I'm new to this forum and kind of need some help from you experts. First off has anyone tried the 404 Dakota? I'm building a new rifle, and am between a 416 Taylor or a 404 Dakota. I would appreciate any help I can get. Which one would be the best for the hard to knock down game?

Bigger is better, so the .404 hav emy vote. Furthermore, it will give you 2400 with 400 grs bullet at lower preassures. Same magazine capasity, and Hornady are making cheap bullets for the .404, I understand.
And, dammit - it's a .404!!

and I'll got the other way...

the 404 at spec load is 400 at 2200-2250

the taylor can be loaded to exactly the same spec...

the taylor is way way cheaper for brass, bullets, and, most importantly the bottommetal (couple hundred for box and smithing for a 404)

Then again, I would actually do the 416 AR

jeffe

I have a 416 taylor it is a very easy round to work with.

Shooting game with the 404 or the 416 you well not see the differants.

I figured that when Dakota came out with the 404 that they would test that round in Africa. I can't find anything on it, other then the load data. The 416 Taylor should be a great round based on the 458 win mag round.

ooooh!

you walked into this one...

quote:

I would actually do the 416 AR

416taylor+404 dakota

you can trust jeffeosso is one smart cookie...

in a standard length action the 416 a.r will be best on your parameters i.m.o....do a search on the a.r. rounds...

cheapest...416 taylor
better 416 a.r.

if you want jeffeosso can do a 404 a.r. if you convince him if the .007 matters to you but i cannot speak for him. money has a stange affect on peoples willingness

here ye here ye....

if you want another 150 fps on the taylor than do the 416 a.r. with little smithing involved

to each his own...madness

Okay you got me interested and looking at the 416 a.r. Can you point me to some specks on the round?

jeffe...

IHE
the ar rounds, which will be firing in the next 10-12 days, are shortened improved RUM cases designed to fit in a standard length (3.35") action (think rebarrel of 7 rem)

the 416 should be a 400 at 2400
458 500 at 2200
470 500 at 2200

at moderate pressure

jeffe

Sounds like this could be some kind of an awsome round! Guess I will have to wait to see how this turns out then. Thanks for the update.

jeffe...does shooting an a.r. get you in the bubbas???

maybe you will have to make a sub-catagory, kinda like a purgatory until they have proved worthiness. band of bubba-be's?

quote:

Originally posted by I Hunt Elk:
I figured that when Dakota came out with the 404 that they would test that round in Africa. I can't find anything on it, other then the load data. The 416 Taylor should be a great round based on the 458 win mag round.

Charlie Kokesh, CEO of Dakota, actually has been featured (in the _Dakota_ "The News from Sturgis" magazine) posing with dead animals in Africa, taken with his .404 Dakota (a takedown with .330 Dakota barrel too).

Dakota told me that the .404 Dakota got started when a customer wildcatted the .375 Dakota, they liked the idea and ran with it.

They haven't run very far, and now have dropped back to punt with the .423 Dakota-Lapua coming up next.

We should see dead animal pictures of Charlie with the .423 Dakota-Lapua next.

I get over 2400 fps with the .416/400gr .416 Taylor in a 26" barrel.

The .404 Dakota advertised 2400 fps with 400 grainers.

The .423 Dakota-Lapua is advertised at 2450 fps with 400 grainers, at lower pressures.

I am skipping over the .404 Dakota and the .423 Dakota-Lapua and building my own .423 Lapua (.423 Simba) that is a straight neck-up of the .338 Lapua Magnum with no other changes, the way it ought to be.

It will be interesting to see how Dakota screws it up. I am at least using one of their 76 African actions for my rifle.

Thanks Rip for the info. I have both the 330 & the 375 Dakotas, built on the Daly mauser actions. They have both proven to be very very accurate with 28" barrels. That's why I was wondering about the 404. I see the 404 and the 416 dakota advertised, but you don't really hear anything about them. That's why I was interested in the 416 taylor. You can build it on a standard action, and at 2400fps with a 400grn bullet,that's some serious knock down power.

I Hunt elk

If you want to use a belted Mag case and .423 bullet diameter the go with the 425 Express.
This is an excellent cartridge.

