The Accurate Reloading Forums
pics added - 500 AR - revisited
15 February 2007, 23:57
.366torquepics added - 500 AR - revisited
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
heh... he said "how long a throat you want" to me
enough for this, maybe?
quote:
50 Caliber
Diameter Weight Description S.D. B.C. CAT#
.510" 647gr. "X" BT .355 .592 51064
06 April 2007, 02:15
jeffeosso4-5-07 update
Called Manson today
Gages are done, chamber reamer is done, die reamer is 2 weeks or so out.
Called Bauska today...
barrel is "couple weeks" ... i've been "couple weeks" since november!!!
jeffe
06 April 2007, 11:55
boom stickgood stuff el jeffe
19 April 2007, 04:42
jeffeossoi have, in my grubby paws, a
500 AR chamber reamer
500 AR resizer reamer
500 AR go gauge
500 AR no go gauge
no barrel YET
dang, bauska is slow
RNS
19 April 2007, 06:43
boom stickwoooo hoooo!
19 April 2007, 06:51
boom stickwont be long before we see the "mean little bastard" fire formed...
19 April 2007, 07:08
.366torqueel jeffe wrote:
quote:
on a milsurp action, one would probably need to do a single stck... GOOD NEWS, though, it COULD be a center feed stagger, due to x57 or -06 geometery
on a ruger, you could cut down a 416 rigby box and stagger, i THINK.
but, in any event, at least 2 down in a "Stock" stock...
it is a work in progress
the boom wrote:
quote:
damn i am excited about this one...
a single stack m98 50 cal pea shooter
el jeffe:
How long of a barrel? Could you supply a single stack magazine for a '98 or a P14 (and/or will do)? This cart has my interest piqued the most of the AR line.
I'm thinking 338 Lapua cases ( strength, longevity, yada yada).
19 April 2007, 08:39
.366torqueBarnes:
500 Nitro
Diameter] Weight] Description] S.D.] B.C.] CAT#
NEW .509" ] 570 gr] TSX FB ] .314] .369] 50958
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodliegh:
500 Jeffery .510"
No./Box ] SD BC Rec. Impact BulletLength(")
Velocity(fps)
535gr RN SN 25] .294] .350] 1800-2200 1.199
535gr PP SN 25] .294] .310] 1800-2200 1.158
535gr FMJ 25] .294] .340] 1.267
600gr PP SN 25] .330] .350] 1800-2250 1.268
600gr FMJ 25] .330] .355] 1.396
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hawk Bullets:
.50 cal. (.510 dia.)
Round Nose
350 grains x .035 RN...........$37.50
400 grains x .035 RN...........$40.50
425 grains x .050 RN...........$53.50 c4
500 grains x .035 RN...........$43.50
500 grains x .050 RN...........$56.50
535 grains x .065 RN...........$78.00 c2
550 grains x .050 RN..........$59.50 c3
570 grains x .035 RN..........$47.50 c3
570 grains x .050 RN..........$62.50 c3
570 grains x .065 RN..........$80.00 c3
600 grains x .035 RN..........$49.50
600 grains x .055 RN..........$61.50 c2
Flat Points
350 grains x .025 FP...........$35.00
350 grains x .035 FP...........$36.50
425 grains x .025 FP..........$37.50 c4
450 grains x .025 FP...........$38.50 c4
450 grains x .035 FP...........$35.00
Hollow Points
300 grains x .025 HP...........$35.50
450 grains x .025 HP...........$38.00 c4
Spitzers
500 grains x .035 SPZ.........$59.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodiak:
500 (.510)
grn BC] SD]
FN 450 0.165] 0.2472
19 April 2007, 19:26
jeffeossoI am going to use a 23" tube. i hope it's going to work!
thanks for the feedback, guys
19 April 2007, 19:31
gixxerYou know, its a good thing I did not buy a barrel yet for what would have been my 470 AR. This would be much more interesting! Those 450gr FP Hawk grenades look pretty tempting. Jeffe, you never did mention what twist you were using. Checking the Pac Nor site they offer 9" and 14" 8 groove, and 18" and 20" 6 groove. What would you use?
