i have read somewhere (dont know where...i have read so much) that a certain energy level transfered to the animal will shut down the animals cental nervous system temporarily stunning the animal ( i am sure the smaller the game the lower the level ) do you know anything about this? i know some animals will drop in its shadow when hit by a superduper mag and was wondering if there was any truth to this line of thinking. thanks

I accidentally dropped a dairy cow in tracks with a carrot. You tell me how much energy tranfer that was and we'll have a meaningful number.

BTW don't tap a cow between the peepers with a carrot while muttering the magic words "Stupid Cow". I was scared to death I'd killed the thing.

It has been said that a (somewhat high but over) brain shot to elephants will knock them down and allow you to get away from their charge. (statement from Capstick)

The ele will come-to later and be alright!!!

The use of the full power ele rifle being used as he didn't carry carrots with him often.

Any animal will drop in its tracks when hit in the brain or spine. It is also common to drop animals with shots that strike key bones, such as shoulders, or hips.

I assume you are not talking about direct hits to the central nervous system or such bone breaking shots.

Soft tissue hits - even to the lungs or heart - generally don't result in immediate, drop to the shot kills, no matter how fast the bullet is traveling.

Of course, relatively small animals, such as prairie dogs and other varmints, can be torn apart, if not vaporized, by high velocity bullet impacts. That is because they are so small as to be inelastic. Even in those cases, though, I don't think that what is seen is shock, so much as it is total destruction.

I don't mean to suggest that larger animals cannot be dropped on the spot. It does happen, but it is the exception, and not the rule.

As an example, I once blew the heart right out of the chest of a steenbok that I shot at 20 yards with a .25-06. The shot knocked him off his feet and killed him on the spot. The 115 grain NP poked a caliber sized entry wound, but left the animal with a silver dollar sized exit wound. Next to the steenbok, on the ground laying in a pool of blood, was his shredded heart. So, it can be done.

But as the animals get even larger, the ability to drop them with one soft tissue hit decreases rapidly, notwithstanding Roy Weatherby's early propaganda to the contrary. Usually, an animal shot through the heart or lungs will run off a bit and then collapse and die. That is as true of whitetail deer as it is of cape buffalo.

Some animals do drop instantly when shot through the heart, though. It does happen, even to cape buffalo.

I have heard the theory advanced that for a large animal to succumb instantly to a heart shot, and collapse on the spot, the pumping chambers of its heart have to be full of blood when the bullet strikes. Supposedly, the spike in blood pressure shuts them right down.

Maybe; I don't know. But that has nothing to do with ultra high velocity, and in any case one cannot know where a buff's heart will be in its pumping cycle when a shot is fired.

I would think that one would need to use a howitzer in order to get a cape buffalo to reliably drop to a heart shot as my steenbok did. And even a howitzer might not be 100% effective.

I have seen prarie dogs that have nothing left from the shoulders down but they still squirm a bit. That is without a brain hit. A 22-250 has a huge amount of energy compared to a prarie dog's size, so I am not sure how much energy it would take to stun a deer without a CNS hit.

I've shoot more than a few Whitetail through the lungs with .308 cal rifles all of them have run a short distance before dying. I've shoot a few with 22-250 in the lungs and all were Bang flops. I have no idea why this happened I've read the theories on Hydrostatic shock and full hearts, and I see no scientific evidence to back them up.
DR B

hydrostatic shock was part of the theory...aparently with enough h.s. it flicks the switch on the animal

boom,
watch vids of them shooting ballastic gel ... it might make you think, for about 90 seconds, that a 22-250 is the ultimate killer...

Rob coined a new term when he hit a deer with his 585 nyati ...
HYDROLIC shock...

when the bullet is big enough, and moving fast enough, that the pressure wave inside the animal ruptures its hide...

with little meat damage...


the shockwave acts, well, like the critter fell from a great height!!

jeffe

I think the general concensus is that cats are particularly succeptible to that phenomeneon and I tend to agree. jorge

i guess the more sensative the animal is in terms of its senses e.g. cats it could have merrit. i say we shoot some cats at 100 diff velocities to check the theory especialy the one that pissed in my garage

Well this should do up deer and big cats.ed

I've shot three deer ( one with the Bubbas as witnesses) with a 585 Nyati and the .600 OK. Hydrolic shock occured each time and the critter looked and acted like you had just shoved a beer can right through them. Hammered is a word that comes to mind. Watch the videos of gallon water bottles being blasted by these fast big slugs! I doubt this would occur with 500lb plus critters. They would probably just run off and die like everything else. BIG HOLE, LOTS OF BLOOD AND VERY VISABLE EFFECT THOUGH! You'd need a 37mm cannon to get the equivqlent effect on big game.-AOB

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Marlin:
I accidentally dropped a dairy cow in tracks with a carrot. You tell me how much energy tranfer that was and we'll have a meaningful number.

