This is not a knock against anything in the 4’s just a question. Seems like a 300 grain Barnes TSX would do everything you want to do?

Asking for a friend who’s considering a new gun.

Well Saeed has easily shot far more animals from very small through to elephant than anyone on AR and he has used for years a pair or 375/404 Improved, so basically a 375 RUM but his loads are backed off to about 2750 f/s with 300 grains so similar to 375 Wby.

I have never loaded for a 375 with the long 300 grain TSX but my guess would be with a powder like Reloader 15 then 2550 f/s or so should be around the money.

We had a great member once. His screen moniker was Oldsarge.

He wrote a piece he titled, and I may be paraphrasing now, “How Much Gun Is Enough Gun?” I don’t know if Oldsarge is still around, but I remember being impressed by his exposition and argument. Maybe the best I ever read.

Oldsarge’s answer, as I recall, and I stand to be corrected, was that bigger is definitely better, if the shooter can handle it.

My experience has backed that up, 100%.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
We had a great member once. His screen moniker was Old Sarge.

He wrote a piece he titled, and I may be paraphrasing now, “How Much Gun Is Enough Gun?” I don’t know if Old Sarge is still around, but I remember being impressed by his exposition and argument. Maybe the best I ever read.

Old Sarge’s answer, as I recall, and I stand to be corrected, was that bigger is definitely better, if the shooter can handle it.

My experience has backed that up, 100%.

On Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum there are quite a few blokes who live in the Northern Territory. Plenty have said there is a big noticeable change with 500 J and also the 460 as compred to the 375 and 458. One bloke has a 460 and 500 Nitro and said the 460 is better but he also likes his 500 double.

A .30-06 and a .375 are all anyone needs.
But, it's not what we need,it's what we want. That's why I hunt with a .600 much of the time.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
A .30-06 and a .375 are all anyone needs.
But, it's not what we need,it's what we want. That's why I hunt with a .600 much of the time.
Cal

Exactly. If shooting the big red roos in the spotlight with a 378 or 460 is a sin then I will be in hell for a long time

When silly questions like this appear, it becomes more obvious that some folks have gone stir crazy.

Well, since you said gun, how about a 12 gauge with 3 inch chambers.

quote:

crshelton

posted 03 May 2020 15:08
When silly questions like this appear, it becomes more obvious that some folks have gone stir crazy.

He was asking for a friend but I know what you mean. We are still in Lockdown here after several weeks, and very movement restricted. It's definitely becoming more difficult to stay confined. Been thinking a lot of all the shooting I'm missing.

As strictly a North American game hunter, I assume some would consider anything over 338 Winchester excessive. I personally don't subscribe to that line of thought. I do have full faith in my 338 Winchester but fully enjoy my 375's and 416's. I don't know if one or the other makes anything any deader any quicker.
I do believe at times the larger bore and heavier bullet does provide more visual affect when the bullet makes contact. Though that is hard to quantify on shots where the game goes down near instantly.
Obviously by Saeed vast experiences a 375 is more than sufficient or adequate.

quote:

Originally posted by mstewart44:
This is not a knock against anything in the 4’s just a question. Seems like a 300 grain Barnes TSX would do everything you want to do?

Asking for a friend who’s considering a new gun.

The only thing better than a 375 H&H is a 375 that fits into a standard action. Yes, I am fond of the 375 Ruger. 20 inch barrel goes from perfect to perfect and handy! The 375 is actually easier on small things than most of the manglems. take for instance coon and small feral pigs!

In my opinion, the only folks who need more are elephant hunting PH’s and guides in elephant country.

As Taylor pointed out, the bigger bores do knock out or turn animals with slightly less than perfect shots.

Not needed if the client does his job, and not needed if the shooter is a perfect shot, but it’s a little more margin with screw ups at close range.

For a client, it pure want, as opposed to need.

It has been noted before that advances in bullet technology have extended the range and "punch" of nearly all the hunting calibers.
When I spend some time reading John Taylor, it is interesting to note how many cartridges he encountered that ruined their reputations based solely on improper bullet design.
Now that I am about to get back into the 9.3 game, I wonder if these might also be all that most of us need. Wonder if Saeed has ever necked down his .375/404 to .366.

mstewart44,

The answer to your questions is a resounding NO. Having said that I do think the 416's upward are just a bigger hammer but best reserved for the more experienced DG hunter. I've had more than one novice client take a rifle to Africa that they really weren't comfortable with and their experience was just what you might expect. I think there is far to much machismo associated with DG rifles. Hunters sometimes overload themselves thinking you need a cannon in order to have hunted.

I had a novice client that mentioned that recoil was an issue. I suggested a 375 with a break. His response was that would be "too gay". OK! He took a 416 Rigby and wounded every buffalo he shot at retrieving none.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It has been noted before that advances in bullet technology have extended the range and "punch" of nearly all the hunting calibers.
When I spend some time reading John Taylor, it is interesting to note how many cartridges he encountered that ruined their reputations based solely on improper bullet design.
Now that I am about to get back into the 9.3 game, I wonder if these might also be all that most of us need. Wonder if Saeed has ever necked down his .375/404 to .366.

I can see logic in the 9.3 X 62 but I can't see any in the bullet diameter. You simply reduce the number of bullets available to you.

Mike, you can get a wide variety of Woodleigh, Barnes, Nosler, Swift and Hornady bullets in .366, just to mention a few. No, not the selection you get in .375, but plenty good, I think.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Mike, you can get a wide variety of Woodleigh, Barnes, Nosler, Swift and Hornady bullets in .366, just to mention a few. No, not the selection you get in .375, but plenty good, I think.

