I just started loading for a CZ550 in 458 Lott using AA2520 powder and 500gr Hornady bullets. I asked for experience with this powder on the reloading forum and got no responses so I thought I would try it here. I started at 81gr and went up 1gr at a time. Velocity peaked at 83gr (accurate data listed 86gr as max) with muzzle velocity at 2300fps. The gun is new out of the box with no bedding or other work done. With factory loads from Hornady, it shot 1.5" groups while I was breaking in the barrel---and my shoulder. Any experience with this powder as to temperature sensivity, etc.? Any other powders recommended?

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
I just started loading for a CZ550 in 458 Lott using AA2520 powder and 500gr Hornady bullets. I asked for experience with this powder on the reloading forum and got no responses so I thought I would try it here. I started at 81gr and went up 1gr at a time. Velocity peaked at 83gr (accurate data listed 86gr as max) with muzzle velocity at 2300fps. The gun is new out of the box with no bedding or other work done. With factory loads from Hornady, it shot 1.5" groups while I was breaking in the barrel---and my shoulder. Any experience with this powder as to temperature sensivity, etc.? Any other powders recommended?

Personally I think it's the best powder out there for the Lott.. It seems to have less sharp of a recoil pulse than the stack of other powders I tried.. My CZ550 Lott with 21" barrel & 82gr AA2520 500gr Hornady/Woodleigh does 2210fps.

The only thing that kept me from posting was a complete lack of personal experience with one. I am going to buy one (CZ) next year, I just figured I'd let you do all the dirty work and "borrow" all your data.

Thanks,

Rich

I use IMR4320 powder. It does what I would Expect out of my 458 CZ Lott.

Rich,
That dirty work I can do. I looked over several sources of loading data for the Lott and the Accurate powder listings seemed to offer the best velocity/pressure ranges. I have a CZ in 458WM and I am getting 2150-2180MV using h4895 but I cannot find any data with it for the LOTT. I loaded just two rounds for each load tested Sunday (AA2520) and the widest spread in velocity was 11fps. At 83gr of 2520 the two rounds clocked 2296 and 2300. I think the chalenge is going to be getting the solids to shoot to the same or approx POI of the soft nose.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
Rich,
That dirty work I can do. I looked over several sources of loading data for the Lott and the Accurate powder listings seemed to offer the best velocity/pressure ranges. I have a CZ in 458WM and I am getting 2150-2180MV using h4895 but I cannot find any data with it for the LOTT. I loaded just two rounds for each load tested Sunday (AA2520) and the widest spread in velocity was 11fps. At 83gr of 2520 the two rounds clocked 2296 and 2300. I think the chalenge is going to be getting the solids to shoot to the same or approx POI of the soft nose.

I was always under the impression Hornady was using special powders (not available to the general public) to get 2300 fps in the LOTT.

Is 83gr of AA2520 a safe load for this cartridge?

akalinin
Nope . the lott can easily get to 2300 with several quick powders .. only their light magnum use special powders

Didn't Boddington shoot 500s at 2400 when the Lott first came out?

akalinin,
According to the Accurate load data the max is 86gr of 2520 with the 500gr Hornady with a velocity just over 2300. The velocity in my CZ peaked at 83gr (2300) and at 84gr it started coming down. (84 gr averaged 2274) I generally us that velocity peak as my max load and work on accuracy from there down. At 81gr of 2520 it averaged 2224 and their starting load was 77gr. I think I will start testing for groups at 82gr then 82.5 and use 83 as max. This is with softnose so I will still have to work on the solids.

With my CZ Lott I get 2280 FPS with the S.P. and with the solid I get 2362 FPS. I don't think
the 458 Win can keep up with those FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
akalinin,
According to the Accurate load data the max is 86gr of 2520 with the 500gr Hornady with a velocity just over 2300. The velocity in my CZ peaked at 83gr (2300) and at 84gr it started coming down. (84 gr averaged 2274) I generally us that velocity peak as my max load and work on accuracy from there down. At 81gr of 2520 it averaged 2224 and their starting load was 77gr. I think I will start testing for groups at 82gr then 82.5 and use 83 as max. This is with softnose so I will still have to work on the solids.

I'll definitely have to try this in my #1. Were you using Hornady brass?

Yes, I could only find Hornady brass when I started. Actually, I bought a box of Hornady 458 Lott ammo to take to my PH in Africa and found I couldn't take it without a rifle in that caliber.

As a follow up to my initial post, I shot several loads over the chronograph today. The temperature today was in the 30's vs last Sunday in the low 50's and the velocity did not change more than a few fps. The 83gr load of AA2520 with a 500gr Hornady SP clocked 2307, 2301 and 2306 and went into about a 1.5" group. I loaded several loads with the 500gr Hornady solids as well and at 83.5gr of AA2520 the velocity was 2296,2297 and 2301. That 3 shot group went into 1". The only problem I need to work out now is that the solids shoot about 3-4 inches below the softnose.

