What is the difference between a .416 Rigby and Remington? I have a .375 and I am heading for a plains game hunt in africa. Was wondering which .416 would be best for Buffs. Thanks.

No experience on Buff but I prefer the Rigby. Can go from .416 rem ballistics to neally .416 Weatherby figures.

.416 Remington is based on an "improved" .375 H&H brass. .416 Rigby is larger in size and volume and require a true magnum length action to work.

Both of them are great choices for buffalo. As a matter of fact your current .375 ( I Assume that it's an H&H) will work perfectly as well.

nuff said...

rigby...much bigger action

416 rem, smaller and higher preasure

rigby nostalgia rem convenience

I like the Remington you have less recoil and shells and brass epcially are way less.Its like a two trucks one is twice as big but has no more power or can haul anything more but it cost about 4 times more to operate.Which one do you choose.I think its a Robert Ruark thing with the 416 Rigby .I Like Ruark alot but he kept the 416 Rigby alive in his books then Bill Ruger Brought It back.I love the 416 Rem mag brass is .38 each vs $2 each for 416.I bet my 7.5 pound 416 rem mag kicks about the same as a 10 pound 416 Rigby.Its like a 300 win mag and a 300 wsm they do exactly the same thing but its closer in the 416s.I like the smaller actions the 416 rem mag will fit in such as the model 700 win and the 700 remington.I have both actions and like them both.My kevalar stocked remingtons that weigh 7.5 pounds kick less tham my model 70 express in 416 rem mag.I can buy a case of 500 pcs of brass from midway for 416 rem mag for $186 .Its $1000 for a case of 416 Rigby brass.I can shoot my 416 rem mag with new brass and speer 350 gr mag tip bullets for $1 a shot and less the second time around .60 a shot thats cheap.And it kicks way less and uses less powder.Its a very efficent cartridge.I love it but wish Ruger chambered its RSM rifle in it.

I had the same question before my African adventure, I went with the Remington. It served me well and did it's job on the Buffalo. I also bought a Rigby when my son talked of going with me, seemed like a very good excuse for another rifle at the time. They both shoot the 400 grain bullets very nicely, but if you want to step the Rigby up the case capacity is there. Two weeks ago I got 2700 plus out of a 400 grain bullet, the Remington will not do that. The question becomes, what do you want to do with the rifle, then go with it. There is a considerable difference in cost of Brass, all else is the same. Good luck and good shooting.

Rigby and Ruger both chose wisely in their choices of 416's IMHO. The Rigby can go from 416RemMag levels on up to near 416 Weatherby levels by simply varying the loading. With my full load cartridges, I can shake them and still hear the powder a little -- no compression -- I like that.

I already had the girlish looking cartridge with the slopey shoulder with my 375H&H (you too) and wasn't interested in another one, so I went for the 416 Rigby.

The nostalgia and history is no small thing for me either, it is 95 years old and still "spanks" some of the new comers. Selby used it and so did Jack O'Connor.

IMHO, most folks don't cross the .400+ DG rifle "border" on the basis of cheapness or smallness.

You might want to consider skipping the 416's altogether and jump up to the 458 Lott. That along with your 375HH would make a more balanced set to my way of thinking.

I would base my choice on the rifle you find first that you like.

The performance on game is about the same IMO.

I have an M70 in 416 Rem. If I had found a Rigby first - and I liked the rifle - I'd have bought that.

Handle the rifle before you buy.

I shot my first buffalo with a rigby loaner rifle. I now own a remington and feel its lots easier to handle and Im more apt to use it on game here in the US. I still prefer and feel more comfortable with my .375.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
I would base my choice on the rifle you find first that you like.

The performance on game is about the same IMO.

I have an M70 in 416 Rem. If I had found a Rigby first - and I liked the rifle - I'd have bought that.

Handle the rifle before you buy.

Sound advice sir.

The .375 I have is H&H MAG. I appreciate everyone's advice. This form is great way to get experienced opinions.

Snyder

It's gotten to the point where I don't ask MY questions anywhere else!
And, I've had some DOOZIES!

Mind you, I don't have the experience to make an 'informed' opinion on your question, but I have an opinion nonetheless...

That RIGBY thing is "KEWL".
It's got the ability to 'jack it up' over the Remington, and I'm one of the 'Remington Nuts' around here...
I'd pick the Rigby, just because...