Ok Bill. So I neck a 375 H&H to 366. I lose some bullet choice, what do I gain?

Need? Probably not. Otherwise, the game depts. of the various African countries would not have allowed/settled mostly on that caliber as an acceptable minimum. But what does minimum mean? It means it will get the job done, safely, as in your question. So, there ya'go.

But 'minimum' also implies there is perhaps better. Otherwise the word 'minimum' would not be used in the legal description of calibers allowed for DG.

I've only taken two Buffalo with a 375H&H (300 gr.) but they were already dead when I approached and my PHs asked me to put in an insurance shot. The initial one shot killed both Buffalo. So, the 375 was certainly enough.

I have also taken five Buffalo with my 404 Jeffery and 458 Lott. I can't help but like and 'feel' these two calibers and bullets were better (400 gr. and 500 gr. respectively). No way to prove that, and I was happily impressed with my one shot kills on those two Buffalo with my 375. Gave me greater respect for the 375.

Need vs. like? For my hunting of Buffalo, here's what I like. A two rifle battery of a scoped 375 for long distance and an open sighted 40+ rifle for close-in. That, is my main use for a 375 on DG. YMMV.

For an expert opinion, Saeed and African PHs thoughts would carry MUCH more weight than mine obviously. The problem with that however, is the numerous various calibers all of these persons have chosen to carry themselves! And if the 375 is indeed enough, for every DG occasion, why do so many PHs carry larger bores? Food for thought I guess...

Mike, no gain at all -- a slight loss in punch and a slight gain in ballistic coefficient. Just saying if you already have one of the 9.3s, you don't need to run out and buy a .375 H&H, which is a fabulous cartridge.

Karamojo shot Brontasaurus with a .177 pellet gun.

On elephants I think it makes a difference. You have to have the perfect shot placement as opposed to good shot placement. I would take a shoulder shot with a .500 caliber (and have taken it) on an elephant but would hesitate to do the same with a .375 H&H. Of course, because I haven't done it I can't be sure that it would not work. It is not a risk I would be willing to take unless someone else paid the trophy fee in case the animal was lost.

Taylor said the same thing when I was re-reading his book the other day when discussing taking shoulder shots with calibers over .400.

The more game I have shot made me a believer in heavier for caliber bullets.

Then bigger bores what ever that means.

When standing in the thick stuff looking for a large critter that has taken a dislike to you.

A lot of rifles feel small.

Does any man really NEED more gun than a 375 H&H?

Depends on the man....

Actually, I would be very happy to hunt with my 30/404, anything that walks on the face of this earth.

But it is not legal.

So I use 375/404 just to be legal.

I have absolutely, positively, no doubts at all that it will kill any animal I shoot at.

I will leave the 600 Nitro Express for stupid idiots like Mark Sullivan to use!

Why are people so fixated on the 375 H&H?real guns start at .4 anyways

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
Why are people so fixated on the 375 H&H?real guns start at .4 anyways

Might be true for those who cannot shoot straight, and hope the slightly bigger hole will make up for their disabilities!

What does NEED have to do with it??

The more things I shoot with a 375 (H&H/WBY/RUM) the more impressed I am.

They just plain work.

I have rifles from 17 to 700.

I am also working on 12 and 14 calibers!

But for my hunting so called dangerous game, the 375/404 has served me, and many others, perfectly!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
Why are people so fixated on the 375 H&H?real guns start at .4 anyways

Might be true for those who cannot shoot straight, and hope the slightly bigger hole will make up for their disabilities!

Smaller calibers for people who cannot handle the bigger ones

Wrong forum, big bores start at 500

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
When silly questions like this appear, it becomes more obvious that some folks have gone stir crazy.

Perhaps,we can get Phil Shoemaker to chime in here.I don't remember his exact words but something like the 458 knocks the bears down faster and they stay down longer than with less powerful cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by brair:
Perhaps,we can get Phil Shoemaker to chime in here.I don't remember his exact words but something like the 458 knocks the bears down faster and they stay down longer than with less powerful cartridges.

Another load of bloody bullshit!

The gun you really NEED is the one you're totally comfortable with and can count on when the chips are down. The caliber is of secondary importance.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
mstewart44,

The answer to your questions is a resounding NO. Having said that I do think the 416's upward are just a bigger hammer but best reserved for the more experienced DG hunter. I've had more than one novice client take a rifle to Africa that they really weren't comfortable with and their experience was just what you might expect. I think there is far to much machismo associated with DG rifles. Hunters sometimes overload themselves thinking you need a cannon in order to have hunted.

I had a novice client that mentioned that recoil was an issue. I suggested a 375 with a break. His response was that would be "too gay". OK! He took a 416 Rigby and wounded every buffalo he shot at retrieving none.

Mark

Not saying the 375 wouldn't have killed his buffalo like lightening. But the blame on this one is the blankety blank that didn't shoot his 416 enough to be able to hit well with it.
The 416 isn't a hard kicking rifle so the guy must have just plain not practiced.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
The gun you really NEED is the one you're totally comfortable with and can count on when the chips are down. The caliber is of secondary importance.

Exactly.

quote:

Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."

Another stupid and senseless statement!

What difference does the size of the bullet make if you cannot hit the animal in the right place?

I honestly cannot imagine how anyone can make such a statement.

Killing an animal one has to destroy vital organs.

The size of the bullet is totally immaterial.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
When silly questions like this appear, it becomes more obvious that some folks have gone stir crazy.

Shaken, not stirred please.