Just thinking out loud here.
I'm wondering if there is a common 50 caliber dangerous game cartridge that could also fire the 50BMG bullets. I know the velocity would not be as high with those big long bullets, but they might make up for it in B.C.
I'm envisioning a .50 something or other that could smack an elephant at close range, and reach out there for longer shots with the more aerodynamic bullets. Even if they were not going that fast when they hit, they would still drill at least a .50 hole.
What do you guys think?

well, Frank I think long range DG is an oxymoron don't you? If they're far away they're not dangerous are they????

My 500A-2 will drive 647 grain milsurps (right) 2350 fps. They must be single loaded.

quote:

long range DG is an oxymoron

Affirmative ...

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

long range DG is an oxymoron

Affirmative ...

silliness .. man is the most dangerous "game" there is ...

a DG that can also shoot long range, oh lets say like a 375 or 416, has always been a goal..

and a .510 that can also be used with high BC bullets is fun.

in short, its great to have a rifle that is more than a one trick pony ..

the next level of silliness will be to say a dg can't be scoped...

then some luditte will state it can't have ironsights

then someone will step right up and ask why do we use cartrdiges, when OBVIOUSLY a 4 bore front stuffer will kill them all.. does today, still..

then some bright lad will come along and say why use a gun, when a big enough stick will do it...

Yes, you can have a long range DG gun, the 375 proves that with every round fired ...

Drinkin' your own shine again Jeffe ...?? That's the most nonsensical ramblin' diatribe I've seen you post in a while ...

<whatever>

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
<whatever>

Guess I was right ...

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
well, Frank I think long range DG is an oxymoron don't you? If they're far away they're not dangerous are they????

X2!

Frank,
Yep, if DG is long distance, it ain't dangerous, unless it is Homo sapiens.

However, using your DG sporting 50 with BMG bullets builds shooting ability and character!

Choose one, preferably one of the true magnums,
bearing in mind that a .510/460Wby of one sort or another is most practical,
such as one of these few, in chronological order of development:

500 Jeffery
50 Buhmiller
500 Weatherby Magnum
.510 Wells
500 A-Square
.510 JAB
50 Peacekeeper
500 AHR
500 Mbogo
or whatever floats your boat ...

Close range DG use of all the above is well recommended except for the 500 Jeffery.

All, even the 500 Jeffery, would make a dandy varmint rifle, if properly throated for the long and pointy bullets.

Get the 750-grain Hornady A-Max up to 2150 fps.
If it is zeroed 3 inches high at 100 yards,
you will only need a 5-mil holdover at 942 yards.
That's how mine are sighted for varmint scopes.
Zeroed at 100 yards for DG scope and open sights.

2.5X Leupold or open sights for DG.

16X mil-dot scope for varmints,
and don't let the scope bite you.
Prone shooting is not recommended.
Shooting from a sit with a long bipod or short sticks is good.

1:12" Twist might be most ideal for varmint accuracy with the slow-moving varmint loads of BMG bullets.
Yes, 1:15" twist is best with the full 50 BMG velocities.
1:10" twist is great for my varmint work at 1000 yards or less.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

Not that I would kill an elephant at 600 yards but has anyone done a 500 T-Rex? a 510-577 T-Rex? seems that would be a long range packyderm smacker.

How fast does the 500 RLG push them 750's???

Dear God, cant believe anyone is giving this serious consideration. 90% of the thrill of hunting DG is getting CLOSE. If you cant smell- em, you shouldn't shoot- em. If that wasn't the case I'd frankly rather shoot ground squirrels at 300 yrds with a.17 rem. Why would you even think about killing an Ele at 600 yrds?-Rob

That wasn't my point at all.

I was thinking the pointy bullets with the higher b.c. could be used on plains game.

So use the fat bullets for close up stuff with as much velocity as they can get.


A 750 gr A-max is going to do a good job on a zebra or whatever, even if it is only going 1300fps at impact.
That 750 gr A-max would probably cover a lot of ground at killing speed, provided the animal is not too big.

If I was talking about killing elephant from a distance then a Barrett .50 bmg would easily kill an elephant with authority, from a very long distance.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Dear God, cant believe anyone is giving this serious consideration. 90% of the thrill of hunting DG is getting CLOSE. If you cant smell- em, you shouldn't shoot- em. If that wasn't the case I'd frankly rather shoot ground squirrels at 300 yrds with a.17 rem. Why would you even think about killing an Ele at 600 yrds?-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
If you cant smell- em, you shouldn't shoot- em. - Rob

Reading this line brought back vivid memories of that very experience just two months ago. The adrenaline rush of being broomstick distance from elephant and Cape buffalo is incomparable.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
well, Frank I think long range DG is an oxymoron don't you? If they're far away they're not dangerous are they????

X2!

x3

Most dangerous game is shot at close range, plus most of the country where dangerous game lives is not condusive to long range shooting - too much brush and trees, etc.

Think of it this way, gents

a DG rifle of .510 caliber (GOOD IDEA)

that can ALSO be shot accurately at long range, just like John Moses Browning envisioned it.