Either chambering will serve you well. A 416 Rem, you can make your own brass out of 375H&H (just don't try and take your reloads to Africa. It can be a real pain trying to explain why the headstamp doesn't match the chambering!), where the Rigby can be hard to find.
As previously mentioned though, if the rifle is for your 'one off African safari', the cost of the ammo is going to be the least of your concerns.
If you are going to keep your 375H&H, the idea of a 458 Lott has a good deal of merit, provided the recoil is not an issue.
I had tried a 458 Lott, but the recoil was just too much for me to shoot accurately, under pressure. I took a 416 Hoffman (pretty well much the same as the Remington 416) on a Win mod 70, never let me down, good performance on Buff.
Hope this helps.

458 lott ... yes, I know that's not your question, but your question is "which medium 40 should I get and why" .

okay, 6 months ago, i would have told you 416 rem and forget the rest, as the brass was far cheaper...

but hornady is now making Rigby brass and ammo with a target price of 50% of what federal charges... at least that's what the oldest guy in the hornady booth told me at dallas.

in loaded ammmo, that's cheaper than loaded 416 rem.


But, my honest answer is, you have a 375, you don't "need" a 416, as that's the middle ground between the 458 and 375, and frankly, load the load to 2200fps and it's pleasant to shoot.

get an RSM or a CZ in the lott. if you get a CZ send it to CZ's custom shop, have it dual cross bolted, bedded, etc there. it's a nominal charge.

load the lott with rem 405's at something tiny and go to the range....

work up

and have the best bullet selection and price of all the 40s...

and yes, bullet price SHOULD make a difference, as you intend to "do battle" with this rifle against dangerous game, running a few hundred 12¢ bullets down the barrel, stepping up a grain a week (shoot a box of ammo a week to train) and then in the last month move up to a premimum bullet and load...

well, there's a couple hundred bucks to be saved just in training.. rather than not training

jeffe

Either one will work, I went with the Rigby, I like them old cartridges. I am also a 45-70 nut.

Your choice of rifles is really the issue. Both carts. are great, both cost to operate. Don't let the cost of brass scare you away from the Rigby. It lasts along time & you aren't varminting w/ it. 200rds would probably last you the rest of your hunting life.

I like carring a less weight gun two pounds that cost less to shoot and kicks less and has just as much power in factory loads.Both are good cartridges but I am set up for life with 416 rem mag brass.And I use 416 weatherby brass to make 338-378 brass.I do want to rechamber a 416 rigby to 416 weatherby in a ruger mag 77 .I love those guns just dont want it in a 375 or 416 Rigby.Its too easy to mix up 416 rigby and weatherby.

Sorry dgr, but how can you confuse .416wby for .416 Rigby? I would think the belted case would give it away.

Keep your 375 H&H and get a Ruger RSM in 458 Lott. THAT is the perfect combo. Just my $0.03 worth.
Best, Starcharvski.

Remember that it is not the name Rigby that makes it a wonderful cartridge, it was the ballistics through the years. If you can live without the nostalgia, go with the Remington. Only problem is, if you ever find yourself on an end of season hunt in the Zambesi valley (or simmaller), you might get sticky extraction on full power loads. Load it down to 2250-2300 with a good quality 400gr bullet, and you will be happy. I would have gone for the Rigby, seeing that I have a Mauser (copy) magnum double square bridge action lying around... Actually, I agree with Brad, buy something bigger. Makes more sense with a .375 as a battery.

I didn't see anybody address the issue of pressure in the .416 REM vice .416 Rigby. The Brits made that "huge" case for a reason. As loaded to normal velocities (about 2400 fps), the pressure in the Rigby is lower than the Remington. If you jack the Rigby up to .416 Weatherby, you get the pressures of the Remington and the velocities of the Weatherby. The best compromise in the .416 caliber is the Rigby. Penetration will be better at 2400fps verses the 25-2600fps of the Weatherby. Under the harshest (read hot) conditions of the African veld, the Rigby will not stick cases at the worst possible moment the way the Remington and Weatherby "may".

All that said, your .375 H & H will take anything you want that is legal to use it on and is more comfortable to shoot.

I believe that all of the hubub about pressure problems with the Remington is just that: hubub. There are plenty of people on this site that have hunted Africa and other tropical climes with the Rem and haven't experienced any issues with extraction. I've used mine in central Florida during the summer on hog hunts and have never experienced a single problem. The Rigby is pretty sexy though!

Hell, just get one of each. I did!