19 April 2007, 22:46
boom stickquote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
revised 2-1-07
Okay,
(ring on nose of left bullet is from the collet bullet puller)
So I have to thank Rich and Lawndart for the base brass. Funny enough, the 338 Lapua and 416 basic (LD and ISS) measure DARN CLOSE to the same neck thickness
I am thinking a 1" leade, to allow milsurp bullets
firstly, these are ROUGH formed, literally using my 500 jeffe dies, and yeah, they aren't exactly the same
second, this is with a .561 shoulder, (as formed) final will have a .577 shoulder, or MORE than 25% improvement in headspace..
third, the base diameter on Rich's cases are right at .586 +/- .0005
cases weight 322.00gr, and as drawn, that makes them 131 gross water capacity... making it ~1% smaller than the 495 A2, which means 1.25% LESS velocity than the 495A2, at the same pressures... (.495 SAYS it runs a 600gr at 2360.. okay, if you believe that, then the 500 AR will do that at 2350ish)
(the 500 a2 has 143gr)
which I don't expect to run at those pressures
2.65" case, 3.4 OAL MAX
in lower pics with 2.55" case, now obsolete (535gr hawk schuler bullet and 600gr RN) and made up some 3.35 dummies.
23" barrel, 57,500 PSI
130.94gr water capacity
109.7gr H2O useable
3.4"
535gr woodliegh
QL - 2431fps
Expectation 2395fps
23" barrel, 57,500 PSI
130.94gr water capacity
104.7gr H2O useable
3.4"
570gr woodliegh
QL - 2331fps
Expectation 2295fps
23" barrel, 57,500 PSI
130.94gr water capacity
104.2gr H2O useable
3.4"
600gr woodliegh
QL - 2266fps
Expectation 2215
23" barrel, 57,500 PSI
130.94gr water capacity
115.4gr H2O useable
3.4"
535 cast
QL - 2457fps
Expectation 2400 MAX 2100 easy
23" barrel, 57,500 PSI
130.94gr water capacity
105.1gr H2O useable
3.4"
535 hawk schuler bullet
QL - 2410fps
Expectation 2375
24" barrel, add ~20 FPS
for what it's worth, i can put 3 in a straighten 1917 and feeding will be WAY less hassle than any of the other 500s.
so, if i get 2150 with a 600, I am running with a 500 NE in a 9.5# bolt gun, 92ft-lb recoil, and very low (for a bolt gun) pressures...
want to be that bet I run 535 casts at 2300 QUITE a bit?
thought we needed to see the line up again...
i am in the opinion of a 600 grain .510 @ 2300 is ENOUGH...
it is the sensable 500 jeffery imho
19 April 2007, 23:42
jeffeossoon order, 1:10 twist from Bauska..., just to "see"...
as my 500 jeffe is 1:18 and my (to be) 510 wells is 1:15, i figured this would be interestined to test some of MY penetration theories (about how a bullet goes through test media) out on.
jeffe
20 April 2007, 00:54
boom stickthe center is a 458 cousin of the 500 a.r.. switch barrel?
left to right 458 b.s. 2.5", 458 b.s. 2.65" (458-338 lapua. both just a neck up and trim) and 458-404 (just a neck up and trim @ 2.65", 20 thou shoulders)
20 April 2007, 16:29
fireball168quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I am thinking a 1" leade, to allow milsurp bullets
I'll contribute to the reamer fund if we stick to this(kind of like the parallel neck too).
20 April 2007, 16:40
jeffeossoFB,
reamer is home already
jeffe
20 April 2007, 20:38
jeffeossoWell,
last night I made a resizing die and made some dummies.
I REALLY NEED SOME JAMISON RIGBY BASICafter careful measurements for magazine, the rear is 1.09 and the shoulder is 1.07, (3 rounds, boudn together, etc)...
which means you probably can not get a proper staggerfeeding on a mauser, but you can easily on an enfield.
jeffe
22 April 2007, 04:45
Idaho Sharpshooterfound four new cases, rummaging around in the shop.
Check your Email hoss!
