Since George S closed the other thread as I was typing, more or less this...
Lets talk about the 450 Black powder express.
Read what Taylor has to say about it in African Rifles &Cartridges. Take note of the bullet weights and velocity. Remember Taylor used about everything that went bang on real animals, not test media.

quote:

Originally posted by TSJ:
Since George S closed the other thread as I was typing, more or less this...
Lets talk about the 450 Black powder express.
Read what Taylor has to say about it in African Rifles &Cartridges. Take note of the bullet weights and velocity. Remember Taylor used about everything that went bang on real animals, not test media.

Can you paraphrase for those who do not have the book...

Ross said the 500 express was the 30-06 of its day .. would that make the 450 a 300 savage?

I have the simple answer. Load your .458Lott to 1500 FPS and use a flat point hard cast lead bullet.

It is sure to kill better that way.

365 grn lead solid ( soft and hard lead) at 1700 fps. Taylor had a singleshot and a double hammerless by holland. " I killed elephant,rhino and buffalo with the hardened bullet and lion with the soft lead with both rifles" . " I was very fond of this little rifle ( holland) and only sold it because the stock was to straight in the grip for me".
I'm sure Taylor was a bit ashamed of not getting stomped&gored using such an underpowered rifle. it's a good thing he isnt around to take abuse from the A R crowd for not knowing better.

Can you sight which of Taylor's books and which pages. I suspect he was talking about the 450 NE 3 1/4", 480grs at 2150fps nominal, about 2100fps in the field. He liked Holland & Holand's because they are typically signifaicantly lighter than other makes of NE rifle, especially so the 450 NE 3 1/4" because of its small head size relative to the other 450's which were based on the 500 case.

JPK

JPK it's in African Rifles and Cartridges
page 69 in my copy, under Big Bores.
No, it's the 450 black powder express I'm talking about, but he loves the 450 nitro version too.
This is all fun to watch people get worked up over their own theorys, butTaylor wouldnt take a half-ass shot using a 450 BP express. so it, along with Alvenslebens 1,000 buff with a 7x57 ect ect only proves it's the nut behind the butt that really counts.

TSJ,

You are sure right on about that. And it is why you should get your nut behind a butt make a few really count.

It is great experience and there is only one way to truly get the feel for it. That is out in the field with the rifle of your choice hunting dangerous game on foot at close range. It will change your life forever.

If you've already done it then you know what I'm talking about.

Taylor preferred the .470 NE for his elephant work. He acknowledged the .450BPE as a fine killer, but preferred a more optimal cartridge.

George