Whitworth, I agree. The 416 Rem works at no higher pressure than a 3006 or a 375 H&H. There were some initial problems with it that are long resolved. I own and hunt with a 416 Rigby and I like it very much, but on reflection, the 416 Rem is a more practical choice. The Rigby IS a great caliber, but if you're gonna lug around such a huge action, might as well have one of the big 45s. jorge

PS: I'm with mrlexma also!

The Rigby was invented at a time when Cordite was the powder used for Kynoch ammo. That sized case was needed to get enough of the stuff in the case to produce their target velocity. The powder was inserted and then the case was necked down, same as with the 375H&H.
Cordite was temp sensitive so it had to be loaded to low pressures, even in cartridges designed specifically for bolt rifles. This is why they also made a "tropical" load for several calibers.
The pressure issue is a dog that should have died and been buried long ago. The 416Rem operates at exactly the same pressure as any other modern loaded round, form 243 up through 458Lott. They work fine in Africa or anywhere else it can get hot. I've owned both and still do, I'll take the Remington hands down because the extra size and weight of a Rigby chambered rifle is better carried with a 458cal barrel,IMO.

Long ago I figured out that the .416 Rigby was "King Of The Hill." Nothing else says "Dead Buffalo" quite so distinctly as the report of a .416 Rigby. I guess that makes the .416 Rigby "King Of The Bull" too.

Alas, I was corrupted into believing the .404 Jeffery might be better, by the likes of Ray and Mickey, and I was driven to prove to myself that it too was a one shot dispatcher of bovines approaching 1 ton on the hoof, just like the .416 Rigby is. Syncerus caffer, Bubalus bubalis, or Bison bison: they are all laid low right now by a mere 400 grains at 2400 fps, whether Rigby, Remington, or Jeffery.

The Rigby is handicapped by bulk?
I think not, when a 9.250# CZ (.416 Rigby 25"), a 9.125# Winchester (.416 Remington 24"), and a 9.500# Ruger (.416 Rigby 23"), all factory tossers of same .416/400gr bullets, are compared in your own hands, as they have been weighed by my hands and accurate scales.
The differences are insignificant.

Brass costs excessive?
Not if you reload. The .416 Rigby cases will "last forever" by comparison to the .416 Remington.

Magazine limitation for the .416 Rigby? That CZ will hold a total of 4 or 5 depending on how you trick it out.

My ownership votes:
.416 Rigby x3
.416 Remington x2
.416 Barnes Supreme x1 (1949 vintage of .416 Remington)
.416 Taylor x1
.416 Dakota x1

I am back to where I started.
The .416 Rigby is winner by far when you consider its greater ballistic capabilities.

However, please do a nice jig with whichever .416 you take to the dance. You can always put a paper bag over your head if you are at all self conscious about being seen with one or the other .416.

rip...turn that taylor into a 416 a.r.!
it will be a birthday present to jeffeosso if you come aboard.

RIP-
I think you have a "fat" 416Rem there to make comparisons with. Of the three of them I've owned, none have weighed over 8.5 pounds, which is still not that much lighter. But I do find their recoil to be less for 2400fps, I think due to burning about 20grs less powder?
In any case, both are very good cartridges and easy enought o handle. That said, the 450s put them in the back seat for sheer knockdown, which is why I no longer use them.

BS,
Can't touch that Taylor, and you see I don't need anymore .416's.

John S,
9 pounds and 2 ounces on certified commercial scales in Cordova, Alaska. M70 .416 Rem. Classic Safari Express with walnut stock, bare and empty rifle with iron sights only. I don't think variation in gravitation change with latitude is involved here. I also have the Big Five version of the same rifle and it weighs the same (gold on floor plate is very thin). If I put the African Sheep Rifle stock on it by Brown Precision it would weigh less than 8.5 pounds.

Maybe the older stocks were lighter than these new "negative drop" Winchester monsters? The CZ Lux Hogback is nifty on a .416 Rigby, and the CZ muzzle diameter is about 0.666". The Winchester muzzle is fatter, greater than 0.7" diameter.

The action weight difference would be no more than 1/2 pound, between the CZ and the M70, and that is the only real rifle weight difference, absolutely speaking, unless you want to say that .416 Rigby brass weight is greater. Not significant.

A slimmer stock and slimmer barrel on a .416 Rigby floats my boat.

What recoil? Man we are talking .416's here.

And please don't give up on the .416's. Great guns for plains game at 300 yards with 350 grainers at 2700 fps. Still adequate for buffalo even with the light bullet, though heavier is better for buffalo, true enough.

