Is there a Bolt Action stopping rifle cartridge
from the early 1900s'?
Contemporaries of the .375H&H.

I assume there isn't or the Lott wouldn't be so popular.

That will feed reliably thru a bolt rifle and maybe even some around for it.

Allen

.416 rigby, .505 gibbs, .500 jeffery, are the ones that immediately pops up in my mind.

I guess I should have said .45 cal and up.

I'm not looking to build one (at least not in the near future).

The Jeffery would be an old British style round.

What is the history of the 505 Gibbs?

I am just looking to learn about what was/is available and the characteristicsand history of the various old Big Bore bolt rifle calibers.

Allen

http://www.africanconservation.org/dcforum/DCForumID5/286.html

the .500 jeffery and .505 gibbs were the only .45"+ bolt-action cartridges i could find in "cartridges of the world"

Hi Allen,
Have a read of the Mini Compendium of Big Bore Cartridges, by Daniel McCarthy, which can be found at:-
http://www.470mbogo.com/BigBoreCompendium/
It has a lot of useful and interesting information and data on a range of big bore calibres including 505 Gibbs. It was one of the resources I used to choose my big bore stopper caliber, which is 505 Gibbs. One of the other key factors is that factory ammo is now available from Norma, and while they are expensive they make excellent Brass so you should get many reloads, and you have "original factory packaging" which is a must for transport of ammo on some airlines. You can also get unprimed Brass from Bertram, Horneber and Jamieson, and bullets from Barnes, Woodleigh and a few others, so you have options. My second choice was the 500 Jeffrey, and you have more choice of bullets here, but with Barnes and Woodleigh both making 505 calibre bullets I didn't think I needed a bigger choice of bullets to use. However, as far as I could tell, it is not factory loaded and the rebated rim means you have to have a gun made by someone you really knows what they are doing to avoid feeding problems. I also felt the Gibbs had an advantage in that you can achieve good velocities with milder pressure that the Jeffrey, so in the heat of Africa or Outback Australia, I would be unlikely to have any stuck case problems.
Have fun deciding.

Hemmingway's characters used a 505 Gibbs... I always loved the idea of the cartridge, just not the recoil/expense/etc... Of course, that could change, I suppose -- I've decided that I'd rather have a few really good guns, than dozens of passable ones (barring my G29, which serves the role of being a functional gun which I dislike, so I don't mind making a mess of it, very well.)

well, it "doesn't exist" .. the schuler (not 500 jeffe) had far more made than jeffrey ever made (28 or 29 original 500jeffes made) .. and at the onset of wwI, the 505 was SOL for actions.

the 458 winmag was 1/2 a century later, with all those other choices.

basically, you had the 404, 10,75x68, and 416rigby for stopping BOLT guns..

Now, how did they survive? heavy caliber single shots, 9,3x62, and 375HH ..

the 303 and 8mauser sure did kill a bunch of game

I guess most of the time if they wanted a stopper they usually went for a Double rifle.

I wonder if it was because of a lack of suitable actions for the size the cartridges
needed to be at that time or if doubles were just the preferred gun for such purposes?

Allen

Buy yourself a copy of Taylor's African Rifles and Cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
well, it "doesn't exist" .. the schuler (not 500 jeffe) had far more made than jeffrey ever made (28 or 29 original 500jeffes made) .. and at the onset of wwI, the 505 was SOL for actions.

the 458 winmag was 1/2 a century later, with all those other choices.

basically, you had the 404, 10,75x68, and 416rigby for stopping BOLT guns..

Now, how did they survive? heavy caliber single shots, 9,3x62, and 375HH ..

the 303 and 8mauser sure did kill a bunch of game

...............And the 425 Westley Richards .....................Very Important , that one ...

Just a note. Unless TSA has changed it's rules you can not put ammunition on a plane that has a number bigger than .500. The .505 is over the limit and if you get a TSA Idiot they will take your ammo away from you.

I had the TSA refuse to let me fly with my .577 nitro ammo on my last trip. I managed to find some ancient Kynock ammo in South Africa and finished the trip successfully but not with out a lot of sweat and anxiety.

e

First I have heard of TSA having an over .50 limit. What about shotgun slugs, they are .729. The 12 GaFH is legal everywhere. Who needs a wimpy .577 anyway. -Rob

Maybe the 550 magnum/Gibbs could be a 28 gauge rimless magnum...


My .500 belted rum (500 MAX) is TSA idiot compliant

2-Bore for domestic consumption and 2-Gauge for Export. It's a shotgun cartridge - right!!!

Stopping cartridge is an overused, used up term IMO...A stopping cartridge is a bullet in the spine or brain, all else is faddle..I like the 404 and 416 myself!

quote:

Originally posted by els:
Just a note. Unless TSA has changed it's rules you can not put ammunition on a plane that has a number bigger than .500. The .505 is over the limit and if you get a TSA Idiot they will take your ammo away from you.

I had the TSA refuse to let me fly with my .577 nitro ammo on my last trip. I managed to find some ancient Kynock ammo in South Africa and finished the trip successfully but not with out a lot of sweat and anxiety.

e

I know this is off topic...But...

I'd like to get some definitive answers from the air lines...

I'm planning Zim in 09 and would be really pissed if I couldn't take my 600OK...

A few of the booking agents & PHs I've talked to said it shouldn't be a problem...

But I guess all it takes is one idiot airline worker and you're screwed...

Guys:

Go to the TSA site, www.tsa.gov Then go to Prohibited items then to the firearms section. I am lousy at cutting and pasting, sorry.

There is no mention of caliber restrictions in their regulations.

However, IIRC, there was some discussion in the past here on AR which may have indicted that BATF or Customs had some restrictiions on over 50 caliber. Again, IIRC, it was directed at non sporting or military weapons such as the 50 BMG. I believe that traditional sporting arms, bolt, DR, etc. were allowed. Try a search on this forum and perhaps African hunting and travel. As far as I know, no airline has this policy.

Many have gone with their prized DR and .505 and .500J to Africa recently with no problems. Maybe an experienced booking and/or travel agent can help us here.

Once again, it is wise to have a copy of TSA and airline regs with you when you travel.

Regards,

RCG

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Stopping cartridge is an overused, used up term IMO...A stopping cartridge is a bullet in the spine or brain, all else is faddle..I like the 404 and 416 myself!

.................................Ray ,,, I know you have killed alot more animals than I have ,, but I disagree ,., ., And I disagree from experience ............A pos 30 cal in the chest will not dump a bear , but a 458 will ....It,s just as plain as that .......Even the cussed 45/70 .. with the right load , if you wack a bear in the chest he,s gonna hit the ground ,., he will quite likely want to get back up where as with the 458 he will just be DEAD ...The 416,s work simularly ....Velocity , works .,.,diameter works .,.,yes its not a 100 % rule ...A guy could get run over by a concrete truck and walk away , but chances are he would be smashed flatter than a dime

All else is "FADDLE"... I Love that one Ray!! ....thats one i will remember for sure