Then there are some that can kill two stones with one bird.

There is no question that any and all .375s are medium bores.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
There is no question that any and all .375s are medium bores.

Mike,

The 375 bore is where things change in real life. Just looks at the M70 in 375 and compare price to 338 and down. In Weatherby, with the 378 based calibres the 378, 416 and 460 are not available in the lower priced Mark Synthetic/Fibreglass versions.

The M70 comes with open sights.

In short rifles change when you jump from 338 to 375 bore.

Many threads both on American and Australian forums will start with "I just got my first big bore" and then the opening post will say it is a 375 of some sort.

The majority of people, the commercial reality and "legal dangerous game calibres" all point to the 375 as being a big bore.

You ALWAYS need another gun!

In a different age the .375 was a small-bore, used for rook and rabbit rifles, and the .450-bore was barely a "medium."
The .38-cal was the usurper of the .45-cal at midrange target shooting in that same age.
Nowadays, with modern propellants and bullets the .375 H&H rifle truly gets the "big bore" job done.

And the SAAMI-chambered .458 Winchester Magnum (at same or shorter COL and same or lower pressure than the .458 Lott)
truly whips the SAAMI-chambered .458 Lott with bullets of 350-grain and heavier monometal copper and brass construction.

Non illegitimi carborundum.

Mike, anything a .375 can do, a .338 can do pretty damn nearly as well.

So, is a .338 a big bore?

Big bores start with a four, or better, I must say, without any doubt, that a true big bore begins with a five.

But having a four as the first number is the minimum.

Hell, man, the .30-30 starts with a three!

I am in the 375 H&H is a bigbore camp, simply as it gets the popular vote as one.
'
This thread and all the threads listing '375H&H ' on 'bigbore forums' across the entire internet are proof in the pudding, it belongs.

If 338's start appearing like 375 on bigbore forums let me know.

In my book to be a bigbore it needs all the following.

1. Decent Calibre and footpounds
2. Popular vote as a bigbore.
3. Be continually remarked in gun articles as an African game calibre "Overpowered for all but the largest North American game"
4. Cause a significant swelling in the pants when mentioned or shown to people with 'normal guns', probably more important than the other 3 put together.

There have been more buffalo killed with a 375 H&H than all the rest combined I suspect..

I personally have shot a lot of buffalo with the 375 H&H, but I probably shot more with a 404 or 416, but I never could determine they were any better than a .375..If I had to find fault with a 375 it would be on frontal shots that slipped off to the side and skidded between the shoulder and rib cage wounding the animal, Ive seen that on two occasions, and never with any other caliber?? but I would never feel uncomfortable with a 375 on any animal, including elephant..

It popular to say its not a stopper, BS on that it will stop anything with a proper shot placement..To start with a "stopper" is something to hold water in a tub and a brain or spine shot is a stopper on buffalo..

When Weatherby start offering the 378 in the cheap syntectic Mark Vs like they do for the 30/378 and 338/378 I will start to think 375 bore is not a "big bore"

When Winchester offer their Safari Express in 338 and down then I will start lecturing people the 375 is not a big bore

I was just trollin ya know ...

The only buffalo I ever wounded was in Saeeds camp with Pierre von Tonder..I was hunting with Peirres brother in law Richard..we were at the bottom of a high mountain almost straight up, and a bull was looking at us from the edge of the cliff..We decied to both shoot at about the same time on the count of 3, it was about 150 yards, Richard had his 458 Lott or Ackley whatever with solids, I had a .470 with a solid and a soft..We both shot and the bull disappeared, so we climbed the mountain and the tracker and the rest of us couldn't find any tracks on the slick rock on top, after an hour or two we found a few droplets of blood and the boys started tracking, but after about 3 hours lost the track, decided since only that small amount of blood he sure wasn't hurt, and we were shooting big big bores..We abandoned the chase to come back the next day..As it happened Saeed and Pierre needed to hunt the area and would keep an eye out for the bull..Sure enough the noticed the vultures and found the bullabout 5 miles from where we shot him.both of our shots crisscrossed the bull in the heart/lung area mine from the front and Richards as the bull turned..The Lions ate all but the head that night, so they took pictures and packed the head out..which the proudly put out for all to see that evening telling about this big bull they had killed that day, later in the evening they confessed and that cackle of Saeeds made trees bend, crocs go to the bottom of the river and a Hippo charge near camp. The point of all this is just because your shooting a huge bored gun, does not mean that you will always tumble a buffalo like one would a rabbit with a 22-250, so "enough gun" doesn't mean squat on Dangerous Game, Why did the bull live that long, it just happens, was it because we used solids? I think not, Ive seen as many buffalos shot with solids as softs and never saw one go more than a 100 yards so shot..Ive seen one bull go two days lung shot with a 375 and a 416..I shot my largest bull with a .416 Remington and found a large bore bullet incased in a baseball size callous several years prior to my killing him..it was a 375 300 gr. Swift bullet, and the lungs had heeled with scar tissue giving the impression of him having 4 lungs. He was fat an in his prime, and very cranky and looking for us when my 416 killed him with a frontal shot coming our direction..I refer to it as a half assed charge. or .5

All this caliber stuff etc is great conversation, the truth of all of it is "shit happens" end of story. and no Saeed and Pierre will never let me live it down, but they had the best tracker, we had the cook!