Jeffeosso, thanks for advise.

Snyder

On game, the .416 Rigby is better, there is a difference with the .416 REM.
On paper, the ballistics are same !
I used the two bores in some safaris (dangerous game), I prefer the .416 Rigby, it is more efficacious !
This my advice !

Alain, given that all things are equal balistically -- same bullet (weight, type), and identical velocity, how can one be better than the other?

Well I guess my 416 like me, are "too short" for our weight . My RSM tips the scales @12lb with a full combat load of three rounds, scope & sling. Also, the 416 Rem's trimmer action just makes it less bulky. I'll NEVER dump my Rigby personally, but as before my recommendation to others is the Rem. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Alain:
On game, the .416 Rigby is better, there is a difference with the .416 REM.

Amazing....simply amazing.

JMHO,

John

Finally,
Something I agree on with JTG.

BTW,
There are 3 generations of Ruger .416 Rigby's out there, the first two with fat 24" barrels (about 10.75 lbs.), and the latest with slimmer 23" barrel (about 9.5 lbs) ... depending on wood, rifle weights are bare and empty, with iron sights only.

Those fat barrel Rugers seem to put all their bullets into one hole.

My 416 M70 Super Express weighs 10.2 lbs with a Dan Pedersen Cutrifle barrel that's a long, gradual taper to .770 at the muzzle. The barrel also has an integral quarter rib, integral barrel lug, barrel band sling swivel, NECG Masterpiece sights and a Leupold 1.75-6x32 LER scope.

The stock also has SteelBed plus some reinforcing iron here and there in it.

It does not seem all that much heavier than a factory M70. But I added all the extras piecemeal, so I can't really tell. I know I'd hate to shoot it if it was much lighter!

What does (did?) the typical M70 416 weigh from the factory?

quote:

Originally posted by S.K. Snyder:
What is the difference between a .416 Rigby and Remington? I have a .375 and I am heading for a plains game hunt in africa. Was wondering which .416 would be best for Buffs. Thanks.

IMO, if you use factory ammo and are shooting the same kind of bullets in both, there is no difference at all in terminal ballistics of the two. The advantage to the Rigby is it operates at much lower pressure, so is less likely to cause extraction problems in high heat conditions. In addition, if you handload and are willing to go to higher than factory load pressures, the Rigby will outperform the Remington. In fact, the 416 Weatherby is nothing more than a belted 416 Rigby!

The Remington round has a few advantages of its own. It is a lot cheaper to load for and shoot, using less costly brass and less powder. In addition, most repeating rifles chambered for the Rem. round will hold at least one more round in the magazine, which may prove to be important when hunting dangerous game.

I reently acquired a CZ in .416 Rigby, and found that GRAFS was selling .416 Rigby brass by Jameson for around $40.00 per 100. This is a lot less than what the Norma stuff costs, but it may not be quite as good. However, I heard that jameson is making Dakota brass these days, and the quality should be OK. I just fired 20 rounds loaded with Speer Mag-Tip 350-grain bullets at 2450 FPS using 95 grains of IMR 4350. The gun proved pretty accurate and a pleasure to shoot. It has a VAIS muzzle brake, and exhibits less recoil than my hot-loaded Ruger No. 1 .45/70! It seemed to even be a bit less than my 1H in .375 H&H. This VAIS brake is quiet, too. People beside me at the range said it sounded about like a .30/'06!

Now all I have to do is "develop" that load for optimum accuracy. (I did get one 3-shot group of 1.5" at 200 yards with this load, so it may be that all that is required is for me to learn to shoot it! I've got some 350-grain cast gascheck bullets on the way, and plan to try them at 1800-2000 FPS with a case full of AA8700.)

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
there is no difference at all in terminal ballistics of the two. The advantage to the Rigby is it operates at much lower pressure, so is less likely to cause extraction problems in high heat conditions.

If the theoretical extraction problems bother a guy he can always download the .416 Rem. and POOF one has 450/400 ballistics which have definitely killed a decent number of elephant and buffalo.

JMHO,

John

OK class, in unison: THERE ARE NO PRESSURE PROBLEMS WITH THE 416 REMINGTON. It's so simple to understand, even a caveman can do it! jorge

DON_G:

I am really interested in seeing a pics of your 416 with the Dan Pederson "integral rib barrel"...please post a pic or two or PM me, if you do not mind....Thanks a bunch!