I once shot about 50 full power H4895 loaded lott rounds in about 15 minutes.The barrel got so hot that I could barely touch it.I once fired about a hundred Varget loaded 308 rds in about the same time span and the heavy palma got so hot that the inside of my scope caught on fire and I could see the flames while looking through it .I then threw it on the snow to extingush.These and other experiences made me a fan of the Hogdon extreme powders.

"got so hot that the inside of my scope caught on fire"

Now that's funny!

I know it sounds funny but that's what it looked like.

My question is why fire a round every 9 seconds for 15 minutes in a Palma rifle?


As to the flames maybe your scope was sealed with propane instead of nitrogen.

And you are right it does sound funny.

This is the load I like in my CZ 550.

What velocity are you getting with that?



.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
My question is why fire a round every 9 seconds for 15 minutes in a Palma rifle?


As to the flames maybe your scope was sealed with propane instead of nitrogen.

And you are right it does sound funny.

Just hurrying before the range closes.I somtimes don't get the oppurtunity to shoot whenever I would like.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
What velocity are you getting with that?



.

he should be getting around 2200fps

I tried to chrono it once but the muzzle blast interfered with the readings. I'm sure it's fast enough. Some day I'll give it another try with the chron 15 to 20 feet down range and try not to hit it.

I am loading 74.5gr of h4895 in my CZ 458WM with 500gr Hornady DGX and DGS. The DGX are running 2150 and the DGS are running 2180. I have not tried h4895 in my 458 Lott yet. What is the max in the Lott with h4895 and 500gr Hornady bullets.

My practice is to stop pushing a load once widening groups, i.e., diminishing returns occur. I load for accuracy and not for velocity. I don't think I ever got to a "maximum" load in pressure terms but probably tried loads a couple of grains higher than in the load pictured.

Grumulkin,
I am looking for the load range for the Lott with h4895. The Hornady manual lists a lower max on the Lott data than the 458WM. My 458WM will shoot 1" groups with the loads referenced above. My Lott with AA2520 will shoot 1-1.25" groups with mv of 2300fps (that's just where it grouped best). I can only get Accurate Arms powder by ordering it online. I can buy h4895 in bulk from a lady up the street that sells powder and brass at gun shows. I called Hornady regarding the Lott data with h4895 and they said they were working on that.

In regards to 458 Lott data, I found that different manuals gave different load ranges. For instance, Barnes lists a maximum load for the 458 Lott with H4895 of 79.0 grains with their 500 gr. bullets.

Logically, with the 458 Win. Mag. having a smaller case capacity, you could use the upper third of that data for your starting load in a 458 Lott. When working up a load, if possible I look at load data from 2 or 3 or 4 sources and then decide a safe place to start. With a gun with a strong action like the CZ 550, once I have a place to start, it's no problem to determine where the maximum load is by analyzing pressure signs.

I started my load workup in the lower range of 458 Lott data and went up all the way to 76.5 grains of H4895. From being in the 1 inch or so range at 74.0 to 75 grains, group sizes went to about 2.5 inches at 76 grains and 3 inches at 76.5 grains.

As I said previously, it was apparent that increasing the powder charge further was not going to enhance accuracy so I settled on a 74 grain load. A different gun might do better with a little more or a little less powder.

I use IMR4320 I get with solids 2360 FPS with SP bullets Iget 2280 FPS.

Grumulkin-I found loading data today for h4895 from around 70gr all the way up to 84gr with 500gr bullets of various mfg. I think if I get back in time on Saturday, I will load a few test rounds. I think I will start just under my 458WM loads and check velocity going up to around 76 or 77gr and see if the softnose and solids shoot any closer together than the AA2520.
jro45--What load are you using with the IMR4320? I have seen several listing with that powder as well. I have several pounds of h4895 but I don't have any 4320 on hand right now.

I have been working an 8lb jug of DP74 for a while now on loads for my Lott. That is the surplus version of AA2520. Accurate used to have load information in pdf for the 2520 load on their site. take a look. It is not hard to get over 2300 fps with that powder, but when I did, it gave me a flinch that took quite a while to get over.

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
I have been working an 8lb jug of DP74 for a while now on loads for my Lott. That is the surplus version of AA2520. Accurate used to have load information in pdf for the 2520 load on their site. take a look. It is not hard to get over 2300 fps with that powder, but when I did, it gave me a flinch that took quite a while to get over.

What is flinch?, I also have a 458 Lott, but I can only recharge with Tubal 3000 and Tubal 5000, which are powders sold in my country. Do you have tasted?

Oscar.

I've never used AA2520 but My "standard" load in my Ruger RSM with 23 in. barrel is

500 gr. 458 Hornady 4504 bullet
Hornady brass
Federal 215 primer
83 gr. IMR4320

Gives me 2243 fps measured 10 feet from the muzzle.

Hope this is of some help.