James

rip...your the boss but reloader mag says 2300fps with 400gr is max

http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/

click on reloader mag loading info

the 416 a.r. will be better notwithstanding dead horse issues.

the taylor is good but the a.r. will either have less preasure or 150 more f.p.s.

rumor has it the 423 dakota does not live up to the 2400 fps

I was in process of assembling a 404 Dakota (or having others do it for me).

Then, I called Dakota arms, and they wouldn't tell me about any place where I could rent a reamer. They did tell me the reamers were out there, but that "we're in the business of selling rifles, not helping you make your own". I own a Model 10 Dakota, and another custom Mauser in 300 Dakota.

I will never buy another product from Dakota Arms as long as I live.

I'm in the business of enjoying life, not telling people to piss up a rope.

Garrett

Garrett my hats off to you. I was given the same support from them in the 330 & the 375 when I contacted them. They would be glad to sell me one for 3 to 7 thousand dollars. I'm not a wealthy person so that was out of the question. I'm stuck with a couple of mausers in those calibers. They are every bit as accurate if not more than the dakotas.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rip...your the boss but reloader mag says 2300fps with 400gr is max

http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/

click on reloader mag loading info

the 416 a.r. will be better notwithstanding dead horse issues.

the taylor is good but the a.r. will either have less preasure or 150 more f.p.s.

rumor has it the 423 dakota does not live up to the 2400 fps

Boomer,
That link is old hat to me, I have it filed away on paper in the "archives" and I guarantee the .416 Taylor with a 26" barrel will easily exceed 2400 fps with 400 grain Hornady RNSP bullets using 75 grains of RL-15, Remington .458 mag brass (or QualCart headstamped stuff, which I think they made from blank Remington basic brass), and F215 primer. No pressure problems in my rifle, and I think that my 14" twist Shilen stainless barrel on a Ruger Mark II M77 is nothing special.

If the .423 Dakota-Lapua cannot exceed 2400 fpswith a 400 grainer, then they must have shortened it down to way less than 2.5" case.

Boomer, cite your sources or your credentials as TA!/VPM at HA!/DOA are in jeopardy!

Dakota knows how to screw things up with selective customer service. Hard to believe they would screw up a .423 Lapua that badly.

My .423 Lapua should be knocking on the door of .416 Weatherby ballistics if I wanted it to, which I don't.

quote:

Originally posted by N. Garrett:
I was in process of assembling a 404 Dakota (or having others do it for me).

Then, I called Dakota arms, and they wouldn't tell me about any place where I could rent a reamer. They did tell me the reamers were out there, but that "we're in the business of selling rifles, not helping you make your own". I own a Model 10 Dakota, and another custom Mauser in 300 Dakota.

I will never buy another product from Dakota Arms as long as I live.

I'm in the business of enjoying life, not telling people to piss up a rope.

Garrett

N. and I.,
Me three!
I actually tried to order .423 Dakota-Lapua rifle number three. Charlie and his minion have the first two.

Problem is that I wanted no wood, just a synthetic stock with no "wood upgrade" to tack onto the price. The minion took my order and said he would write it up and get back to me.

He never did.

I actually talked to Charlie Kokesh on the telephone and asked him how long the case of the .423 Dakota-Lapua was, and he said he couldn't remember ... his pet project ... he is either of low IQ or dishonest in that CASE.

Charlie referred me to the minion for the case length spec and to take my order. You guessed it, the minion owned rifle number two in .423 Dakota-Lapua, and he did not know how long the case was.

They are just being secretive. And I don't care anymore.
I bought a Dakota 76 African action from Brownells, for my .423 Simba/.423 Lapua-Unadulterated.

I have a Prechtl-actioned SIGArms Magnum Mauser 98 in .450 Dakota that I bought from Cabela's, and I have a .416 Dakota built from a Winchester .300 RUM M70.

That is all the ACTION I want from Dakota.

When I was thinking about the 300 Dakota years ago, I called Dakota Arms and spoke to their 'smith, Ward Dobler.
He was as friendly and as helpful as could be.

John Westrom did the FN action, and Ward chambered it for about $75.
Ward chambered my 404 Jeffery in 1998 also; did a great job (and even slicked up the action for me, without me asking.....as Wink here about it, he owns it now).