The question was, Does anyone really need more gun than a 375 H&H? It's legal and proven for all DG so the answer is......no.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
The question was, Does anyone really need more gun than a 375 H&H? It's legal and proven for all DG so the answer is......no.

Hah! Would you say the same thing when more than 10,000 lbs. of elephant is a few yards away and coming fast!?

I don’t think so.

That's a pretty good time to change your thinking, but Ive felt the same with my .470!!!

Something overlooked by many when it comes to DG, is they get all et up with a big hole in the muzzle, and fantastic muzzle velocity..Whats overlooked?

The return to battery after you pull the trigger...The 50 calibers for instance can numb your senses, I know some claim otherwise, but its a fact and the more recoil and muzzle rise the slower you return to battery, Ive seen these big bores twist out of the shooters hands, Ive seen them cause a step back and different degrees of stumble, scab a hand on a tree, and seen the butt stock slip under the arm and that's a hoot, and that's just off hand, maybe more incidents..Makes a decent case for the .375 and 416 IMO..but to each his own. but something we should take into consideration.

Another question is will many people be able to afford more than a 375H&H shortly.

The damage done to the world economy, my bet is luxurious passtimes like accumulating massive rifles will become more like it used to be- only the higher level earners in society can afford it. There will be a second group who were always there, the real hardcore enthusiasts, but doing more like they used to- scraping and working extra hours to get those 1-2 big guns.

I see a lot of middle class level folks, in Australia at least, the usual family keeping their head just above mortgage rates and dissolving the salary on kids phones, data, takeout etc etc yet they still swipe a credit card to have a new toy teleported into their collection 4-5 times a year. I think that market sector will be dead as the dodo, and not just guns, for a whole lot of hobbies.


My bet is the 375 will be around for the same reason it stuck around- does the job, modest cost, brass is a level down costwise from the next class up. Also its main selling point 'versatility', which will all talk about, but have never had to apply, may come into play. In that you can use just one gun for a whole lot of hunting.

Very good comments from Ray and Karl above.

My 505 Gibbs will take me almost vertical on recoil, unlike my 404 Jeffery. Perhaps 'huskier' men can better control that level of recoil, but I am nearly 70 years old and I weigh 160lbs.

I hadn't thought much about what Karl brought up, but I can see his point; costs in both rifles and ammo are much cheaper in 375 than any caliber higher in safari type rifles. Added to Ray's comment, it would make the 375 very attractive to some.

Still, I would prefer my 404 Jeffery or 458 Lott over my 375s for Buffalo and larger DG, unless I need a scope for the shot. If the distance is long enough, I have handed off my open sighted 40 calibers for my scoped 375, and never regretted the decision. I've only done that twice, but they were both one shot kills on Buffalo with my 375 H&H, and I was very grateful for their service. The 375 is certainly 'enough gun'.

All one has to do is read Cal’s hunt report with Mark Sullivan.

Two big bore fanatics who could not kill a buffalo all day!

As I mentioned before, hunters use a gun they can handle and kill with with one shot.

I leave the big ones to those who wish to brag how big their whatsit is!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

As I mentioned before, hunters use a gun they can handle and kill with with one shot.

I leave the big ones to those who wish to brag how big their whatsit is!

So true Saeed, and it ties in with what I was saying. The guys getting the biggest guns were making a statement in the day. I remember being 20 and knowing I had to get a 585 built because I saw a picture of the case in a Petersens hunting article. This was pre-internet, information scarce, calling old US numbers in faded gun articles at night because of the time difference-I bugged everyone, even tracked down PO Ackley to his prior addresses to be told too late he is dead. These days any guy can swipe a credit card with AHR and wait for the bigdickboomer to materialise without much effort. You should have to earn the ability to brag about that sort of thing, like we did!

I think that's just "little man syndrome" Saeed, you are tiny right? I have a 375 Weatherby and a 500 Jeffery. I just like shooting the 500 more. I also love my ancient BDL in 270 Win and have hunted and killed many elk and bears with it. To each his own, but you don't need to be insulting

Saeed has struck a nerve.
Too funny.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I think that's just "little man syndrome" Saeed, you are tiny right? I have a 375 Weatherby and a 500 Jeffery. I just like shooting the 500 more. I also love my ancient BDL in 270 Win and have hunted and killed many elk and bears with it. To each his own, but you don't need to be insulting

I am very sorry if you have felt that I have insulted you.