(GOOD IDEA)

If it can be done as both -- BONUS

I read the question as, can a long range 50 ALSO be a DG rifle?

YES...

and if you can't shoot your .5xx at long range, it doesn't mean no one can

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I read the question as, can a long range 50 ALSO be a DG rifle?

I read it as, can a DG rifle also be a long range 50. Or in other words, can my DG rifle do double duty on longer shots, presumably at other game (which was confirmed above).

I don't think most folks gave the original post a complete read, or any thought.

Macifej, I got jeffe's post too. And he was right.

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I read the question as, can a long range 50 ALSO be a DG rifle?

I read it as, can a DG rifle also be a long range 50. Or in other words, can my DG rifle do double duty on longer shots, presumably at other game (which was confirmed above).

I don't think most folks gave the original post a complete read, or any thought.

Macifej, I got jeffe's post too. And he was right.

WHAT?

Someone didn't read,think,or answer the question;on an internet forum?

I think my original question was not very well stated, I'll re-do it, now.

Can I take a .50 dangerous game rifle, say a double, which is used with big fat bullets for elephants and buff up close, can I load that same gun with bullets for the .50bmg and stretch out the distance for plains game like zebra?

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I read the question as, can a long range 50 ALSO be a DG rifle?

I read it as, can a DG rifle also be a long range 50. Or in other words, can my DG rifle do double duty on longer shots, presumably at other game (which was confirmed above).

I don't think most folks gave the original post a complete read, or any thought.

Macifej, I got jeffe's post too. And he was right.

Wow, that's a great list. I don't know anything about those cartridges.
If they all would make a suitable dangerous game round, which is the least complicated to use?
I would expect shorter rounds are easier to find actions for. And there is brass availability.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Frank,
Yep, if DG is long distance, it ain't dangerous, unless it is Homo sapiens.

However, using your DG sporting 50 with BMG bullets builds shooting ability and character!

Choose one, preferably one of the true magnums,
bearing in mind that a .510/460Wby of one sort or another is most practical,
such as one of these few, in chronological order of development:

500 Jeffery
50 Buhmiller
500 Weatherby Magnum
.510 Wells
500 A-Square
.510 JAB
50 Peacekeeper
500 AHR
500 Mbogo
or whatever floats your boat ...

Close range DG use of all the above is well recommended except for the 500 Jeffery.

All, even the 500 Jeffery, would make a dandy varmint rifle, if properly throated for the long and pointy bullets.

Get the 750-grain Hornady A-Max up to 2150 fps.
If it is zeroed 3 inches high at 100 yards,
you will only need a 5-mil holdover at 942 yards.
That's how mine are sighted for varmint scopes.
Zeroed at 100 yards for DG scope and open sights.

2.5X Leupold or open sights for DG.

16X mil-dot scope for varmints,
and don't let the scope bite you.
Prone shooting is not recommended.
Shooting from a sit with a long bipod or short sticks is good.

1:12" Twist might be most ideal for varmint accuracy with the slow-moving varmint loads of BMG bullets.
Yes, 1:15" twist is best with the full 50 BMG velocities.
1:10" twist is great for my varmint work at 1000 yards or less.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I read the question as, can a long range 50 ALSO be a DG rifle?

I read it as, can a DG rifle also be a long range 50. Or in other words, can my DG rifle do double duty on longer shots, presumably at other game (which was confirmed above).

I don't think most folks gave the original post a complete read, or any thought.

Macifej, I got jeffe's post too. And he was right.

Call me grammatically challenged but most of what Jeffe says after dark makes no sense to me. Besides I can't see well enough anymore to read most of this crap.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
Can I take a .50 dangerous game rifle, say a double, which is used with big fat bullets for elephants and buff up close, can I load that same gun with bullets for the .50bmg and stretch out the distance for plains game like zebra?

Frank,

I don't own or shoot a double other than two SxS 12 gauge shotguns...but I'll take a shot at this. It would certainly be easier with a single barrel bolt rifle or even an OxU double than a SxS double but I don’t see why it couldn’t be done.

I seem to recollect that many of the smokeless powder African hunters utilized SxS double rifles chambered in medium to heavy-medium calibers for plains game up through buffalo.

So to answer your question, I don’t see why a 50 caliber SxS double rifle properly regulated to fire spitzer nose shaped bullets could not be utilized to hunt zebra at longer distance(s); limiting factor being your ability to accurately/reliability hit the zebra kill zone at this longer distance(s).

quote:

I think my original question was not very well stated, I'll re-do it, now.

Can I take a .50 dangerous game rifle, say a double, which is used with big fat bullets for elephants and buff up close, can I load that same gun with bullets for the .50bmg and stretch out the distance for plains game like zebra?

What range do you want to shoot zebras?
Maybe you want the 510-505 Gibs with hotloads and TSX bullets

If you're limited to a double and that pressure, I don't think you gain anything by changing to a spitzer bullet shape. The starting velocity is still the limiting factor.

But you can practice, practice and practice more and become a good long range shot with a good double and regular softs, you just need to be good at ranging game. My friend dropped a really nice kudu at 157 yds with his 500 NE K gun and iron sights.

