http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....Magnum_Nitro_Express


Was the 577/500 Magnum Nitro Express a .500" bullet? Was there a paper patch to bring it to .510"?

The 500 #2 or 577/500 BP is listed here as a .507
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.500_No._2_Express

Seems both of these could make a nice smokeless rimless round using 505 Gibbs brass.

PS... Anyone try this shooting position?

no, .510

Boomies..
577 lead to the 577/500 .. and if you turn the rim off, and a couple other things, it IS THE GIBBS... not kinda -- it is

No it isn't Jeff!!

Boomie, I will give you a dollar to shoot my 500A2 in that position!

Boomie, the wiki is incorrect -- there wasn't a .500 nitro bullet diameter, the bore was .500 or perhaps even less, depending on the maker.

The description is also false, and confuses the 500 BP with the 577/500 and confuses that the 577/500 is actually a turned down case, including rim and base diameter than the 577 case.

One can NOT, with reasonable reloading press, put a 577 case in a 577/500 shell holder, and if they did use a 577 shellholder, the base diameter is PROBABLY too large for most hand powered reloading presses to squeeze down.. off the top of my head, it's about .015 smaller at the base, but I can go look up my approve case drawings and the CIP drawings I used to start for the 550 flanged.

In short, the article is inaccurate, though tehre MIGHT have been a .507 rifle out there, that was an accident of manf, and not planned.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
No it isn't Jeff!!

One can turn off the rim, and form perfect 505 gibbs cases from 577/500 cases.. not 577 cases, scott, 577/500 cases. Jamison, Hornber, and Bertram ALL make the 577/585/577/500/505/cheytac cases FROM THE SAME BASIC BRASS -

How do I know? I asked and had a special order run planned, until this little WAR broke out, and most production shifted.

Scott,
1: EXACTLY how many 577/500 based guns do you own, or have ever own, or have paid for a reamer to be built?
2: EXACTLY how many 577/500 based wildcts have you designed, has AATF approval for (this is the critical bit), owned, or paid for a reamer to be built?
3: Exactly how many 505 gibbs based wildcats have you had approved by the atf, owned, or paid for a reamer to be built?

Sir, you do not know from which you speak, and you have no knowledge of the matter.

Don't be a contraDICtarian for the BS sake of it.

Jeff,

I once owned a 577/500. It is simply the 577 NE case necked down to 500 (you do realize that the 577NE case was orignally BP don't you??). That case is roughly 0.010" bigger in diameter (0.650") than the 505 Gibbs (case diameter ~0.64").

I could care less how many fantasy cartridges you have made up or dreamed up or whatever. You obviously haven't done what you just posted as it CANNOT be done!!!!!!!!!!! Let me quote it now for accuracy.

quote:

One can turn off the rim, and form perfect 505 gibbs cases from 577/500 cases.. not 577 cases, scott, 577/500 cases. Jamison, Hornber, and Bertram ALL make the 577/585/577/500/505/cheytac cases FROM THE SAME BASIC BRASS -

How do I know? I asked and had a special order run planned, until this little WAR broke out, and most production shifted.

Scott,
1: EXACTLY how many 577/500 based guns do you own, or have ever own, or have paid for a reamer to be built?
2: EXACTLY how many 577/500 based wildcts have you designed, has AATF approval for (this is the critical bit), owned, or paid for a reamer to be built?
3: Exactly how many 505 gibbs based wildcats have you had approved by the atf, owned, or paid for a reamer to be built?

Sir, you do not know from which you speak, and you have no knowledge of the matter.

As I KNOW you have owned NO double rifles I wonder why you seem to believe yourself to be an EXPERT ON A CARTRIDGE USED ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY IN DOUBLE RIFLES! Please do us a favor and GROW-UP.

scott, your cab has arrived

Here is the Wiki info on the 500 express #2

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bullet diameter .507 in (12.9 mm)
Neck diameter .538 in (13.7 mm)
Shoulder diameter .560 in (14.2 mm)
Base diameter .641 in (16.3 mm)
Rim diameter .726 in (18.4 mm)
Case length 2.81 in (71 mm)
Overall length 3.40 in (86 mm)
Primer type .251 (6.38 mm) Berdan (Kynoch #31A)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The thought of a Gibbs based smokeless rimless 500 #2 with a .510" bullet is interesting.