Rich
DRSS
17 June 2007, 18:43
jeffeossoThings are moving at glacieral speed here...
had to second source the barrel, as bauska is taking forver...
the barrel will be 24", to start. Going to put on a plain jane quarter sawn piece of cali-english
resizing die is done, will need to make a seater, but the 500 Jeffe seater actually works fine for this
waiting on jamison to make some rigby basic, as I have an order in for a couple hundred, waiting on the production run
jeffe
18 June 2007, 10:50
boom stickthought this was interesting...
http://www.empirerifles.com/505%20Empire.htmEMPIRE ANNOUNCES THE NEW .505 EMPIRE
Empire Rifles has a well established reputation as a versatile maker with several specialties, one of which is big bore rifles. As Terry Wieland recently pointed out in RifleShooter Magazine (Nov/Dec 2006, p. 40), Empire Rifles makes a significant number of .50 caliber dangerous game rifles in .500 Jeffery. Terry alludes to a new cartridge from Empire Rifles. . .
“If one were setting out today to design the perfect .500 caliber bolt action cartridge, I would vote for a scaled-up .458 Lott based on the .378 Weatherby Case. . . You want a bolt action .500 to match the power of the double-rifle .500 Nitro Express: a 570 grain bullet at 2,100 fps. If a rifle will do that, it’s a winner.â€
Existing .500 cartridges have a couple of drawbacks, some real, some imagined. The drawback of the .505 Gibbs is it’s sheer size, which requires an extra long 3.9†action and a fat .750 diameter bolt. Moreover, many hunters are concerned about the rebated rim on the .500 Jeffery --a concern I do not share. What began as a simple conversation about the .505 Gibbs evolved into the design of the .505 Empire, delivering .505 Gibbs velocities in a package fitting neatly into Empire’s Mauser actions. Excellent bullets are available from several makers, notably Barnes and Woodleigh.
From Left: .505 Gibbs, .500 Jeffery, .505 Empire, .458 Lott.
The .505 Empire launches a 600 grain bullet at 2,150 fps for a TKO of 93.06 –slightly ahead of the redoubtable .500 NE
The cartridge design is simple: Weatherby magnum brass, straight taper to .505 Caliber, with a 3.6†COL. Fits in the Empire 98L and 98S actions with their 0.700 diameter bolts. Although the cartridge achieves 2,250 fps with a 600 grain bullet, we load it down to 2,150 fps, generally considered the ideal velocity for a stopping rifle, and within the recommended impact velocity for the Woodleigh bullet. This equals the velocity of the renowned 500 NE (3â€) with 30 more grains of bullet weight.
While the .505 Gibbs was traditionally loaded with 525 grain bullets, the caliber comes into its own with a 600 grain bullet at moderate velocity. Like the .505 Gibbs, the .505 Empire will drive the lighter 525 grain bullets close to 2,400 fps.
The 600 grain bullet at 2,150 fps yields momentum of 129 lbs/ft and a Taylor Knock Out value of 93.06 –values which are significantly higher than the excellent .458 Lott, and in the good company of the .500 Jeffery, the .505 Gibbs, and the .500 NE. I put little stock in kinetic energy, but for those who do this cartridge generates 6,158 lbs. Both hunting ammunition and low velocity (read low recoil) practice loads will be available from Superior Ammunition. I am looking forward to using the .505 Empire on Cape Buffalo next Summer! Please call George on 603.469.3152 to discuss this exciting new cartridge.
18 June 2007, 15:37
Bent FossdalI wonder what made them go with the .505 in stead of the .510............??
Bent Fossdal
Reiso
5685 Uggdal
Norway
18 June 2007, 15:47
fireball168If you're in a real pinch for a barrel...
Brux Stainless
1/10 twist
Savage Varmint Contour
There was some miscommunication, it got cut for a Savage Varmint contour instead of a Remington Varmint.
Was going to send it back for recontouring and relapping, but if you're itching for a barrel....
19 June 2007, 00:28
Canuckquote:
Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
I wonder what made them go with the .505 in stead of the .510............??
I don' get it at all. Isn't it just a .505 version of the 500 A-square???
If so, they are also selling it a bit short on velocity too.
Canuck
19 June 2007, 02:00
boom stickit is shorter to fit in a mauser
19 June 2007, 03:16
jeffeossoIt is NOT a .495 or .500 A2, then, is it?
