The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores solids for eland?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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The eland is a big and tough animal and from what I have heard even Swift A Frame bullets do not give an exit especially when front shoulder blade shot is used. For animal of such weight I would generally prefer max penetration ideally with exit. I assume the most suitable bullet diameter should be .375. Would you recommend for that purpose for instance the North Fork Cup Point Solids that might expand a bit? CZ | ||
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About 1/4 page up from the bottom.................... http://forums.accuratereloadin...821037581#7821037581 You could use a North Fork CPS, that would be an excellent choice, or a BBW#13 NonCon. 375? Suitable? Rats and such for sure........ not much else. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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The Swift A Frames in 9.3 or 375 are great Eland rounds but the Cup Points or Woodleigh "Heavy Duty" Round nose bullets will also be great. | |||
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CZ I have shot eland with 375 300grain Swifts plenty good medicine, big bull piled up in 35 yds, any premium soft point, Nosler partition, northfork softs, woodies,barnes TSX will all work just fine. Though eland are massive they are not known to be that tough in comparison to some of the other plains game animals. Dirk "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Your A-Frames will be fine on eland. I wouldn't use a solid. | |||
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Yep A-frames, Woodleighs,barnes X (triple shock), Northfork, CEB's. non-con..all will work no need to go to a solid non expanding. Ed DRSS Member | |||
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I shot my eland with my 450 No2, at conversational distance, less than 10 yards in heavy bush. A 480 Woodleigh Soft knocked him down and a 500gr Swift A Frame was quickly fired as a finisher. Neither one gave complete penetration. A good friend of mine killed an eland on more open country with a 280 Remington and 150 Nosler Partitions, 2 shots fired. I would prefer a good quality soft for eland, but it would not hurt to have some solids in case of a follow up, where raking shots will need to be taken. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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It's an eland .... | |||
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I have shot several eland, they are big, tough animals...... Last one was last year with a 500 MDM, 350 gr Raptor NonCon at 2750 fps. Distance around 40 yds, dead through the shoulder, heart and lungs destroyed, a 2 inch+ diameter hole through the heart, and he hit a dead run for 50 yards exactly, and died on his feet. Bullet exited of course, trauma was massive to say the least, yet he managed to go 50 yards.... No surprises. Now, shooting a standard conventional, and smaller bore, then best listen to NE250#2, for followups that solid just might come in very handy!
Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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[quote]Bullet exited of course, trauma was massive to say the least, yet he managed to go 50 yards./quote] With lung and heart shots no matter what animal you shoot no matter what cailber. They can run aways normally a 100 yards or less. I learned long ago if they are still moving after the frist shot shoot them again and again. Ammo is cheap | |||
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Yes i would use a non con. I had good succes with Noslers, Hornady Interlocks and Sierras.I used those on my 3006. Org | |||
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I put a .375 300 grain TSX through both lungs of a decent broadside cape eland and it exited. No shoulders were involved, mostly because there were trees in the way for that shot. It ran what I would conservatively estimate to be 1/4 mile. At 25 mph that would only take 30 seconds or so. | |||
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I've only shot one eland and that was with a borrowed .375. The rifle belongs to a seriously old school PH who likes solids for everything, so I used solids. They obviously will work but there are better options for a first shot from any reasonable angle. Solids for a back up shot are probably not strictly necessary, but FWIW, that is what I'd choose any time penetration has to be measured in feet. Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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I used a 250 Sierra GameKing out of my .375 H & H when I shot my eland. He went about 85 yards and collapsed. The bullet did not exit but performed just like it was supposed to. Bullet recovered under the offside hide. | |||
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It's your hunt and your call. I happen to prefer .416 (Rigby, at 350 grain at 2800 fps). A bullet with a good BC can sometimes be useful for a 200-300 yard shot. The eland is a noble beast and deserves the best. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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CZ, I personally think any controlled expansion bullet will work for your eland and I think the Swift A-frame in 300 gr will be a great choice. I've used Swift A-Frames, Trophy Bonded and TSX in different weights for eland and all have worked well. I'd forget the solids for eland as unecessary. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I've killed Eland with the .300wm and the .416Rem. I prefer the .416 for the largest antelope on Earth. Solids are not necessary and should not be used - they may be illegal for PG in some countries as well. I like the Swift A-Frame but today would use a CEB NonCon. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Oh Dear me! A Sierra bullet in Africa! I thought they would disentigrate on the plane flight!!!!!!!!!!  Man I just love those Game Kings! At the right velocity they just flat out KILL! | |||
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Living in South Texas must make them puny and weak.  "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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PDS, I never had a second shot, or believe me I would unload on one, I never shoot once and admire the shot, as many do, I shoot until I am 1. Out of Ammo 2. No Shot 3. Problem Solved, and still shoot one more........ On this one, I had no second shot, much less a 3rd!