From what I know the Gibbs is supposed to be .640" spec casehead but the actual brass is .635"

These measurements I am not sure if they are actual or spec.
2.82" long
.641" casehead

ScottS- I'm curious! In 9 years of listening to your Bullshit this is the FIRST time you have ever mentioned ever owning a 577/500 double rifle. You sure your not thinking of your Beowulf with a buldged case? Given that your a pathological lier I'm calling BULLSHIT! Post a pic of YOU and Your 577/500 and prove me wrong!Date stamped of course and no auction site pics allowed. We are on to your fradulent tactics as you know.
Boomstick- FWIW I've used the Creedmore shooting position with a .308 Unlimited Pistol for 200 and 500 mtr. silhouette shooting. Very very stable platform but uncomfortable for me. Seen some amazing shooting done that way though.-Rob

Yep boomie, the 577/500 has to be turned down, a HAIR to make a gibbs case.. less than the 577 has to be turned down to make the 577/500 -- but the gibbs has a straight section of case, wnat, .62 long? which puts the taper back to exactly as if they cut a straight line back and made the extractor cut for the rimless config...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Yep boomie, the 577/500 has to be turned down, a HAIR to make a gibbs case.. less than the 577 has to be turned down to make the 577/500 -- but the gibbs has a straight section of case, wnat, .62 long? which puts the taper back to exactly as if they cut a straight line back and made the extractor cut for the rimless config...

Please bear with me... So the 500 #2 reamer, dies and Gibbs brass can or cannot be used to make a smokeless rimless 500 #2? I guess turned down rims to .635" and added extractor grooves on the 500 #2 would work but preasures would need to be kept low and so not much gain but 570 grain woodleighs at 500 NE velocities have killed well so far

quote:

Boomstick- FWIW I've used the Creedmore shooting position with a .308 Unlimited Pistol for 200 and 500 mtr. silhouette shooting. Very very stable platform but uncomfortable for me. Seen some amazing shooting done that way though.-Rob

I would like to try this shooting position some time.

If you try it with a pistol make sure you have a leather BLAST shield on your leg! Blew the cuffs off my jeans the first time I tried it! In the Kalifornia state Silhoette Champioships 5 years ago my friend shot a perfect score on 1/2 size chickens at 200 yrds in the shoot-offs using the creedmore position in Unlimited class with a single shot Remington 600 pistol I built him in .308 win.-Rob

LOL... I would want a loooong barrel to clear my legs.

Word is Ed Weatherby drops Buffalo at 500 yards from that position with a single shot of his ...???

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Jeff,

I once owned a 577/500. It is simply the 577 NE case necked down to 500

other than the rim is turned down and the case body reduced, in other words, the 577 3" case would need to be BEATEN into a 577/500 chamber, and would have a "washer" of brass left over as you POUNDING it in with a sledgehammer... WRONG, again

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
(you do realize that the 577NE case was orignally BP don't you??).

of course, the 577 case started as a BP case, and the 577/500 is derived from that case, with some additional work

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS: That case is roughly 0.010" bigger in diameter (0.650")

the 577 ne base diameter is larger than the 577/500, and a gibb case, can EASILY be "cut" out of the case. That's how the cases WERE MADE the first time

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS: than the 505 Gibbs (case diameter ~0.64").


As I KNOW you have owned NO double rifles

opps - KNOWING what guns i have owned -- you've already "lost" this one before, scotty - I hope the hangover or drug/alcohol interactions aren't too bad today

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS: I wonder why you seem to believe yourself to be an EXPERT ON A CARTRIDGE

because I spent MONTHS researching it, and nearly feel into the EXPENSIVE mistake of assuming the 577 and 577/500 case are the same. That only cost me 5 weeks delay in a change order, not the huge cash it could of. Jamison, et al, make the 577 NE, 577/500, and giibs from the same basic case. I, tyro, spent time money and effot RESEARCHING and building these. I then used this as a basis to build a new case off it, 577/500 and to have it LEGALLY decreed to be a sporting round, and spent serious money to get there from there. My AVATAR is me touching off the first 550 flanged full house, though BP, shot, EVER. Interesting thing, sonny, PHOTOS.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:USED ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY IN DOUBLE RIFLES!

except it was largely built into single shot rifles, such as the frasier and stooper, in fact, I have seen LESS doubles in the caliber than in singles. I've built one each of the 550 flanged into a single and a double, which makes it even for me

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS: Please do us a favor and GROW-UP.

grow up? what does that mean? Does that mean drink a bunch of adult beverages, insult people publicly, LIE like a politican, and then act like a drunk?

I'll pass, thanks

and now for something FUNNY
this guy necked up the cheytac to .510!!
ignoring that the cheytac (if in jamison cases) is a gibbs case, and guys have been doing the 510/505 gibbs for about 1/2 a century

but THIS GUY copyrighted the name.. shesh... oh oh oh, I get it.. i'll take the wildcat 25x57 and COPYRIGHT it to 257 roberts.. no wait, that's been DONE

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/a...pgrZXxMXAZ&catid=669

quote:

once owned a 577/500. It is simply the 577 NE case necked down to 500 (you do realize that the 577NE case was orignally BP don't you??).

More fantasy. Base diameter of the various .577/.500s (there were several) ran from .016" to .024" smaller than the .577 NE case, and cannot be formed by simply necking the .577 down.
----------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Does anyone have 500 #2 dies to run a piece of Gibbs brass in?

Boom Stick: to return to the original theme, I used the Creedmore only once and out of necessity. It was most useful, because with a 300 W.M. I killed a most unfortunate fallow deer in a mountain, at a too obscene distance to quote here. The unlucky beast was scheduled to die that day, no doubt.