First, let me explain the reason for the question, it might make more sense that way.

I'm about to make the final decision on the cal. of the bigger of the two of rifles to be made on M98 actions.

Either a .375 H&H or .404 Jeffery.

Logically the .375 is probably the most practical choice. But the problem is thanks AR I have a bad case of the Jeffery bug!

I haven't done much big bore shooting yet and want to make sure I enjoy level recoil that the 404 Jeffery will be at.
I'm not worried I'll drop the gun or anything, just that it is fun to shoot and doesn't bounce me around enough to take the fun out of it.

So, the question:
If I were to pick up a CZ in .416 Rigby and use Iron sights (no scope to keep the weight down) and load it to around 2300fps with 400gn bullets.

Would that APPROXIMATE the recoil of a 9 or 9.5 lb .404 Jeffery with 400gn bullets at 2300 to 2350fps.

I understand the .416 Rigby uses a bit more powder and that will increase the recoil some in a direct apples to apples comparison. I'm just wanting to get reasonably close to the recoil level and the impulse or speed of the recoil.

I don't want to just borrow a gun to shoot a few times. I want to shoot it a lot in field conditions and see how I like it.

I don't think I'll have any problem but before I spend the money for a custom rifle in .404 Jeffery, I would make sure.Plus it will give me a gun to play with while it's being made.

So, would the recoil be similar?

Allen

I was pondering a similar question last week. The following references may be helpful:

AR Recoil Table

Chuck Hawks Recoil Table

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that people keep asking this every few days.

http://huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

hop on a plane and come to houston on march 9th, and shoot them ALL ..

you can load down the 416 rigby to 2250 fps, and have the same BASIC amount of recoil ... oh, it will be a little more due to ejecta, but I bet there's a couple guys with 404s and 416s at the houston DRSS&ARBBA shoot on the 9th.

the 404, at 2250 in the same weight gun, is for all intents and purposes, the same recoil as a 375..

jeffe

jeffesso thanks,

That's what I was understanding from reading old posts.

As long as they recoil similar that's all I wanted to confirm.

On a different .404 note, does anyone know how many rounds a M98 with a drop magazine box holds down? With an English style stock ie. short forearm (8.5") and tapered H&H style?

Will it hold 4 down or can it be modified to.

Allen

i have a 404 cz and a 416 rigby made by dakota.Recoil is less on my 404. from the bench i can shoot about 3 5shot groups before i feel like i might start getting the flinches i can shoot about 2 with the rigby. From sticks i can shoot them both alot without a problem.i just got back from africa and used the 404 on everything from baboon to giant eland and recoil was non existant. you will love either one. my 404 cz was made by AHR and it holds 5 down

Hell my wife shoots a 375H&H and 416 Rigby. She actually prefers the 416 Rigby. She has also shot a 470NE. She is 5'8" and 130 pounds.

Here is the deal, she isn't scared of them (she doesn't know that she should be, so it's not an issue). We limit her bench shooting to 6-7 times per session and she doesn't (just like you won't) even notice the recoil when shooting at game.

She practices (trigger control, breathing, etc.) with a .223 and a 7mmRemMag.

Recoil is about equal, and it depends on how you load them...You can load a 416 Rigby to 2700 FPS or better and it is going to out kick a 404 but not by much...You can load a 404 to about 2653 FPS in a long tube...

I loaded my 404s and my 416 Rigby or Rem to 2400 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet..That is a proven combo for most big game and a mild enough load in them all to keep you out of trouble.

A Mauser 98 with a regular custom drop box will hold 4 down and one in the hole...It can be modified to hold 5 down and one in the hole, but it's hardly worth the cost. A CZ will hold 5 down and one in the hole as it comes from the factory, but I think the CZ is a bulky gun no matter what you do to it and prefer the Mauser, others do not.

i have both, and the 416 is half a pound heavier; stock dimensions are exactly the same, fitted to me; if there is a difference in felt recoil, i cannot tell,recoil calculators notwithstanding!