30 June 2007, 05:45
jeffeossoupdate -
first 500 AR is barrel and chambered.. i'll either stick in a throwaway stock or start one for it tomorrow....
fire forming soon!!
30 June 2007, 10:30
boom stickwooo hooo!
el jeffe...
on a ruger donor what is the cheapest 500 a.r. that can be built? in other words for on the cheap how cheap can it be done within reason?
not that i will need one with my mini mbogo
04 August 2007, 21:48
jeffeossoHeaded to go fireform some 500 AR brass... I have a mixed bag... some jamison, some norma, some hornady 416 rigby and some 338 lapua norma... The unformed jamisons I got from Rich are my feeding testers right now...
jeffe
04 August 2007, 21:52
boom stickquote:
wooo hooo!
05 August 2007, 00:27
.366torqueExcellent work!
05 August 2007, 01:06
jeffeossoi used 25gr of bullseye, a 12ga patch, and a spent 30/30 case (for the 416s)
Results
Jamison 416 Rigby -
annealed
very good - no case loss
Norma 416 Rigby -
annealed
very good - no case loss
Hornady 416 Rigby
NOT annealed - should have
good to very good - no case loss, but 3 pieces tore brass at the case mouth due to chamber.
Normal 338 Lapua
Just didn't work -- no case loss, but no formed cases.. waws kind of funny looking, th neck formed a CONE
I am going to be trying more bullseye in the future... and lathe turn 600gr .510 bullets to have a .416 shank
i might actually load and shoot some cast loads tomorrow, and will have the actual case capacity
Thanks jeffeosso.
Annealing is very important, good point.
Anneal before necking up and after necking down?
Are you ready to "go to bat" in case the Idaho Zephyr gets incensed by this thread?
05 August 2007, 02:12
gixxercant wait till this one gets going. I was patiently waiting for the funds to get my own 475 then after I am ready to start spending money, you started on this! Visions of STOMPED piggies dance in my head...
05 August 2007, 02:51
jeffeosso130.9 to 131.7gr, norma, hornady, and jamison...
we'll call it 131 gr nominal water capacity...
if quickload is to even remotely be believe, from what it can do at 3.4, with a 24" barrel
ql says 2280 with a 600gr woodleigh soft... bet we see 2150 NO Problem, 55,000psi
says nearly 2470 with 535s, bet it hits the 2350 i want, no problem....
okay, here it is, the smallest "real" .510 !!
05 August 2007, 05:20
Idaho Sharpshooterrip-off,
can't read either can you? Check the post where Jeffe says he got some Mast/Jamison Rigby cylindrical from me in late April. Dork!
You are so envious of a country tinkerer and so ill mannered that it permeates you every post. I do have to say I am flattered that you feel so threatened in your self-appointed guru to the wildcat masses here that you need to attack me with every post.
You being such a big man about town and all, I don't understand why you didn't provide Jeffe with a case or so out of your brass warehouse?
Lucky, some of us do have the stuff you dream about...isn't it?
Let me know if you need some more Jeffe.
Rich
DRSS
05 August 2007, 05:32
boom stickpics please...
05 August 2007, 05:43
boom stickjeffe...maybe for hunting loads you should keep the velocity down to 1600 fps
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
05 August 2007, 05:45
KMuleinAK
bad bad boomie
Hear and forget. See and remember. Do and understand.
05 August 2007, 10:34
.366torquequote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i used 25gr of bullseye, a 12ga patch, and a spent 30/30 case (for the 416s)
Normal 338 Lapua
Just didn't work -- no case loss, but no formed cases.. waws kind of funny looking, th neck formed a CONE
OH WOW!! After they're formed and the case mouths annealed properly a hundred rounds should become heirlooms!
06 August 2007, 01:33
jeffeossoOKay, i've got several loaded cases, with 81 gr of h414 sitting under some 600gr cast bullets...
and, fitting enough, i got the casts from Paul
Rich, and JC, thanks for the cases.. you guys have really helped this little project along...
I might go actualy SHOOT this thing... but my jaw is actually still hurting from surgery. ....
ah. well, and the mead is coming along very well!!
jeffe