Hi All: Here's a possible new one for you guys...
I now have a .416 Newton...made up by
having a .35 Newton necked up to .416.

Newton's original ...400 Newton was made
up using a .405 barrel (only 4 were made)
(.412 barrel)..and did well in Africa.
But due to the better selection of
bullets, I chose .416 (.004" larger).

Its identical for all practicality to
the .416 Taylor, but unbelted, and
should do just as well.

Aloha,

Tom

welcome...

sounds neet. where are you getting brass from?

the 375 ruger is a "375 newton" .. the newton was HH diameter, no belt.

jeffe

COTW says the rim diameter of the newton cartridges is .525" and the base/head diameter is .523" and the case length is 2.52" and COL is 3.35" for the 30 and 35 Newton.

What a relief!

The .375 Ruger with .532" rim and base diameter is still a unique cartridge.

Newton did not beat Ruger to it. Close, but no cigar.

Rip,
i'll buy that!
jeffe

I have an original, minty bore, 256 Newton. Had a 300 Newton, for which I made brass from the 6.5x68S and it's big brother 8x68S. 300WM minus the belt for velocity. A collector got it, but the stock on the 256 was too beat to attract him. As soon as my mentor gets the 510, another 375Imp, and another takedown barrel (38-55) built for a Savage 99TD I have in 22 Savage HiPower he is going to show me how to restock from a blank.

Good rifle action design, but pass on the bolt shape.

Rich

Hi: Newton Brass will be available from Jamison...
Graf has it listed already...but not out yet.
Mine is on backorder. The .416 Newton is simply the .35 Newton necked to .416. Very much like a .416 Taylor, except no belt. You can also make the brass by necking down .458 WinMag brass or necking up .338 WinMag brass. The belt on these
cartridges fit in the chamber...sounds odd, but works just fine. The belt flattens out some depending on the softness of the brass.
I shoot .22 Newton, .256 Newton, .280 Newton, .30 Newton and now will .416 Newton.
Newton came out with his cartridges as early as 1914, rifles in 1917...I don't understand the posting by RIP as Ruger wasn't even around then.
Aloha,
Tom

quote:

Originally posted by white bison:
Hi: Newton Brass will be available from Jamison...
Graf has it listed already...but not out yet.
Mine is on backorder. The .416 Newton is simply the .35 Newton necked to .416. Very much like a .416 Taylor, except no belt. You can also make the brass by necking down .458 WinMag brass or necking up .338 WinMag brass. The belt on these
cartridges fit in the chamber...sounds odd, but works just fine. The belt flattens out some depending on the softness of the brass.
I shoot .22 Newton, .256 Newton, .280 Newton, .30 Newton and now will .416 Newton.
Newton came out with his cartridges as early as 1914, rifles in 1917...I don't understand the posting by RIP as Ruger wasn't even around then.
Aloha,
Tom

What is not to understand? There is also some humor involved in my previous comment.

Of course Ruger wasn't around in 1914. Newton also did not make a .532" diameter head and rim sized case then either.

What you are doing is sizing down the .532" belted case in a .523" die and then fire forming it to iron it out in the Newton chamber. That sounds safe to me. Ahead of the belt, the belted case is actually smaller (.512") than the Newton and must be blown out by the fireforming.

Sounds like the Newton case body averages the diameters between the belt and body of an H&H case. You are splitting the difference when you resize and fireform, with no splitting of case heads hopefully. (humor again)

What do your cases measure at the base/head diameter (just ahead of the extractor groove), after fire forming? What do they look like regarding where the belt used to be? How many firings can you get from a case before a case head separation? It depends on how hot you load them, of course. Thanks.

Hi: The case measures .530" there. The belt looks flattened some, a friend who also shoots Newtons & uses Norma belted cases says the Norma brass is soft enough, the belt dissapears. I checked with a brass maker here & says its a good idea, as the .338 belt centers the case nicely for fireforming.
Bruce Jennings recommended doing this as a quick & easy way to make .30 Newtons.
However, if you hunt Africa...you must have correct headstamps to the rifle or possibly have customs problems ruining the whole expedition.
Anyway, the Newton cartridges are excellent in my humble opinion. I'm glad someone is making new brass for them. When I neck down the .30 Newton to 7mm to make one version of the ".280
Newton", I run into problems with the old, original brass as it doesn't hold up to the high pressures...if i use .338 brass sized first to .30 newton, fire-formed, then again sized to .280 Newton, I can run high pressures & high velocity..like 3440 fps with a 7mm 150 gr. bullet. My aim is 3300 with a 160 gr. bullet...
Best Regards,
Tom

as a postscript...some gunsmiths & experts of the day, necked up .30 Newton Brass to .375 & they said it beat the vaunted .375 H&H handily...with a modern type case, little body angle, etc.
Of course, the modern versions of the .375...with
little body taper also beat out the venerable .375 H&H...
Best Regards,
Tom

I repeat, what a relief that the .375 Ruger will be a unique new cartridge, and Newton did not beat them to it.

Also it seems that the Newton cartridges may have some rifle's chambered to differing specs, but the case is slightly smaller than the .375 Ruger is presumed to be (.532" base and rim).

COTW claims a base diameter of 0.523" and a rim diameter of .525" for the Newton cartridges.

I wonder if this is because they just measured some original ammo and that is what the specs of their specimen was? It might have been less than the max allowable case specs, of course.

Anybody got access to Dr. Ken Howell's book to look up the specs? That is the most reliable reference I know of.