Thanks Ray,

A CZ .416 Rigby is easy to get, as in I don't have to have it built or converted and fairly inexpensive to buy.especially if I can find a used one.

I can load it light to moderate and make sure I know what I think I know about recoil.Between 2200 to 2350 fps.

I just wanted to make sure that the 404 Jeffery & .416 Rigby would have similar recoil loaded to the velocities.I thought they would. But I thought other things and been wrong be so... I thought I'd ask.

It's peace of mind when spending a fair bit of money on a custom rifle. This way the .416 will give me something to play with while waiting on the 404 to be built.

That's great if I can get 4 down and one in the tube with a drop box mag on a M98. That's all I'm looking for.

Indlovu, that's what I mean, real world felt recoil comparison is close enough judge my recoil tolerance fun factor.

Allen

Allen,

PM me in the morning, I live in Nampa. I have a 416 Rigby you can test drive.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Allen,
If the recoil is to brutal at 2300, just load it down to 2150, as was the original loading. Or use a 350 grs bullet.

Allen,

FWIW, I think the whole recoil thing is typically blown out of proportion. I've always been underwhelmed by the recoil of heavy rifles. It can be stout, that's for sure, but by no means "shoulder-crushing." The first time I fired a 416 Rigby, you couldn't wipe the smile off my face in a hundred years! People have a tendency to get all worked up over the hype, and psych themselves out.

The best ways to figure out recoil are to a) test out someone else's rifle, as Rich has offered, or b) estimate it based on rifles you already have. That's what I did when buying a new hard(er) kicker. Take the recoil of a rifle you already own and see if you can approximate it.

The other solution to heavy recoil is to simply load the round down, as others have stated. You could take the Rigby/Jeffery down to 2100-2200fps and have a pussycat. Either way, it's pretty damn fun once you start.

In theory the larger diameter round will recoil less for the approximate same performance - all other factors being equal - as it has the bigger base area bullet.

Same reason a 150 grain in a 30-06 feels more comfortable than the same in a 270.

But I think that choosing a gun on recoil is a little odd. Shouldn't you be choosing it on what the intended use is? Thus for me, in UK, the 270 is preferred to the 30-06.

I have a Heym bolt in 404 Jeff that weighs in the upper 10# region and is a baby at 2300 fps with 400 gr bullets. I can't speak about the Rigby as it's one of the few calibers I haven't shot....but the Jeff in my Heym is easy to shoot.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Enfieldspares,
I respectfully disagree, I wish more of our clients would choose a rifle based on their recoil tolerances...I would rather a client used a 300 Win. with 220 gr. bullets on buffalo if he could not shoot a .338 or .375 without flinching..If more hunters would know their recoil limitations and forget the macho image that goes with the big bores, it would be a better hunt....If you can shoot the big bores then more power to you, but if you can't then be smart enough to admit it, what difference does it make anyway...all that is perception on most folks part....

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Enfieldspares,
I respectfully disagree, I wish more of our clients would choose a rifle based on their recoil tolerances...I would rather a client used a 300 Win. with 220 gr. bullets on buffalo if he could not shoot a .338 or .375 without flinching..If more hunters would know their recoil limitations and forget the macho image that goes with the big bores, it would be a better hunt....If you can shoot the big bores then more power to you, but if you can't then be smart enough to admit it, what difference does it make anyway...all that is perception on most folks part....

Well put!

The 425 Fossdal will fill the bolt action light recoil DG niche quite well

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
i have both, and the 416 is half a pound heavier; stock dimensions are exactly the same, fitted to me; if there is a difference in felt recoil, i cannot tell,recoil calculators notwithstanding!

I am surprised nobody asked you about those two beautiful rifles, so I am going to.

Who made them, and what actions were used, and what other components were used. They really look nice!!!!!!!!

Thanks! the top rifle was made by Jim Brockman on a mauser 98 action, 404. the bottom one was made by kevin healy of Blomfontein Custom Rifles, SA, on a Vektor action, 416.