I just finished my 458 Lott and gave it a go this weekend.

So, I have a 416 REM and I'm thinking there can't be that much recoil difference. The 416 is stout, but no issues. I'll be fine with the 458. Both rifles weigh in at 10 pounds.

I was a bit off in that thought. I ran some 500gr solids through it at 2190fps. This one will take some practice for me to get used to.

To all of you fine folks with larger bore rifles, my hat is off to you. I believe that I have found my recoil limit. At least for now. I seem to get stupider with age.

Jeremy

Sounds like it weighs enough, maybe .5 - 1# more. How's your LOP and what recoil pad is on it - make/model/thickness can all make a difference. LOP can be critical with large bore rifles.

Where is it whacking you, cheek or shoulder - they indicate different problems/fixes.

I found mercury recoil reducers fixed my 500 NE by adding weight - it was way too light at 10.5#s. My .458Lott was a RSM, so it was heavy to start with and needed only LOP and a decent recoil pad to make it "shootable" for me.

Hope this helps and good luck.

The Lott is going to hit you no matter what LOP or rifle weight etc...It`s going to come back at you and there is no stopping it.You will pay the price especially if you shoot it often.There is no other way to learn to shoot.The most difficult part of shooting is the pshychological part or learning not to flinch-an almost impossible thing to do,IMO.In the end you have a tool that can get the job done and if you stick with it, the confidence to use it.

Jeremy,

Tolerance to recoil in a heavy kicking caliber like the Lott is simply a matter of practice and continued exposure, assuming the stock fits correctly as Mike describes. The more you shoot it, the easier it will get. Once you build up recoil tolerance, you'll need to practice fairly often to stay proficient with it. However, I've found that developing that initial tolerance is harder than re-establishing it later. So just hang on and keep at it. Pretty soon, it'll be no big deal.

I always reckon start off with some slightly lower velocity loads or a lighter bullet until you get used to the fit and feel of the rifle.

And then work up the loads with the heavier bullets.

Much easier than trying to get rid of a flinch !


And stick a decent recoil pad on it like
a Limbsaver !
.

Remember, recoil is all in your head.




Keith

What I have learned with some help here regarding recoil is:
Have a gun that is custom fit to you
Form is a big deal. Don't limp wrist it, lean into it, pull it into the shoulder pocket.
Push ups! Upper body build can help.
Increase grip strength. Lots of excecises for that.
It is part zen mind over physics in terms of flinch.
You can always have someone slap you to get the adrenaline pumping so you don't fear it or feel it to replicate the thrill of the hunt rush

Jeremy

A few years ago I traded a 300 win mag for a 458 Lott barreled action,it was a Mauser action and my gunsmith installed it in a Bell&Carlson stock. All my other rifles are Mod 70s but the Lott felt good and I bought dies,brass,and a couple hundred bullets.
Hopes were high and then I started shooting it! Maybe it was the stock,maybe it was the 500gr bullets.maybe it wasn't a Mod 70 but whatever it was it beat the shit out of my fingers and the rest of me too.
Before everyone assumes I'm a wimp we shoot my 358 Norma and 425 Express fairly regular but the Lott was just a tad out of my comfort zone. I'm 62 now and 70 grs of powder seems to be my limit,maybe when I'm 70 it will be 60grs!
Oh yes I killed an 8' brown bear about 2 hrs ago with the 425! No bullet recovery with 400gr Woodleighs to date.
Jim

Farbedo

If you can shoot .416 you will shoot just as well .458. 2190fps/500gr is not a hot load and 10 pounds rifle is plenty of weight to tame the recoil.

I'm actually bit surprise that you can tell the recoil difference. If you shoot the .416 at 400gr/2400fps the recoil difference is about 10-12fp???? AND about 1.5fps. in rifle velocity.

Fix this problem first why it is that you feel so big difference in the recoil.

I can notice some difference if it is say 30fp/5fps but not 12fp/1.5fps????

Pyzda

Start off with 405s at 2000 and add a grain every shooting outing. 2400 is easy with that.

