Yes, that is a classic beautiful gun Rob
built. I hope he gets it to Africa to
show you fellows a great falling block
rifle/shotgun in action.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Pierre vd Walt:
Bent. Thanks - looking forward to it. Can you send design speci in mean time? .425 Fossdal - is it .435 calibre and how does it compare to .425 WR if that is the case?

It is a .423 on a belted -06 case (.240 Wea'by), lengthended to 68mm. The goal is to reach 2150 fps with a 400 grs bullet. 5+1 in a standard M98, 6 down with a dropped floor-plate.
You will find it here:
http://www.ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/aimasterlist.cgi?sn=LVxUmcWdRq

Hi Pierre.

I was in Norway in July. Shot 21 seals with the 6,5mm Rem Mag. So yes - I am still culling some seals even though I have moved to Denmark

Regarding the 577 - then I haven`t shot any game with it yet. Only an old oak tree.. Shot some 800 grs FN`s at it and all went right through, it measured 110 cm / 43" in diameter

Pierre,

Am sending you some of our data on the 9.5x56/57mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer, data to your bigbore.org e-mail address. We have a number of 9.5 people here in the US.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

Yip - I went to .470 Mbogo site seeing Bwana Estergaard there in all his glory! Downloaded - beginning to pile the questions up!

Robgunbuilder. That 12ga looks 'sirrias' (serious in black african english). Guys - I have an idea but let me first explain where I come from. My first priority in life is to get guys to shoot big bores and come to Africa to enjoy them. My second priority is to collect big bore information, structure it and then make it accessible so that everybody interested in big bores will have lots of info with which to embark upon the big bore adventure. For that reason my main focus initially is to source the fragmented, dispersed and hard to get info on the old English and European big bores. I have published a book on some 31 big bores (errors and all)for the BASA membership. Richard Harland can comment on its value for the Africa based guys. That is also why I act as editor for BASA's Big Bore Journal. Now this is all rather 'sirrias' stuff.
I joined this forum many years ago and never posted a thing as I only visited it once every 6 months, worked through it to learn and then buggered off. I call that 'Forum-paraciticism'.
Since I dared enter the coms side, a bit of a light has gone up for me. I see two things:
1. There are many guys prepared to spend time. expertise and money to try new big bore things for the sheer hell and fun of it. This is mostly US based as proportionally things are cheaper and easier for you. Bless the NRA and population numbers????
2. The above fun side of big bores offer a massive, unique and dynamic base for research, development and most importantly - the excitement of just messing around with big bores. This might very well be more of a saving grace to big bores than trying to only 'popularize' the stuff we use here in Africa in a daily basis.
3. If we don't record, structure and save what you pooor bunch of VD deprived bastards are doing around big bore fun today - it will be lost for posterity.

NOW-back to my idea. The details I will have to send to one of you clever computer kids as this ole intellectually challenged HUN cannot even post a pic on this forum. BUT - How about (if Saheed permits) we at BASA here in Africa (www.bigbore.org) start a page in the Big Bore Journal called the AccurateReloadingFunPage? That page or 2 we then dedicate to what you guys have done. I would need pics, about a 100, words, sketches, tables, whatever and there we record what you guys are doing and screwing. I will insist on photos (dressed, shaved, bathed, frontal, upper third of yourselves standing up with feet on the ground and camera aimed at face. How many times do I read of Grosvenor Wotkins in the old books and wonder whether my brother in law would screw him or kill him?
The idea being to go beyond the ways of the past - but honouring the better ones.
Just one thing about big bores you may or may not like me saying: It is not the size of the gun that saves the day - it is the size of the balls of the man holding it.

Sierra. Thanks man. Only man who has used a 9,5x57mm Mannlicher understands what a magazine is all about! Looking forward as I have not received it yet.

Awraait, awraait - I meant a 1000 words! Jeez these VD-less Yanks have much to say about nothing.

Ulrik - pluck the leaves, count and measure the branches, set a standard and send it to SCI as a new species for introduction. Then go collect a belt with many studs.

Brent. How about:
1. Puting it on a .375 Ruger case;
2. 35-degree shoulder;
3. 95% neck
4. Minimum body taper?

or building the old .425 WR on 404 case without rebated rim. PLease send sketch

Pierre

Hubel458. Will you share the 700 details?

Pierre,

I used to own Wotkyns old Hornet. GA Woody's son lives not too far from me.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Pierre- It is a belted case built from bmg
brass. Two lengths- long 3.87" --short
3.25". Straight case. I've developed loads
in a test barrel and am putting a 3.25
inch gun together now. We hope to have
MRC with their big PH action make barrel threads
a little bigger to use heavier barrels for
the short case. An affordable alternative to
hugely expensive bmg actions, we have
planned. I am working falling block for the long. Another fellow is putting long in a
State Arms BMG action. Another in a AR50
bolt action.Long case can get 1000gr over 3100,
shortcase about 500 fps less. We have a
long running thread on the Big bore forum.
On first page now.Ed.

