I just got back from my local Gander Mt. In the disply they had a couple of boxes of .458 Lott DG solid ammo. I don't remember the brand,(I think Federal) but I remember the price! $279.00 per 20.

There is less sales volume but it is made up in the markup.

Brass is brass and powder is powder. It costs slightly more to produce a 458 Lott round than it does to produce a 30-06 round.

Reloading is a must with some calibers to get price per shot

below HEART ATTACK numbers. DG cals. seem to absolulely fall

into this catagory. Reloading is fun anyway, from my experience

at other's homes. At MY home I've not yet crossed the line into

actually producing a complete round yet, but I am sure during
2010 that will happen.

Why is hornady 416 Rigby so cheap compared to other brands?

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Why is hornady 416 Rigby so cheap compared to other brands?

My guess is that Hornady is:

1) Selling at a lower margin and trying to make up the difference in volume.

2) Trying to corner the market by pushing out the high priced manufactures(Fed, etc.)

DG ammo and double rifles....2 peas in the same pod. Both are expensive because some people are willing to shell out the green for it.

big bore ammo is high because of recoil ... no, seriously .. few shooters, and few shooters that shoot ALOT.. so few inventory turns ... if it turned (make to ship to sell to shoot, and make again)

a buck for the bullet, 2 bucks for brass, .25 for powder and primer .. 3.25 a shot... then profit and insurance

hornady is charging a fair rate, and fair profit, in my opnion ..

though i've talked several people into learning to reload vs cost of shooting

I disagree, somewhat. Just like some wildcats, or more less popular cartridges, they can (and I'm sure do) run the loads less often. But ammo doesn't have a use by date like beer, milk and women. So though they may only sell so much, in relation to something more popular, they can put it out in the supply chain and just make another run in x number of years when it is run out.

I think the biggest reason it cost so much, (really, look at how much the components cost you, math out your load cost for your big bore versus your medium, then look at the markup) is that they know guys will spend it. they know somebody buying a 2000-50000 rifle, and spending 10-100k a year hunting can afford to buy an overpriced box of ammunition. Further, for some reason history and marketing has shown us that sometimes items overpriced sell well to a certain segment of the population. I know of a businesswoman that owns a couple of hair salons. the salon in the cute, college student dominated area charges about 50 bucks for a womans cut, the salon in the trendiest part of town with the best shopping centers and entertainment venues, they charge 200 bucks. same product.

it just isn't as cool to tell your friends about going on your hunt with your fancy rifle that cost 85 dollars for a box of 20 as it is to say it cost 120-220 a box.

With that said, I'm one that would go the nostalgic overpriced no better ballistic cartridge over the better cheaper newer cartridge just for cool factor.

Red

Pricing it a Gander Mountain is part of the problem. In my area they are consistantly 30% higher in price than all other competitors.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
Pricing it a Gander Mountain is part of the problem. In my area they are consistantly 30% higher in price than all other competitors.

Agreed. Gander in Lake Mary, FL, (near Orlando) quoted me $200.00 for a box of Federal TTBC 500 gr. .458 Win.

jeffeoso is absolutely right.

I have about 280 rounds of various .458 Win handloads on hand and my total cost is about $640.00. That's some A Frame loads in two weights, Remington 405 plinkers and Hornady DGS's, Accurate 2230 and IMR 4096, and Win primrs, using Hornady and Winchester brass. I laughed in the guy's face when he told me that. You can easily beat the price through some of the online providers, including shipping, and Federal is normally highly over priced, IMHO, anyway.

I reload all my rounds.DG and all others I own alot of guns if I had to by all of them rounds I would be broke. But by reloading I can load them the way I want.

quote:

What makes DG ammo so exspensive?

Not so much on a forum named AccurateReloading, but some folks still regard reloads as a ticking timebomb and would no more consider using them than dress in a sarong. Those folks will pick up the factory ammo box, gulp hard a time or two, then drop it in their shopping cart anyway, consoling themselves with the idiom, If you want to play you've got to pay.

Obviously Gander Mountain's marketing department knows this or all those ammo boxes would have an inch of dust on them.

And though I have never worked retail, I'm sure it's possible that the store can send unsold product back to the distributor for credit.

They have always overcharged shooters, check the price of crushed walnut hulls at the pet shop and the gun shop. The difference is amazing. Low volume is the main culprit. Although some corporations such as ATK do everything possible to keep prices as high as possible.

This also applies to rifles. When the Winchester was in production, the 375 version was about 300 bucks more than the 338 version. Can't see a lot of difference since they used the same stock, action, basic barrel diameter and length, etc. Even if you added another recoil lug, on the 458 for example, and a couple of cross bolts, in a mass produced rifle that didn't add up the the additional mark up.

Retail pricing is baised on the expected time of turn over in a particular sku (space keeping unit) in time value of money,shipping,insurance, utlities,shop ware and mark downs (yes a new box is paying for the shop worn and the discounted box) etc. and then the mark up is computed.

As to the mfg. The cost of R&D(huge cost) is added to the newest line and the balance pro rated over time in the cost collum in a projection of anticipated market. And then we have to add in the cost of setting up a line tooling and remember that their tooling is not porprietary but must be made. Do not forget training for each ctg. manafactued. Wages and benifits are assigned to that perhaps narrow market. Then there is the ad and marketing cost. Each product must carry and support its own weight. Only then do they know the cost to produce rather than... projections.

The addition of a lug or cross bolts creates cost to announce the features and benifit in catalogue space. The addition of a 3rd bolt may have to include the cost of additional metal loss due to billet metal configuration changes.

I am happy we have modern design and manafacturing as it as it saves us a lot money. Just small changes in actions require those large tooling costs and trips to the lab that prove action changes, even in beefed up items,that product will not fail.