WEAR MORE HEARING PROTECTION. No really it will help with recoil perception.

Then, once you have 405, which are cheap, load them up stout. Once those aren't an issue start with 500s at 2000 and work up. 2200-2250 is the actual answer to the perceived problems of the winnag.

YOU CAN DO IT. If you don't have this in your head the rifle will always beat you physically and psychologically.For me it was two things mental control and rifle control.I moved up to a 450 Rigby last year and had the same experience. This is what worked for me now 500's at 2450 are not a problem; my PH recently commented on how comfortable I seemed with the rifle.
Move the stock in closer to your chest, placing it on the point of the deltoid (shoulder muscle) is guaranteed pain.
Get tough with that rifle, really grip that sucker especially with your rear hand. My hands are short and I need to move my foreward grip a little up and over the rifle. Rather than just holding it I torque it in that direction. I torque it in the opposite direction with my rear hand creating 'dynamic balance' this really helps control the rifle not just hold it.
Pull it firmly into your body and don't give it a running start.
This is pure heresy compared to how we are usually told to shoot. I don't claim to be an instant big bore expert;there are loads of members who have far greater experience than me and will likely disagree but this worked for me

Farbedo, I don't have any answers for you. I briefly owned a Ruger No. 1 in this chambering. It hammered me. I put on a Limbsaver and that took some of the pounding out of it, but I never felt I would learn to control the thing, so it went away while my corneas were still firmly attached. This is one of the advantages of a double: there's more recoil-absorbing weight way out there near the muzzles.

I just finished a Lott for a friend at 10.2 lbs
He is a big guy 6'2" 240+. He told me that he can't shoot it very well because the recoil is just more then he can handle. I have a 18 lb 500 A Square that kicks the crap out of me with 500 grain bullets. I also have a 416--Lott--and a Capstick that all are hard for me to shoot. The best way I found to be accurate with them was to install 1.5 oz jewell triggers. I now can shoot all of them under 1 moa 3 shots at 100 yards. Ross

When I first fired one, I thought the .458 Lott kicked hard, too. I think that's the normal reaction whenever anyone steps up in caliber.

But a well-made rifle in .458 Lott should never actually hurt you, as long as you use the right shooting technique.

Nowadays, compared to my .500 A-Square, the .458 Lott seems pretty mild.

I'm not saying that a big rifle like the .458 Lott doesn't bang and buck and jump around more than a lighter one. Of course it does.

But as long as you wrap your hands around it, pull it tight into your shoulder, lean into it, hang on tight and open your stance toward your target, I think you'll find that you'll be able to control it just fine.

Sight it in from a standing position. A Lott from a bench is really stout. I found 450 grain bullets seemed to be a big improvement over 500 grains. It may not make sense when you calculate recoil but it seemed a big improvement for me.

One thing that helps me to master a given rifle is to always own and shoot an even bigger one. My first .458 Win. made the recoil of my .375s feel totally insignificant. My .458 Lott made the .458 Win and also my .416s very comfortable to shoot. Without having a bigger rifle, it was more difficult at first with the Lott.

The bigger gun helps not only psychologically (reduces perceived recoil), but also improves your shooting technique. With a smaller rifle, you may get away with a certain flaw in your technique, although it already makes you uncomfortable. With the bigger gun, you have to eliminate the problem or you will get hurt.

I also use double ear protection (plugs and muffs) when shooting indoors.

Okay guys, based on the thoughts above, I have a question (actually two): I have a #1 in Lott, and two years ago this month I had a discectomy and fusion of my C-4 and C-5 vertebrae. I hadn't had the time to shoot the Lott prior to the surgery and have been working out of state for the last year, so it still hasn't been shot.

I am not particularly recoil sensitive but here goes: 1) would you recommend I shoot the Lott or not, based on the neck surgery, and 2), what about loading cast 500-grainers in the Lott and loading it down, assuming it will group. If so, what would you recommend for a mid-range load?