OK, most agree, eland are big, tough, and don't just drop to the shot every single time. What if some of you are shooting "Rat" guns, you know, less than 416 caliber! And you don't get a really good shot....... What part of the eland do you think you are going to be looking at IF YOU GET a Second Shot? Now, do you think your Swift, Your Trophy Bonded, Your TSX, or your Sierra Game King, Hornady, Nosler, can be counted on, 100% of the time, to run up that Elands Ass and get to vitals? Do you think I am stupid? Did I say Use a Solid on Your First Shot? No, I did not, Read, "Follow Up Shots", exactly as did NE450#2, in which we concur upon this point...... I repeat;
Now do please, tell me what is wrong with that logic? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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The non con or Raptor hollow point forward act like solid as well as the extra internal piranha teeth. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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7mm-08 with 140 grn winchester power points | |||
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Two shots from my 375 H&H. 60 meter shoulder shot, second shot quartering away, as the target was in a stumbling trot, to drop. 300 grain TSX. Both shots pass through- no bullet recovery. | |||
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A mature Eland and a mature Bull Elk weigh almost the same. What will kill one will kill the other. If you think living with Lions is more stressful than living with Grizzly Bears you nedd to see the video (NGC chnl) of a big Boar Grizzly running down and killing an adult cow Elk over about 500 yards in Yellowstone. Solids, according to most PHs, are (except for Elephant) are verging on obsolete as a TSX will penetrate as far and do a lot more damage along the way. The "African Game is tougher" myth still is with us. | |||
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Sorry Art but a mature bull Eland can weigh over 2000 pounds, it would be an extremely large Rocky Mountain Elk to weigh over 1000 pounds _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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As Will Rogers said:"I only know what I read." "The giant elands are spiral-horned antelopes. Despite its common name, this species broadly overlaps in size with the common eland (Taurotragus oryx). The giant eland is the largest species of antelope in the world.[17][18][19][20] They are typically between 220 and 290 cm (7.2 and 9.5 ft) in head-and-body length and stand approximately 130 to 180 cm (4.3 to 5.9 ft) at the shoulder. Giant elands exhibit sexual dimorphism, as males are larger than females. The males weigh 400 to 1,000 kg (880 to 2,200 lb) and females weigh 300 to 600 kg (660 to 1,300 lb).[21] The tail is long, having a dark tuft of hair, and averages 90 cm (35 in) in length.[8] The life expectancy of giant elands is up to 25 years in the wild, and about 20 years in captivity." In any case, even if this 2000 pound ungulate exists, a 180 gr TSX from a 30-06 behind the shoulder would kill it deader than dirt and a 270 gr TSX for a 375 H&H through both shoulders would dump it on the spot. After you see several mature Bull Bison dropped on the spot by 308s/30-06s with TSXs through both shoulders, you learn that no animal is bullet proof and with todays super bullets solids are generally obsolete. Ray Atkinson whom I guess has a bit more African experience than most of us said: "Hard to beat a 30-06 with any good premium 180 gr. bullet..My choice would be the 180 or 200 g. Nosler partition, particularly the 200 gr. Nosler, the more I use it the better I like it..I push it at 2700 FPS in my 06" 1100 pounds on the scale and killed with the flintlock equivalent of a 16 bore Brenneke Boar slug.  But I have not hunted Eland......... | |||
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STFU Larry and go away USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Larry aside from the fact you are WRONG, why do you have this compulsion to changing login names as often as you do? (rhetorical question) It's because you get caught in so many lies everyone eventually grows to despise and ridicule you. Go find another site to pollute, we already ran you out of 24Hr and I'll keep exposing you here as often as I can. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Shot my Eland with a 250gr. X bullet from my 375H&H, deader then Vaudeville in 30 or 40 seconds. Of course it ran about a half mile.  Political correctness offends me. | |||
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I've used Woodleigh Protected Points for all the eland I've shot. Some exited. Some didn't. But all of them killed the eland that stopped them. So I'm going to say Woodleighs, in my personal experience, are 100% reliable. | |||
