585HE or 577BME can all be loaded to 2100fps (elephant). The later two can be built on a CZ550 with 3 or 4 down. None should require a brake with 2100fps +/- hunting loads.

The only one I found is this rifle by Ziegenhahn

http://www.ziegenhahn.de/en/pr...-five-doppelbuechse/

Well,my turn...I Love BIG Breast Implants,but I also Love Big real ones too!
I also love Classic 600 Doubles(had one) and I love the Nonclassic 600 Overkill and the 700 too! I also like Jag Convertibles(had 3) and the girls do too Being single all these years got my EGO out of wack,I do admit
All of you above me have valid points and that is fine,but I just want to get in on the action too.....As far as practical goes,if that was the main goal,we wouldn't need V8s or even 458s..Its just fun to be different Now for Recoil,caliber is just part of it...stock design and whether your sitting on a bench or facing a Nasty Pachaderm makes all the differnce,at least to me!I will add this...a Measly 300 Win Mag on the Bench kicks more to ME than a 600 Overkill in the field!...Who's Next?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Would be fun to get some 600 NE double vids posted

Boomstick,I Really wish I had one of my 600NE Double.That SOB hurt,not just my shoulder,but my face too!Damn thing made me bleed as my right hand slipped and punched my cheek bone and at the same time hit the lever and open the action,all in a nano second..Nosebleed too .I then got a headache...10 min later,I reshot it,but was more prepared,but still a handfull! Soon thereafter,a Alaskan Collector owned it! Good Riddens!