They have come a long way from the friendly company I used to know back in '92, when I purchased my Model 10.

Garrett

The 416 Howell, essentially a 423 Dakota but with more taper and less frontal area, can do 400/2400. Take out some taper and increase the caliber, and there's no way the 423 Dakota doesn't get 2400.
I H E, you say you're new to this forum, so let me assume you may be new in other ways, and suggest you consider a factory round. If you're just getting into rifles, and imagining a big bore, it's easy to get really farout. A 416 Remington or 458 Winchester is big stuff (when you aren't hanging around DG hunters) and much easier/cheaper to find reloading equipment for. A 375 RUM might be worth looking at, if you want some serious horsepower with heavy bullets.
But if you're talking about elk (which can be hard to put down if you're shooting with a 6mm Swede from 300yd and don't hit them right) then a 338 Winchester is you're best answer. Available as a chambering in a plethora of rifles, tons of load data, large array of bullets, and it is definitely - by all accounts - big enough. And, assuming a similar gun weight and setup, it won't beat you up like a 416, etc., will so you'll practice more.
And THAT is what takes care of the hard-to-put-down stuff!

quote:

Boomer, cite your sources or your credentials as TA!/VPM at HA!/DOA are in jeopardy!

rip...i will have to do some checking but i was inquiring about the 423 dakota on the blr and someone posted that it does not do posted velocities...will have to get back to you...

rip...my 1% in ha!/doa is my retirement fund, i am counting on that money so dont take that away

i dont doubt your 2400 though

if anyone does not like the ha!/doa line they can kiss my

o.k. just had to use that new one

Don't worry Boomer, your position is secure.

The joke about the rebated bumper on the car being flung by the "tree bucket" was proof enough of your talent.

I really, really gotta quit goofing off now.

quote:

it's easy to get really farout. A 416 Remington or 458 Winchester is big stuff (when you aren't hanging around DG hunters) and much easier/cheaper to find reloading equipment for. A 375 RUM might be worth looking at, if you want some serious horsepower with heavy bullets.

Words of wisdom here. I went to a gunshow, and two sporting goods stores this weekend and had my eye specifically open for big bore components. The show had one ( exactly ) box of 458 Win Mag, which I didn't buy, the price was right but the ammo was old and it was a 500 gr, and a I just couldn't see paying $35.00 for brass.

Ok gunshow was a strike out so I head to Black Sheep which is pretty well stocked on ammo and reloading goodies. They had exactly 2 ea 458 diameter bullets for the 458 Win Mag. 400 gr trophy bonded, and 500 gr Barnes "X" bullets. They had exactly two sets of dies for the 458, and no brass. Ok I headed to the ammo counter, NO 458 Win Mag.

The other sporting goods store had nothing, zip.

When the 458 Win Mag is that scarce ( yes I know its easy to mail order ), but .423 stuff with any availability? Dream on. Its available mail order, bullets and brass are limited even there, and cha-ching when the cash register runs up the totals.

I am not trying to be doom and gloom here but I had some 458 brass and was hoping of getting some loaded up for a new to me rifle this next week, isn't going to happen, I guess I will be ordering this week instead. If 45 cal and 458 mag stuff isn't carried what odds do you figure you will ever see the .423 unless you order it.

Thanks guys for all the enfo on the big bores. After all the good advice from the experts on the guns and caliber's that you would build. I called my barrel maker whom is the one that built my Dakota barrels, and he is building the 416 Taylor barrel for me. 26"ss,1x12 twist,open sites with a side mount for a 1 1/2 x 6 x 42mm scope. I no I can go to the dark continent and knock a buffalo on his butt with that much horse power. If I can't and don't return. Then I guess retirement was a kick in the ass, I should of stayed home and played with the ole lady. Yeap that's one hard decision for me to make. I think I would go after buffalo with a baseball bat. Thanks guys.....BFN

thanks for the reply on your decision...remember if you want more boom to go to the a.r.....keep tabs on jeffeossos posts...p.s. he wont charge for use of the reamer and the conversion is not that hard from a taylor but post pics when it is done and do a search here on past posts and you will get lots of load data for the taylor