Phil Sharpe's famous book: "Complete Guide to
Handloading" has high praise for the Newton cartridges & in the book pleads for Western to make .30 Newton Brass...also calling it a "cavernous"
case. Of course, we are dealing with yesteryear,
but you can learn a lot from gun & cartridge history. (Except for the smarties who know it all).
I have shot original factory Western .30 Newton cartridges, (also their brass) in my original Newton Rifles. The brass checks out pretty much the specs written in Donnelly's Cartridge Conversion Book. (Measurements taken). Newton was recognized by many authorities as a genius
cartridge designer...and I think his cartridges have been overlooked, mainly through the passage of time, the fact that they were only factory chambered in his rifles...and he went out of business. Otherwise, we might be shooting .30 Newtons instead of .300 Magnums.
A superior book, if you can find one is:
"Wildcat Cartridges" by Richard Simmons (1947
vintage). The experimenters such as P.O. Ackley, Fred Barnes, Phil Sharpe, etc., etc.
seemed to more keen than today's wildcatters &
experimenters...which is why I kinda respect the old timers...and what they did.
Best Regards,
Tom

Tom,
What measurements for base and Rim of the Newton cartridges does Donnelly give? I've got his book too but can't get to it right now.

Thanks

Reply to self:
Re: Donnelly specs

30 Newton:
rim = .519"
base = .524"
shoulder angle 24.67 degrees per side

35 Newton:
rim = .525"
base = .520"
shoulder angle 41.49 degrees


Just another example of the minor confusion over case specs so often found "out there."

with jamison making brass the 35 newton might have a renewal of popularity...

either that or the 35 ruger will be smack down popular...

damn! i wooda went with the 400 newton cuzz of the revival of the 411 bullets today...to each his own!

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/newtonarticle.htm

a must read...

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/index.html

good reading/resource/research

Howell lists .5280 and .5285 with 23º45' shoulder. That's the 35 Newton. Doesn't list the 30.
Has the 8x68mm as 5.118 and .5236 (or -20 and -36). Always looked like a good match to me. They were introduced right around the same time or I'd swear he used that case.
If the "416 Taylor" is .511 at the base and the 416 Howell is .530, Newton sits right in the middle.
Should get awefully close to 400@2400 at warm pressures.

can someone who knows jamison find out what specs he will be using to make the newton brass...

please god may thar be no rebate...

Yeah...what happens is a lot of the old data isn't
correct. I once had a set of .30 Newton dies made that were off a bit, so took issue with the die maker. He used the info he had...which wasn't exactly right...so I sent him new unfired Newton Brass, a Wilson headspace gauge for the .30 Newton & I forget whatall else, but all I had...and he agreed...the dies were off as his data wasn't correct. Since I have original Newton rifles, I just send off fired cases from my rifles..then they use them to make the reloading dies...simple as that. I'm not sure about the .35 Newton quoted data...my info says its simply the .30 Newton necked up to .35...I had some original .35 Newton cases & should have miked them for my own info., but just necked them down to .30 for my .30 Newton...my opinion is thus that the .35 is just the .30 necked up, or the .30 is the .35 necked down. I have my doubts as to the data in Donnelly's or Howell's.
Bruce Jennings in his book about Newton has some data that he researched & checked thoroughly...but I think his were of the Newton chamber dimensions. He did tell me what I relate...the .35 Newton is just the .30 Newton necked up. The only one a bit different is the .33 Newton & there was only one of them made. I forget the difference now, but it wasn't just the .30 Newton necked up. A friend has a custom one & he says its near to the .338 WinMag, but no belt.
Best Regards,
Tom

sooooooo you are saying the 35 newton DOES have a rebate??? if so might as well use 8x68 brass

hopfully jamison can erase this abomination by making it without rebate...

anyone cozy with jamison willing to inquire???

boom stick: I have original .30 & .35 Newton brass formerly made by Western & Speer...the brass is standard, unbelted type...no rebate. I don't care what errors there are in the books...I have the brass.
Also, I forgot that .411 bullets are more common now with the .405 round being made.
Also, you can contact Harry McGowen...he made a .40 (or .400) Newton for a friend of mine..I think he has a .35 Newton reamer. I have a .280 Newton & .30 Newton reamer. The .30 Newton reamer is an old one from yesteryear...which is just fine...the .280 is a newly made one by JGS of Coos Bay, Oregon. Harry McGowen can be reached at: 815-937-9816 He's in St. Anne, IL.
Best Regards,
Tom

phew! no rebate...

so with jamison making brass there should be a resurgence of the 35 and bring the 400 newton back from the dead...call it the 400 lazz(erous) of 400frank(enstein)

who is gunna make one??? 41 pistol bullets and 400 gr woodleigh bullets is tempting you isnt it?

Well...the .416 Taylor is highly regarded...and the .416 Newton is nearest to it.
But don't forget the .256 Newton, .30 Newton as well as .35 Newton cases are going to be made.
My .30 Newton outshoots my .300 Weatherby...
I would think the .35 Newton would be like a .358 Norma Magnum but sans belt.
I sent you a personal message...
Best Regards,
Tom

boom stick: Harry McGowen has probably made barrels for 50 years now...prices keep going up for sure. But his shop does excellent work...he made up a .50 Alaskan for me, many years back...with his barrel on a new Rem. Rolling Block receiver...it would shoot as good as you could hold it, supreme accuracy with my hard cast 680 gr. gas check bullets. Harry had done simply superlative work on my original Newton Rifles & built some for a friend of mine, including the .400 Newton (that got me to compete & have a .416 Newton built!) Anyway, Harry McGowen is well known in the industry & has a fine reputation with me for his high quality work. Plus he can build a .400 Newton & his barrels are excellent in my opinion.
Best Regards,
Tom

good to know...

the funny thing is with the new 375 ruger around i think the newton will be more popular and i think if you had to you might be able to make newton brass from it or would that be too thin??? we will have to wait and see how thick the ruger brass will be.

can anyone get a couple samples please?!?!?!?

just dont get fired in the process.