You can do what some have done and have identical rifles in different carts so the feel is the same for practice and you don't develop a flinch. A twin Lott and 375HH is a good idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Okay guys, based on the thoughts above, I have a question (actually two): I have a #1 in Lott, and two years ago this month I had a discectomy and fusion of my C-4 and C-5 vertebrae. I hadn't had the time to shoot the Lott prior to the surgery and have been working out of state for the last year, so it still hasn't been shot.

I am not particularly recoil sensitive but here goes: 1) would you recommend I shoot the Lott or not, based on the neck surgery, and 2), what about loading cast 500-grainers in the Lott and loading it down, assuming it will group. If so, what would you recommend for a mid-range load?

We are not the ones to be asked this question. It is one for your doctor!

465H&H

Doubless,

What does your surgeon say about shooting hard recoiling rifles? What the Doc says would have a huge bearing on what I shot.

Okay, in retrospect it might have been a stupid question, My MD turned me loose with no restrictions at all after a year, but I know he probably has no idea what kind of recoil a Lott generates. Maybe just chalk this one up to my own hesitation. The Lott has a "recoil reputation", after all...

If he doesn't know about shooting rifles, then I would suggest asking the Dr (or the Surgeon if they are different).

They (C4, C5) are in the area (neck) which gets whipped back under recoil and not 100% sure of what goes on
with fusing vertebrae together but I doubt additional damage would be good.

It's easier to check beforehand anyway !!!

Doubless,

Is your Doc a shooter? If he is , then he surley understands the physics of recoil and its effects on the body. If he gave you the go ahead, work up slow as suggested by others here.

I understand where you're coming from. I have fired exactly one full house 500 grain load in my .458 Win Mag. It's a whole 'nother world at 500 grains and 2100+ fps! But gun fit is important too. On the advice of several members here, I added a slip on recoil pad to it. That gave it a longer length of pull, which markedly improved the recoil. The 350 grain loads went from jarring to "that was great! Give me another." Form is important too. A strong grip on the forend with the butt pulled into your shoulder is important. Don't give it a running start at you. Last, don't believe that you will certainly ever get to the point where it's pleasant to shoot. You might. But you might not. There's more than one member of this board who draws the line at the .416s and calls it good. I'm going to try some more 500 grain loads in my Win Mag, but I'm totally okay with deciding that's just too much for me. I'll probably keep the gun for pig-thumping, but I'm not going to force the issue.

Regards,

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Remember, recoil is all in your head.




Keith

I couldn't agree more. I know people that they can't shoot .270W, 308W. because of the recoil. My son inlaw feels that 16"barrel 30-30W with 170gr factory load kicks the absolute shit out of him. Yet all these people shoot 12G shotguns with no complains. The recoil difference is about a double in the shotguns favour.

My 8.5 pounds, 27" slim barreled Ruger#1 without a muzzle brake in .460Wea on regular diet of COAL 4,2"/735gr/2130fps cast bullets had only one change. The recoil pad was replaced with Pach. Decelerator. The recoil is somewhere in the 160fp/35fps range. It kicks and it kicks hard but I feel there is still a mile to go before I reach my recoil limit. If there is anything to complain about it would be the recoil velocity. I can most definitely tell the recoil difference between this 8.5 pounds Ruger and the 12 pounds .460 Weat. bolt actions. It is like if you compare a waltz vs. heavy metal craze zombie.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:

I found 450 grain bullets seemed to be a big improvement over 500 grains. It may not make sense when you calculate recoil but it seemed a big improvement for me.

I have a 450 Dakota and I dropped down to the 450 grain Barnes TSX bullets in that rifle. Maybe it's psychological but that really seemed to help with the recoil. I don't hot rod it either. I shoot the 450s right at 2400 fps and it's not bad at all. My Dakota with a scope weighs 10.7 pounds. Don't worry about the lighter bullets. I figure that 450 TSX at 2400 will kill most anything.

Go with something like a 350 Hor or Speer at 2300 to 2400. That'l kill anything in N.A.

