Hi there,

What was the final conclusion regarding the .470 AR? I read a bunch of the older threads that ran up to the test shootings, but never saw whether the project was finally determined practical or not. Was it reasonably easy to make the brass, or were there complications? Did the rifle end up feeding reliably or were there other issues?

I'd really be interested in reading a postmortem on the project.

analog_peninsula

"Postmortem" implies the 470 died. Not so, thankfully. It has met and exceeded all of the expectations. Cases are no harder to form than the two other AR siblings (one pass in a sizind die and trim to length) and CH4D has once-fired cases to make dies for all three. Should be ready any time now.

The 416 AR is the softest 416 I ever shot at 2400 fps, the 458 AR is considered the most practical because of bullet choice but the 470 AR is the most "fun".

I'll let Jeffe post the numbers when he finds this thread; I can't recall them at the moment.

Final Conclusion?

http://weaponsmith.com/AR-rounds1.html

Here's a pic that includes a 470, 458, and 416 AR



Success Criterion
Cheap Brass - passed (375 RUM base case)

Cheap standard length Actions (infers 7mag) Passed

Easy to make feed in same - Passed

2200 fps with woodliegh 500gr - passed .. made 2360 or 2380 (forgot which this second) without high perssure signs

Easy to form - passed
easy to trim - passed, with new case trimmer to make it EASY

All in all, I had exactly ZERO headpsace issues, either during forming or with loaded rounds

throws 500gr woodleighs nearly 2400, and will, with load dev

416 -400 at 2500 easy enough
458 2400 easy enough

470 - 2400, no problem.. and with cheap 400gr golddot pistol bullets, it's cheap to feed.

in short, it is the only standard action 470 bolt round.

jeffe

the final conclusion is up to you...

mine...

make one!

jeff deserves a lot of credit for such a great project completed with great results

have fun...

jeff...

have you had time to try those bullets?

Sorry for my ignorance.

What is the parent case for the .470 AR?

The developement of these rounds seemed like a good idea from the start.

I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of a 375 AR but that's life....the 375 Dakota is almost the same thing.

I'm not into anything bigger than 416 as recoil is serious and not for me but I can honestly say that I'd far rather shoot a 458 AR at DG than a 458 Lott.

We're assuming that the rifle feeds etc.....

Given the power of the 416 Taylor and the 458 Win Mag in a standard action these rounds are easily superior and performance seems to bear that out.

Jeffe did OK here!!!

Vapo,
thanks for the kind words.. I am nearly begining to erode on the 375 .. .but but but, I want to do the 500 AR first.

I know you won't beleive me, but the 416 AR SEEMS to be less recoil than you can believe. I am biased on this, so ask those that have shot one. It is ESAILY the lightest kicking "real 2400" fps 416 i've shot


Surestrike,
the parent cases for all the 40's AR are the 375 RUM caes

el jeffe...

could you someday do a "photoshoot" of the a.r. rounds next to like calibers e.g. capstick/470 a.r., rigby/416 a.r., lott, 458 a.r. with a rule to show scale and dimensions. you could throw in some other carts too like the 06' ect. i think it would help the visualy reliant people how cool this is. (not that it needs everyones approval)

Boom,
you mean like on my website, already?
http://weaponsmith.com/AR-rounds1.html

375 RUM unformed, 458 AR , 458 lott

yes and no...

i was thinking about all three together with oposing nemesi with the rule (a framing square will do)

if you send me the dummy rounds i will put my photog skilz to work and do a centerfold spread if you want. (i guess that makes you hugh heffner, got a silk robe? )

By postmortem, I meant that the project had been completed. I strongly believe that postmortems should be performed on successful projects as well as unsuccessful projects. Otherwise you may not know why you succeeded in spite of yourself.



Jeff, I suppose that I was asking whether you were positive or negative on the final result. I was pretty sure that you were happy with the .416, but was less so about the .470 and the .458. As I read the older threads, you and others expressed some concern about the viability of the .458/.470 headspacing and shoulder dimensions. I was just checking in to make sure that the beer goggles hadn't disappeared in the light of day ...

Do you prefer one or the other of the .458 / .470 for technical reasons?

analog_peninsula

AHH>>
I am very happy happy happy with all of them. The 470 has the highest cool factor...
the 458 is probably the "best" in bullets and speed
the 416 is just a light kicking joy...

But, just like a guy that has a 416 rem, 458 lott, and 470 capstick, I love them all, but not for the same reasons!!

the 470, before I built it, was a THEORECTICAL concern on headspace

j

Jeffe,

just a personal question, but wopuldn't the kick-ass factor of a 500AR be just about off the charts?

Rich

Rich,
it certainly would be a neat round... and fit in a standard length, though the feeding could be an issue

jeffe

I really, really am very impressed by the job Jeffe has done here. From idea to working rifles and stamped cases in so short time is immensly impressive, when considering he is a full time gunsmith - and those are never bored!

Bent,
thanks... but I ain't full time.. i have a 60hour+a week job as a technologist, and then this habit... er hobby!!!

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Bent,
thanks... but I ain't full time.. i have a 60hour+a week job as a technologist, and then this habit... er hobby!!!

jeffe

OK, that explains it! Because after 60 hours with gunsmithing to pay the bills, projects like this usually takes way much more time!

Hehe, still well done!

Here are the opposing .416's I have all loaded with Hornady fmj. Based on the .416 and how easy it is to shoot, I am having a .470 built (already have the barrel} as soon as I clear another purchase.
Frank

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Vapo,
thanks for the kind words.. I am nearly begining to erode on the 375 .. .but but but, I want to do the 500 AR first.

I know you won't beleive me, but the 416 AR SEEMS to be less recoil than you can believe. I am biased on this, so ask those that have shot one. It is ESAILY the lightest kicking "real 2400" fps 416 i've shot


Surestrike,
the parent cases for all the 40's AR are the 375 RUM caes

What case are you going to use for the .500AR?

jeffe--

the .470 AR in the photo is the same one you "test fired" on the boar out of the grey blind isn't it? And the same one you let me shoot the sissy loads out of?

Tell 'em--it lays a hog in the dirt just fine.

Allen,
yep!! that's the 470... and even with pistol bullets, it's a hog waster!!


George,
The 500 ar will look more or less like this .., though I may go to a 2.65 long case, either way, 2350 with 535gr would be fairly easy, with a 23" barrel, with ~57500kpsi, as the 500jeffe is about 40kpsi for 2350, same length barrel.


using either rigby or lapua brass, shortened and improved.

jeffe