BTW don't tap a cow between the peepers with a carrot while muttering the magic words "Stupid Cow". I was scared to death I'd killed the thing.

btw that was a damn funny post...

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Well this should do up deer and big cats.ed

ed, when are yoooz going to africa to put that elephant suppository shooter to good use! damn i would love to hear the hunting report on that! do a texas heart shot on an elephant!

quote:

I've shot three deer ( one with the Bubbas as witnesses) with a 585 Nyati and the .600 OK.

Good God Rob! Isn't that a lot like swatting an ant with a baseball bat?!

(Before anyone interprets that wrong, I understand the big bore thing - I just couldn't resist...)

quote:

Originally posted by Tex21:
Good God Rob! Isn't that a lot like swatting an ant with a baseball bat?!

Nah... the 145# sow with the 585 now THAT was swatting a hornet with a deadfall hammer

LOL

now, here's a recovered woodleigh 750 from the mentioned nyati.. both sides, in Rob's hand

Boom Stick
This is a copy of a post made a while back about the effectiveness of the 257 STW on Large game.I think it is antidotal evidenve that velocity kills.
DR B

"Why does it take so many shots with the big Bores? 458win took shree shots last year with a 458 Lott, to kill his Bison. check out this story and Link. Can anyone explain why the smaller rifle kills quicker???

The question of the .257 Hot Tamale’s effectiveness on large game like mule deer, Canadian whitetails and elk had been answered. My thoughts turned to the possibility of what it would do on game the size of a buffalo.

The next day, after looking over several of Gerald’s 2,000-pound bulls, we spotted a huge bull with a blond mane and dark-brown face and neck. This was the specimen I wanted. Waiting for a broadside shot, I placed the crosshairs behind the shoulder and touched off the shot. When the bullet hit the bull, he shook like he’d been struck by a bolt of lightning. The bullet entered and exited his lungs around 4,000 fps, creating enough hydrostatic shock to knock him to his knees. In a matter of seconds, the bull succumbed to the destruction of both lungs and fell over, stone dead.

Now, that’s some kind of performance. What a magnificent animal and trophy. Gerald and his sons determined the bull weighed more than 2,400 pounds.

Two exceptionally large game animals were taken with one shot each from the .257 Hot Tamale’s 100-grain bullet. That should be enough to answer skeptics and critics as to the .25 caliber’s ability on game larger than deer. "

http://www.gunhuntermag.com/Features/050124Hot.htm

There is something to hydrostatic shock, though it is tough to quantify. I do believe the right bullet has a lot to do with it, as I have always had "sudden death" with correctly placed Nosler Partitions.

I guess I am somewhat surprised by these stories of deer running after being shot. Every deer, impala, etc. that I have shot broadside in the lungs with NP dropped dead at the spot.

There is a lot of talk about heart shots and hydrostatic shock but drop dead critters seemed more susceptible to lung shots in my experience.

The world is full of theories.

quote:

The ele will come-to later and be alright!!!

And perhaps a bit cantankerous................

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

The ele will come-to later and be alright!!!

And perhaps a bit cantankerous................

I bet it has a wicked migraine to boot. So did the that stupid cow, she was mad at me for three days.

Getting back to the "Bang Flop" topic. I have never shot anything bigger than a whitetail and have never done so with a high power rifle. My .50 cal muzzle loader has never produced a bang-flop with the exception of direct head shots. Same with my .44 revolvers. Putting a round through the lungs, I fully expect to see the deer run 50 yards and pile up. In all honesty I've had faster kills with a bow and arrow.

I've seen the bang flop on vidoes and I heard hunters in NH talking about it every year, but I've never experienced it. If I want one achored where it stands, I head shoot it. And the only time I do that is if its in a herd and I don't want collatoral damage or when I'm hunting the edges of the big ravines in the Finger Lakes area of NY.

I usually get "Bang Flop" when hunting roe deer (a big one is about 60 pounds) with my 243 winnie with shoots behind the frontlegs in the lungs. This will not happen if the animal is aware of any danger, only when they dont have a clue about any danger ahead. Bullet is a pretty soft Nosler Ballistic tip, 95grain loadet to maximum, about 3150 fps. I have never seen this happen on any other animal shoot with the same load and the usual comment is that this is not true. I have shoot about 60 roe deer with the 243 /BT combo and about 57 fell down on the spot kicking for about 20-30 seconds and stayed down. Shoots were between 30-250 feet. The failed "flopbang" where the short distance shoots. I have allso shoot roe deer with 308 and 222 but a 50-100yard run after the shoot was allways expected and allways occured.

I have no explanation why...

/