Every new line or model change are burdened with all these costs and regulatory and documentation for possible litigation. And there is the cost of spare parts inventory and the cost to carry in time value of money. No wonder why spare parts are so expensive. I suppose most also have some cost to defend our rights to own and use the firearm. And cap all this with 10% for Ross Pittamn Act.

Me .I am just greatful there are people out there willing to make the stuff and components. Just a few years ago we can remember a lot of our African calibers and others were all but impossible to obtain.

The pricing on DG ammo is just crazy. Using premium bullets (Nosler Partitions/swift A-frames)for my 270 it costs roughly $1 a round assuming 10 reloads per case. Buying the same thing from Remington or Federal runs $35 a box of 20 or $1.75 a round. Reloading for my 500 Jeffery costs me about $2.25 per round. Buying factory costs $20 per round. Unless you are truly wealthy reloading is a must if you plan to practice with your rifle at all.

My two cents,

Chuck

Another factor we have seen is the huge cost of petro cost associated with powder. Another factor is China who almost runs the world metal markets. Couple of years ago they ran up the price of both furious and non metals then they stopped buying. Then reversed.I think a lot of metal users got metal at very high prices that is now or has been in production. We are simply buying product that has a cost basis of a peak. Costs are back up.

Most likely can expect no abaitment to our advantage in metals and petro. It is my observation and opinion that China will eventually control much of sub Saharan Africa.
That will include , petro, metals..stragic and trace. And there is urainum. Precious and diamonds to be included. One has but to look at Zimbabwe and read African news.

If you have visited at shows with manafactures they are open on the subject of obtaining good stock to their specs.
Just this week Steve Hornady on, I think, TAA spoke to this issue.

Get your components now.

Gee Elton,
after your explaination, seems we are lucky to have anything to shoot at all!
No wonder most of us handload.

i am gonna agree with Elton.
especially about the china buying africa.
they are also gonna buy a bunch of the u.s. and canada.
oil fields,real estate,mines.
either directly or indirectly.
go ahead and thank your leaders.
and stock up now.
sorry about the thread drift....

I think it's just mark up. If yo ucan afford a 470 or 404jeff, then yo ucan afford the factory ammo I guess. This is where handloading is a must IMO. Even at that, it cost me more than $1/shot for 404jeffery rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Elton Rambin:
Another factor we have seen is the huge cost of petro cost associated with powder. Another factor is China who almost runs the world metal markets. Couple of years ago they ran up the price of both furious and non metals then they stopped buying. Then reversed.I think a lot of metal users got metal at very high prices that is now or has been in production. We are simply buying product that has a cost basis of a peak. Costs are back up.

Most likely can expect no abaitment to our advantage in metals and petro. It is my observation and opinion that China will eventually control much of sub Saharan Africa.
That will include , petro, metals..stragic and trace. And there is urainum. Precious and diamonds to be included. One has but to look at Zimbabwe and read African news.

If you have visited at shows with manafactures they are open on the subject of obtaining good stock to their specs.
Just this week Steve Hornady on, I think, TAA spoke to this issue.

Get your components now.

sorryman, no .. has nothing to do with it .. federal 416 rigby was $165 bargin basement 8 years ago .. today, its $212 .. conspiracy and lack of materials has ZIP to do with it ...

even if cost of components DOUBLED in the last 8 years, making a 416 cost about 6.50 a shot, federal is charging a small delta ..

let's face it, primers cost federal EXACTLY the same to make, and there's no high cost of petro in powder, sir .. there's a high energy cost, but that's less than double, and we the consumer are seeing a 30% increase in cost ...

in fact, we are seeing 30% across the board in the last 18 months, again which has NOTHING to do with the high cost of big bore, dg ammo .. that is entirely fear/politics

Whatever the reason, big bore factory ammo is pricey! If you want to enjoy shooting a big bore, and get enough practice to be proficient, while at the same time avoiding bankrupcy, then you need to reload. My big bore is a 505Gibbs, and Norma 505 Gibbs ammo is $ 27 per shot. I can reload that for under $ 3.50 per shot, and even under $ 2.50 per shot assuming the cost of the case was covered in the original purchase of factory ammo. I usually fire 30 to 40 rounds once a month (at the local Big Game Rifle shoot). That would be around $800 to $1000 per month for factory ammo, but is $75 to $100 for my reloads, and that is not much more expensive than my 338 Win Mag. When the factory cases wear out Bertram Brass is available here for $5 per case (sold in boxes of 20 for $ 99.00 last time I bought some), and that works out at less than $1 per case considering the number of reloads I have got so far. So the economies of reloading are clear, but it also allows you to customise your loads rather than just accepting what the factories think is right. Reloading is not going to save you money of you only fire a box a box of ammo a year, but with a big bore if you plan to shoot enough to get proficient, then you will very quickly pay back the cost of your reloading gear.

Commodity prices are just a small component. R&D ,tooling etc. costs are all assigned to a ctg. with a narrow market and little economy of scale. Get a ammo mfg. lic. then call your insurance agent. Look at Superior and others it still is not cheap and Larry and others are very efficient in marketing and cost control.

Point on metals.. they ain't gonna get cheap.

I buy components.

ER

A lot of it is the caliber and what the market will bear. Bausch and Lomb just raised the price of a generic ophthalmic drug from under $2.00 to over $10.00 per tube because they could. We'll see if Alcon follows.
I bought a Remington 416 because the Rigby was over $200 a box. The next thing I knew so was the Remington

The cost of DG ammo can be a great reason for wildcats. Rum brass is cheap and good. The 400 Whelen and variants will duplicate factory 450/400 performance ect.