150 Yards, even 200 with a big bore double isn't out of the question.

As the previous poster said, I would want to be good at estimating the range.

But I would also like to go after a load of pigs etc and shoot them at distance first to make sure.

I did some quick and dirty calculations.
If my math is right, the big pointy bullet if fired at 2100fps will be going 1730fps at 500 yards, with 16 inches of drop. That should be quite adequate for plains size game.
Those big ballistic coefficients make a lot of difference.z
I think if I had the money for it I would look at doing this project for fun. It would do everything my .458 win mag will do, and more.
The downside would have to be a LOT more recoil.

Why not do a 416 Rigby
Proven up close and can reach out.

quote:

If my math is right, the big pointy bullet if fired at 2100fps will be going 1730fps at 500 yards, with 16 inches of drop.

That's 16 MOA of drop, or 85".

OOps, you're right.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:

quote:

If my math is right, the big pointy bullet if fired at 2100fps will be going 1730fps at 500 yards, with 16 inches of drop.

That's 16 MOA of drop, or 85".

There would most be a .50 hole. But where are you going to shoot it at. I always thought between the eyes alittle high. Isn't the rifle a little heavy.

dupe

I might add that a.50BMG bullet at 500 yrds started at 2100 will not only have 7ft of drop but what about wind? into a 10mph wind you'll have about 3 ft of drift. Makes for a tough first shot!-Rob

After watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail and seeing what a rabbit can do to a man, I only use my 50bmg on the jackrabbits around here. Short range is just more impressive, long range is more of a challenge. My favorite projo with them is Redtip tracers because you not only kill them but cook them at the same time. Those bluetips and silvertips are fun too though.

If I had a holy-handgrenade it might be a different story.

It should all be available on DVD this winter, from bunnies to bison. And my wife's pronghorn is on video as well with a 50 (but the pronghorn aren't as dangerous as the jackrabbits).

Actually, may main point was to show how much velocity the bullet would have that far out.
I was thinking more of the 200 to 300 yard range. The bullet would have plenty of speed. I'd have to look at the numbers again to see what the drop would be at 300yds,but I think it would be manageable. I tape drop charts to the stock of my rifle to make things more simple.
I am GUESSING that plains game shots are in the 200 to 300yard range in Africa, from what I have read on this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I might add that a.50BMG bullet at 500 yrds started at 2100 will not only have 7ft of drop but what about wind? into a 10mph wind you'll have about 3 ft of drift. Makes for a tough first shot!-Rob

I thought big doubles were generally regulated to a particular load?

Did you see this recommendation by boom stick?

http://www.barnesbullets.com/p...ts/rifle/tsx-bullet/

nice pointy 525 grain bullets for the .505 gibbs.

Should have no problem shooting out to 300 yards with these and no crazy extra way too long to feed 750 grain target bullets. Good question, good discussion and I think here is one viable answer.

These TSX bullets are being discussed in .375 right now in another thread, sounding like real good killers:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/4611016021

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
well, Frank I think long range DG is an oxymoron don't you? If they're far away they're not dangerous are they????

X2!

X3

Frank,
You got those velocities right.
The Hornady A-Max 750-grainer has a BC = 1.050,
so started at 2150 fps MV it is indeed about 1300 fps at 1000 yards. Supersonic still. No buffeting transition to subsonic yet.

With the .416 Barret bullets available, boomer has a good suggestion with the .416 Rigby.
However that BC is only about 0.9,
for the .416/395-grain bullet.
About like the .408 Cheyenne Tactical,
yet another candidate.
But the .416 has lots of light hunting bullets available.
You might get the .416/395-grainer up to 2700 fps in the Rigby or Weatherby .416,
instead of 3250 fps in the .416 Barrett.

My list of 50's could go on to add the shorter ones like the Van Horn, and the 500 AR,
but they do not have the oomph to get the 2150 fps with 750-grainers.

The .505 Gibbs based .510s as well could be added, like the .510 Snipe Tac which claims 2350 fps for the 750-grainer.
I guess if the barrel is long enough ...

However those Gibbs-based cases should be limited to 55K psi in a sporter, due to bolt thrust issues.

The .408 Chey-Tac and 50 Snipe Tac and such need a 50 BMG-capable action to do the the near 70K psi work that their brass cases are capable of.

The 500 NE double would be a real dud for varmints with the pressure limits created by the action and the brass.
And the twist would be 1:15" standard,
not the best for sub 50 BMG velocities.
And of course you would have to use a scope and only one barrel could be sighted,
or the rifle would need re-regulation.
It would likely need re-stocking too, after the 750-grainers cracked the wood.

A 500 NE single shot would also be a dud, incapable of the higher pressures.

Best one?
Obviously it is the .510/460 Weatherby based cartridges,
there are many.

Let me know if you find a higher BC than the Hornady A-Max.

The Hornady A-Max is like a giant Winchester Silvertip with a pointy aluminum tip riding on top of a soft lead core in a gilding metal jacket.
Great hunting bullet.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits."

"Brother Maynard, the Book of Armaments ...,"

Well, it has has gotten silly thus far

Mark