Roi

quote:

the inside of my scope caught on fire and I could see the flames while looking through it .I then threw it on the snow to extingush

Anyone else ever have this issue?
How could you have flames in a sealed tube with no oxygen?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I once shot about 50 full power H4895 loaded lott rounds in about 15 minutes.The barrel got so hot that I could barely touch it.I once fired about a hundred Varget loaded 308 rds in about the same time span and the heavy palma got so hot that the inside of my scope caught on fire and I could see the flames while looking through it .I then threw it on the snow to extingush.These and other experiences made me a fan of the Hogdon extreme powders.

Shootaway,

No wonder you burnt the barrel out of your Lott!

74 grains of H-4895 is a very mild load with 500 grin bullets in the Lott. Here is some data from my testing with 500 grain Hornady solids. I suspect they will be under 2,000 fps.

76 grains IMR-4320 2,041 FPS (Hornady 500 grain soft)
80 grains IMR-4320 2,111 fps
82 grains IMR-4320 2,177 fps
81 grains IMR-4320 2,142 fps
82 grains IMR-4320 2,197 fps

79 grains H-4895 2,162 fps
81 grains H-4895 2,142 fps
82 grains H-4895 2,258 fps

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I once shot about 50 full power H4895 loaded lott rounds in about 15 minutes.The barrel got so hot that I could barely touch it.I once fired about a hundred Varget loaded 308 rds in about the same time span and the heavy palma got so hot that the inside of my scope caught on fire and I could see the flames while looking through it .I then threw it on the snow to extingush.These and other experiences made me a fan of the Hogdon extreme powders.

Shootaway,

No wonder you burnt the barrel out of your Lott!

74 grains of H-4895 is a very mild load with 500 grin bullets in the Lott. Here is some data from my testing with 500 grain Hornady solids. I suspect they will be under 2,000 fps.

76 grains IMR-4320 2,041 FPS (Hornady 500 grain soft)
80 grains IMR-4320 2,111 fps
82 grains IMR-4320 2,177 fps
81 grains IMR-4320 2,142 fps
82 grains IMR-4320 2,197 fps

79 grains H-4895 2,162 fps
81 grains H-4895 2,142 fps
82 grains H-4895 2,258 fps

465H&H

465H&H,I don't agree with your data.You should be getting more than 100 fps, over what you listed there,with a couple of those lott loads.The 79 grain H4895 load is a max load that should give you at least 100fps more than what you have there.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
got so hot that the inside of my scope caught on fire and I could see the flames while looking through it .I then threw it on the snow to extingush..

Nice -- scopes are filled with nitrogen or argon, george .. they can't burn internally

I take that back, CHEAP scopes aren't filled and sealed.. and one can be certain that even a zeiss, (burning internally.. LOL) would beome leaky if chunked into the snow when "that" hot.

Funny thing, on ole shoo-that-away ...
the m14 has no problem shooting 100 rounds, or the m60, and then cooling down ...

Oscar
A flinch is an INVOLUNTARY muscle movement, in expectation of being hit. For example, in school, if someone pretended to slap you, your reaction (short of slaping THEM) is a flinch

In terms of guns, its jerking the gun, muscles spasming in anticipation of recoil .. in off hand shooting, this explains shootaways groups .. which is why we call him flincie

Oscar,it seems that jeffe is an expert on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Oscar,it seems that jeffe is an expert on the subject.

Yes, i have helped many people overcome their flinch.. you, however, refuse to listen, and are probably beyond hope

I've realized, is when a person expects to hit the gun and accidentally shrinks, and this fact adversely affects the accuracy (obviously).

Thank you,

Oscar.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I once shot about 50 full power H4895 loaded lott rounds in about 15 minutes.The barrel got so hot that I could barely touch it.I once fired about a hundred Varget loaded 308 rds in about the same time span and the heavy palma got so hot that the inside of my scope caught on fire and I could see the flames while looking through it .I then threw it on the snow to extingush.These and other experiences made me a fan of the Hogdon extreme powders.

Shootaway,

No wonder you burnt the barrel out of your Lott!

74 grains of H-4895 is a very mild load with 500 grin bullets in the Lott. Here is some data from my testing with 500 grain Hornady solids. I suspect they will be under 2,000 fps.

76 grains IMR-4320 2,041 FPS (Hornady 500 grain soft)
80 grains IMR-4320 2,111 fps
82 grains IMR-4320 2,177 fps
81 grains IMR-4320 2,142 fps
82 grains IMR-4320 2,197 fps

79 grains H-4895 2,162 fps
81 grains H-4895 2,142 fps
82 grains H-4895 2,258 fps

465H&H

465H&H,I don't agree with your data.You should be getting more than 100 fps, over what you listed there,with a couple of those lott loads.The 79 grain H4895 load is a max load that should give you at least 100fps more than what you have there.

Shootaway,

Sorry you don't agree but I only report what I test. Your 79 grain max load is the one given in the Barnes manual and is for the overly long Barnes mono-metal bullets that that need to be deeply seated and therfore take up a lot of cartridge space.

465H&H