It was never my intention.

But I am a very realistic man.

I use whatever is best for my intended purpose.

And my 375/404 has proven me right.

I think I actually shoot a lot more big bore rifles than most people, but for hunting?

I like a rifle that can do it all.

Shooting a lion from about 10 yards, to shooting an eland at 500 yards.

My 375/404 did both.

With one shot each!

Someone mentioned that the lion was a bit close. I said it did not matter, he is already did on his feet

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I think that's just "little man syndrome" Saeed, you are tiny right? I have a 375 Weatherby and a 500 Jeffery. I just like shooting the 500 more. I also love my ancient BDL in 270 Win and have hunted and killed many elk and bears with it. To each his own, but you don't need to be insulting

You do realise Saeed owns a 577 trex and 700nitro right? and that you are the only one who has actually insulted anywone so far on this thread..

I use my 460 Weather Magnum to shoot pigeons and seagulls with!

But animals that can actually skin me alive, I use a 375!

Lions, leopards, buffalo, elephants and duikers, I use my 375/404!

I have no idea how many very dangerous game animals I have shot, but several hundreds.

So they all died with mostly a single shot from my minimum caliber 375/404!

Those ignorant animals have not read what the experts say!

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

As I mentioned before, hunters use a gun they can handle and kill with with one shot.

I leave the big ones to those who wish to brag how big their whatsit is!

These days any guy can swipe a credit card with AHR and wait for the bigdickboomer to materialise without much effort.

You two are starting to sound just like the penis-obsessed anti-gun crowd!

You need to get over it.

Even Freud had to admit that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

It's the Indian
Not the arrow

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
It's the Indian
Not the arrow

But on forums such as this Phil, the question still remains,,, how BIG of an arrow?

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
It's the Indian
Not the arrow

But on forums such as this Phil, the question still remains,,, how BIG of an arrow?

I love it!

quote:

You two are starting to sound just like the penis-obsessed anti-gun crowd!

You need to get over it.

Even Freud had to admit that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

The penis obsessesed anti-gun crowd? Are they like a break away group or internal department of the regular anti-gun crowd? We have enough problems in Australia with normal anti gunners, let alone people coveting my tockley.


Michael but what is really behind this perception that anti-gunners want penises? Would you like to talk about it. Relax and start at the beginning. Did you have a happy childhood?

I have a friend who loves air rifles.

The bigger and more powerful it is, he wants it.

I was trying to convince him that accuracy is the thing he should go for.

He kept insisting that he needs powerful air guns to shoot crows etc.

He was here one day, and I thought of showing him what an accurate air gun can do.

I took a match air gun, 17 caliber, not powerful at all, but absolutely deadly accurate.

We found two doves sting by our pond, may about 25 meters away.

I shot one off hand in the head.

It dropped right there.

Not much sound from the rifle.

The other one flew up about a foot and landed again.
I shot it in the head too.

Both are dead.

Then we saw a crow sitting at the top of tree about 70 meters away.

I aimed above him, and hit him in the head.

He dropped stone dead!

My friend was speechless.

Saeed, I don’t doubt you for one minute.

But I must say that a .22–250 works much better.

Beyond any doubt.

The only problem with head shots on small birds is that you often can't tell if you scored a hit. I once took a shot at a sparrow on the ground at 100 yards with a .243 that way and was amazed that it didn't move at all. I considered a second shot, but instead went down range and found a 6mm hole in both sides of the head.

AZ nailed it, simply shoot a 20 mm and be done with it or if your a light caliber flunky that can't handle recoil go with what you can shoot, a 50 BMG, it may not be a "stopper" but it'll work with proper bullet construction..sound familiar to me btw...

If we didn't have rifles larger than .375, we wouldn't be able to bitch about recoil...

Not if you can shoot!

I have no doubt that my 470 double hammered buffalo better than my .375, BUT both killed the buffalo in every case, oh dear what am I to believe??

I think this comes into the "each to his own category"? I note all the stories ended in a dead animal. So that's the ultimate goal.

While this dates me, it's like comparing Rachel Welch to Twiggy. Either would work in a pinch, but I'd have gone with Rachel Welch every time.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I think this comes into the "each to his own category"? I note all the stories ended in a dead animal. So that's the ultimate goal.

While this dates me, it's like comparing Rachel Welch to Twiggy. Either would work in a pinch, but I'd have gone with Rachel Welch every time.

Never heard of Rachel Welch. Do you mean Raquel?