For my CZ458 Lott shooting 550 bullets I use IMR4320 about 85 grs to get 2210 FPS

jro45. Barrel length? What brand cases do you use and what do they weigh on average with primer in place?

quote:

Originally posted by Pierre vd Walt:
Yip - I went to .470 Mbogo site seeing Bwana Estergaard there in all his glory! Downloaded - beginning to pile the questions up!

Glad to hear it! I am of the very humble opinion that the 470 Mbogo is the most devastatingly practical big bore out there.

I am sure Bwana Estergaard will be very happy to entertain any questions you may have. Make sure to check out all the fun videos on his webpage as well.

Here are some "fun" photos of the 470 Mbogo in use...

Breakin' rocks:


Vaporizing water jugs:


Feelin' the "pow-a":


Like a hot ".470" through butter:



Success in the field:






Cheers,
Canuck

e-mail: staggerino@hotmail.com

continued...










Canuck

Thanks CHanuck

Good Shottistry there, Chris.
If Pierre gets the 470 Mbogo into his next book, then this thread is of great value indeed.
Dave Estergaard has plenty of load data at his site: www.470mbogo.com

I might add that I have a less than maximum load for the 470 Mbogo that gets a 500 grainer up to 2685 fps (RL-15), as well as "Nitro Express Equivalent" load that does about 2150 fps with the same 500-grainer (H4831SC).
The 470 Mbogo can be all that the .475 A&M pretended to be, or as gentle as a 470 Nitro Express.

In fact, any 470 NE load data may be used directly in the 470 Mbogo, with similar results. The two cartridges have nearly the same case capacity and fire the same bullets.
*********************************************************************************************************************************

I did the lightning bolt checkering and epoxy "inlays" on my 470 Mobogo's laminated stock. Makes for a pleasant gripping surface:



The lightning bolt checkering on the other side (done second) did not have any errors to hide. Above you see the results of my first self-lesson in checkering. Of course the checkering was painted over with clear epoxy so it is largely filled in and the points won't break off, and not very functional other than visual. The raised Hammer of Thor and Mbogo Skull and Horns are smooth yet functional and comfortable to grip for my fingers. Similar to finger grooves on a pistol grip.

If I were to checker another laminate, I would cut the lines in one direction only, forget diamond points, make only parallel grooves to fill the chosen pattern. Ray Atkinson has given instruction in this method here.

I don't have the heart to restock this one, it works so well, and it is the most heavily reinforced (by steel and epoxy) rifle stock in the world.

So what if the Dakota rear sight island is on backwards, I like it that way.

quote:

Good Shottistry there, Chris.
If Pierre gets the 470 Mbogo into his next book, then this thread is of great value indeed.

Thanks RIP (for the compliment and contribution!), and yep, I agree!

Pierre, glad you liked the pics. I'll see if I can dig up a few more. I really hope you and Dave Estergaard hook-up to chat about his creation.

Here's another target with a "working load"...one that killed one of my cape buff in 2006...



If you have any questions about the 470 Mbogo that I can help with, or if you would be interested in some anecdotal observations/comments based on my experience with it, I'll be glad to help out (my e-mail is posted above). But you really gotta connect with Dave!

Cheers,
Canuck

Guys - I see the name Lee Precision crop up a lot of times. I would just like to inform everybody that Lee has completed a series of Lee Factory Crimp dies for us at the big bore association (www.bigbore.org) in calibers in 9,3x62mm Mauser
9,3x64mm Brenneke
400 H&H Belted Magnum
416 Rigby
10,75x68mm Mauser
404 Jeffery
425 Westley Richards
458 Belted 3" Express
458 African
460 Weatherby Magnum
500 Jeffery
Now that the tooling has been done, I am quite sure he will be able to sell at good prices. He charged us a damn fair fee.
We have now also developed a multi/all calibre big bore bullet puller which should cost less than US$ 40 to make at your local machine shop. If anybody can tell me how to put pictures on this damn gizzmo I will display some pics.

Canuck - thanks for the info!!!! Much obliged.

Hi Pierre,
I've been on a couple of hunting trips so have not been up to date with this thread. If you would like any further information on the 470 Mbogo you can contact me at destergaard@dccnet.com When I had the rifle that Canuck has now I shot three Cape Buffalo while on my trip. To say the least it is a very impressive cartridge.
Take good care,
Dave

quote:

destergaard@dccnet.com

Will do Dave - I was also off line for a while. THanks in advance. Pierre

GUYS I JUST WANT TOO THANK EVERYBODY WHO HAVE HELPED ME SO FAR VERY MUCH. I HAVE THANKED YOU INDIVIDUALLY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO RECORD THAT MANY OF THE NAMES IN THIS THREAD WENT BEYOND WHAT I COULD REASONABLY HAVE EXPECTED. IT IS APPRECIATED - YOU REALLY ARE A HELPFUL BUNCH OF BIG BORES.

quote:

YOU REALLY ARE A HELPFUL BUNCH OF BIG BORES.

Howdy,
I have posted the info and some (developing) load data on www.ammoguide.com for the 416, 458, 470, and 500 AR... and the 550 express load data is on my website
jeffe