Work up from there to about 2600 to 2700, quite pleasant actually. But replace those bullets after practice with the real deal -- the 350 TSX for hunting anything nasty.

Do the same with 400/405s. Start at 2000, then up it to 2400 fps since you are used to that from your .416 Rem. Again, use quality bullets for real hunting at those speeds.

As mentioned, 450s will work on anything on this planet when placed right and made right for the task.

I found 500s in my CZ550 at 2200 to near 2300 to be quite comfortable in my 11.2 lb (all up - ready to hunt). It was more of a healthy push.

Then take the good advice of others who've been there.

And oh, I'm approaching 77 real fast, 5'-9" and 180 lbs. I don't think size, age or natural strength have much to do with it, given normal good health and adequate muscle tension.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I had my Sako .416 Rem. mag. converted to .458 Lott. Shoots 300 gr, 350 gr and 400 gr bullets to about the same speeds as before. A wider selection of bullets available in .45 caliber. My standard load is the 350 gr TSX at 2600 fps.

Interesting? Why convert a .416 to .458 and then shoot 350 grain bullets with less sectional density?

Because you get 10% more TKO.

And just because I wanted a .458 Lott to round out my battery. I have a .416 Ruger and didn't need 2 .416's.

The difference in recoil between a Lott and A .416 Rigby is insignificant. I suspect there is a flaw in your shooting form or in the gun itself. Buy a plane ticket and bring the gun to Vegas and I'm sure in a afternoon the problem will be resolved.-Rob

I agree with Rob-- the difference between a lott and a full house 416 rem mag are not much difference--now a 505 with a 600 grain at 2300fps bullet to a 416 is a difference.

Ed

To answer some of the questions;
I cut 1/2" of cast off into the stock when I made it, and set the length of pull at 13.5". The comb is set to 3/4" at the front, and 1" at the heel to fit my open sights. I copied my 416 stock since it felt and worked well.

The length of pull is 1/2" shorter than I usually shoot, but I wanted to guarantee fast shouldering and no chance of catching my shirt/jacket. That would suck in a bad situation.

I'll learn to shoot it. Giving up isn't in the cards. I never said it wasn't fun, just surprising.

I appreciate the commentary and suggestions. There is a 405gr cast bullet mold on the way, and intend to throw those a bit to get the feel of the rifle.

Rob: My form could easily be an issue. These are the first heavy rifles that I have owned and shot, so I am learning. I also built them, so my stock design could be flawed as well. You can only research so much before giving it a try.

Thanks guys.

Jeremy

In my experience reduced loads won't solve your problems only mask them. You are best served by good instruction and trigger time.nothing else is more valuable.-Rob

I think its just a matter of shooting it more often. The first time I shot my 450NE I thought that it was a whopper. Not so much anymore. Today I shot 45 rounds off the bench with velocities ranging from 1777 to over 2500. Just hang in there and do some more shooting.

It is going out again Sunday afternoon to see if I can get the sights on at 25. I loaded 10 rounds and figured that I would shoot 5 shoot something else then finish.

Nothing left to do but get after it.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Jeremy

quote:

The length of pull is 1/2" shorter than I usually shoot,

Slip a recoil pad over the butt and try again. That made a HUGE difference in my .458 Win Mag.

LWD

Absolutlely. I have a limbsaver slip on recoil pad on my 500 Jeffery and it makes a big difference. If your rifle is muzzle heavy, having a mercury recoil reducer installed in the butt of the rifle helps some too. Nothing wrong with loading your 500g bullets down to 2150 fps either, the buffalo or elephant won't really know the difference.

You definitely are not alone. When I shot my Lott for the first time, I thought I'd lost my mind. But most of the advice given is sound and from experience from these guys. I kept at it and after 4 to 500 rounds through it, it no longer bothers me. You will still know it's there but it will be something you get used to. I still don't like it off the bench but offhand or off of shooting sticks, it's a piece of cake. I see a bunch of these posters moving up from calibers that can maul the average shooter to even bigger and better? calibers and they don't seem to be showing signs of dain bramage yet..............