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Artshaw, Larry or whatever your alias is today: You are full of sh!t. By your own admission an Eland bull is TWICE the size of your 1100# bull elk. I have killed a few Eland bulls and more bull Elk - there is no comparison.  Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Lets start at the top: Gary, curious where you hit the Eland. Was the bullet recovered ? What was the distance ? Pirates Life, yup aren't Woodleighs great ? I can't believe how accurate they are in my 375 & 400 H&Hs. Lion Hunter my "own admission" was that Eland bulls vary a lot in weight with 2000 lbs being very large. I'm sure all the Eland you shot were weighed before dressing so you are sure of the 2000 pound monsters. (my Elk was) I guess you have a lot more hunting experience than Roy, so his comments are also incorrect. Frankly I don't care how big (fill in the blank) is. As I said, with the exception of Elephants, the TSX is a better large game bullet. IF you subscribed to African Hunter you would see that many, many Buff PHs now suggest TSXs over solids. Next time you go Lion hunting (assume you have taken dozens) fill up the gun with solids and let us know how well it worked. (or send in the obit) | |||
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Artshaw: I like TSX's for buffalo, too. In the 416 the 350 grain TTSX is the standard to beat. With its high BC it becomes a dual-purpose buffalo AND ELAND bullet. The CEB's produce incredible terminal ballistics and will overtake the TTSX. At the moment they are being redesigned for long range models. If a CEB non-con "extended range" can get close to the .444 BC of the TTSX, then it will be the ultimate eland bullet. If it's BC is significantly lower, say .290-.320, then for eland one will need to choose between the sleek delivery of a high BC and the explosive terminals of a more wind-buffeted delivery. Pretty nice choices. In .510" those choices would currently be between the GSCustom 450 grain HP (.325 BC) and whatever the tipped CEB non-cons end up at. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Larry Root, a/k/a 45-70 Shooter, a/k/a Art Shaw, and so on, Do you actually read what others have written here, or for that matter, what you yourself have written? Lionhunter specifically stated that solids for eland are "NOT necessary and should not be used" and stated past preference for the Swift A-Frame, now the CEB Non-Con. How do you deduce him having a preference for solids based on those comments?  Furthermore, your statements that a big bull elk and big bull eland are similar in size is so far off base it's really not worth a response. It shows a total lack of knowledge on the subject. Fact is that most eland bulls will easily outweigh most cape bufalo bulls. A mature bull elk will be roughly half the size of a mature eland by comparison. Even your follow on statements make this point. Interesting that you would argue with yourself.  That, as well as the numerous handles and name changes, certainly don't do much to establish credibility on your part.  Are you interested in contributing to the discussions and debates in a meaningful and positive way, or do you simply just enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing? Even when arguing with yourself as you do in this thread! I'm thinking there should be a forum exclusively for you, your aliases, Crazyhorse, Pyzda, and Shootaway. You could probably add GOB to that list as well. I'm sure we could all learn much from the expertise of such a forum.  | |||
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Okay, okay, I am wrong and you "Africans" from CA and TX know more than the folks who live/ hunt for a living there. I see Dan Moody has Eland hunts in Texas that he says weigh from 880 to 2200 pounds. Time to start saving up as I'd like to go there and kill one deader than dirt with 180 gr TSXs in my old 721 30-06. Nice angle and it will break both shoulders just like that Yellowstone Bison. No point in further discussion. Donations accepted. | |||
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 What an ass!Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Oh really artshaw/Larry, perhaps before you give us the wisdom of your advice you might reflect on what Harry Selby has to say about solids and Lions, and if you think you may have more experience and more knowledge of African hunting than Harry then so be it "In time I abandoned carrying soft-nose bullets for the .416, for the ones available from Kynoch tended to break up. The only possible use for a soft-nose bullet would be lion, and I found that the .416 rolled lions over with a solid pretty well anyway" - quote Harry Selby | |||
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I am going to find out here in about 5 months.. Will take a 375 (H&H or Wea.) with 300 TSX's and a 416 Rem with 370 NF softs. Probably shoot an eland which ever I have in my arms at the time. That being said, I have shot two very large Alaskan bull moose ( did not weigh them, they were far away from any scales) but I did pack them out so I know first hand they weighed A LOT!! One I shot at +400 yards and the other at 40 yards. Both with a 340 Wea. with 250 NP's @ about 2900 FPS. Both were shot broadside and both were pass throughs. The 40 yard shot left an exit wound you could about stick your fist in. I became a believer in that rifle bullet combo back then 24 years ago. I would think a good soft with proper bullet placement will work. Like I mentioned up front, we will see in the not to distant future. EZ | |||
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Solids will work on any and every thing Harry Shelby used solids even on lion and he was a PH that guide Robert Roark and retired not that many years ago. After all those years he had no problems with a good solid With todays better expanding bullets the need for solids on Buffalo and lion is questionable, but a well placed solid will still work _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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