Guys what does it take to Safley get 2300fps + with a 500 gr form Lott???

Looks like Ill be building one soon, On a SS 70 classic and a McSwirly.

Usually enlarged primer pockets and brass that cannot safely be reloaded. I'd like to see an honest 2300fps Lott load that can be reloaded five times without the primers falling out. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by PRDATOR:
Guys what does it take to Safley get 2300fps + with a 500 gr form Lott???

Looks like Ill be building one soon, On a SS 70 classic and a McSwirly.

DONT DO IT! Get a 505 Gibbs, and then you cn safely get 2500 fps with a 600 grain bullet, no pressure signs.
PM me 4 loads when u do.
keep the Lott at 2200. Animals won't know the difference, I promise u!

I have called it quits @ 2250-75, with 500gr'ers.

quote:

Get a 505 Gibbs, and then you cn safely get 2500 fps with a 600 grain bullet, no pressure signs.

Stunt load, yes it can be done, but your recovery time will be very slow. I will take the Lott @ 500/2250, over the above suggestion, for faster follow up shots.

Keith

If you are only shooting 2200 fps get a 458 WM!

You can get 2300 fps and more in the Lott. I don't reload them so I don't care about primer pockets, even if that is true.

the lott would have been perfect if factory loaded at 2200, with lower pressure than the 458lott.

Will, man, your reads that "you don't care about pressure"

of course, if you make a winnie go 2200 with 500gr bullets, you are WAY over pressure, with powders available to reloaders.. let's not mention the "freak" heavy mag loading from hornady... it can NOT be duplicated by a reloader and be under spec pressure

Even the powder companies give loads for the 458 WM to 2150 fps and that must be conservative, lawyer information. I easily achieved 2150 fps in the 458 WM with 500 gr. bullets and no signs of high pressure.

Did the same with Lott at 2300 fps. The loads were highly compressed but there were no loose primer pockets, cratered primers, etc.

I don't see the point to having a Lott if it is only loaded as squib rounds. Since the 458 WM can get 2150+ fps, why bother with the Lott? But then I don't see this oft repeated need to be able to reload brass 10 times. Most every 500 gr. bullet now exceeds the cost of the brass. So you chuck the once-fired brass or even after 2 or 3 reloads if you are "over-pressure" (which I don't believe! Or is necessary to get 2300 fps). Big deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Usually enlarged primer pockets and brass that cannot safely be reloaded. I'd like to see an honest 2300fps Lott load that can be reloaded five times without the primers falling out. -Rob

Rob, do you feel the same way with 2400 from the .450 Acley?

Keith, I agree with you, it is NOT a hunting load; MY hunting load is 600 gr woodleigh @ 2100FPS using RL15 for soft points, and GSC 500gr @2400 for solids. I also think that a Lott with 500gr@2200 is more than enough.
Stunt load, yes! But some of like to hear ol Betsy roar, see the flash etc, hence the 12gaFH, the 700 nito etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
I have called it quits @ 2250-75, with 500gr'ers.

quote:

Get a 505 Gibbs, and then you cn safely get 2500 fps with a 600 grain bullet, no pressure signs.

Stunt load, yes it can be done, but your recovery time will be very slow. I will take the Lott @ 500/2250, over the above suggestion, for faster follow up shots.

Keith

So how about the loads that will get me there or close???
Thanks

Yes a 505 would be cool as would a 500 jeffy but not for this gun at this time.

84 grns. of IMR-4320
500 grain Woodleigh or Hornady

That will put you right at 2300fps.
But it depends on the rifle.
If it's not actually doing 2300, it will be close enough to make what you are hunting think it is.
85grs. is max for 2330fps, but I don't like compressing powder that much, so I backed off to 84grs. for me personally.
Jack Lott himself settled on 83 grs. of 4320, so if 84 won't cut it in the field, then the next thing to do is get a .577 double and forget everything else.

Lot of guessing going on here!

You can get an easy 2350 FPS with a Lott if you use IMR-4320 powder and use a 26" barrel. I know of no other powder that will do this at the same pressure. 83 grs. of IMR-4320 is Rifle magazines suggested load for 2300 plus in a Lott, and I have found that to be correct.

All of my chronographing has been done in 26" barrels, but in one particular rifle I got up to 2541 FPS with a truly max load, I reloaded that particular case 7 times and it was still good. it was definatly max and I was just testing the waters with a barreled action tied to a tire..I settled on a 2300 FPS load for hunting in all the Lott rifles btw..., that rifle had a very fast barrel, but another almost equaled that velocity..I won't tell you the load but the powder was IMR-4320, primers were flat but not cratering and primer pockets held up well enough with 7 loadings, no. 7 was OK but I could feel the primer going in pretty easy..

quote:

Originally posted by PRDATOR:
Guys what does it take to Safley get 2300fps + with a 500 gr form Lott???

Looks like Ill be building one soon, On a SS 70 classic and a McSwirly.

It's pushing it. Like any other large bore, I think it will depend some on barrel length.

In his book "Big Bore Cartridge Load Data Collection", Pierre van der Walt includes a prominent notation in the pressure tested .458 Lott data : "Take note that nobody but Barnes achieves in excess of 2250 fps with 500 grain bullets", and those loads were taken from 26" barrels.

I've never seen any sense in screwing with the Lott if it's to be loaded to the same intensity that produced so many problems for the .458 Win. Just throws the advantage away.
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Accurate Powders shows one load breaking 2300 from a 24" barrel, 61K though. Interestingly they also show 2460 as a faster and lower pressure powder for the 458 Win (2,192 at 53K in a 24" tube).

Accurate powder data

Without compressed loading, my 21" Lott does 2210fps with AA2520.. Factory Hornady Lott does.... You gussed it.... 2210fps. I tried IMR4320 and everything else in between... Alway's come back to the AA2520.. So in theory, this load should make 2300fps in a 23"+ barrel.

There are at least three powders that can get me to 2,300 fps with 500 grain slugs in my Lott with its 24 inch barrel - all at safe pressures.

Ah Grasshopers- Safe pressures. How do you know they are safe? Books? Primers? sticky bolt lift? Relative pressure gauges? or just plain good ol-Bullshit?
Here is what you do. Load and shoot the same case 5 times and see if the PRIMER FALLS OUT!! If so Bad . If not good! If you don't reload SHUT THE FUCK UP! YOU DON't KNOW SHIT! Right WILL? What will you do when your bolt sticks solid with your 2300fps make believe rounds and an ELE rams its tusks up your ass? We won't mind a bit, will we DUFUS!
Oh yes shoot the loads at the temp you will be using while hunting.
Good luck on 2300 fps at 95 degrees F or more from a Lott with a less than 26 inch barrel. Duh most are 22-24 inches.
Bent- Yes a .450 ackley can easily meet the criteria I described.
Hope a little honesty helps. -Rob

I thought a quality factory load from say Federal and Norma was 2300 for the Lott?

I've said in the ongoing thread on 458wm loads that I think/thought/will think again that I'd like to get 2150 minimum behind 500 grains and lower pressure, which likely means downloading the Lott. So, why is 500 grains @ 2200 fps and low pressure flawed thinking? I agree with whomever said it here that the Lott at 2200 might have been the ticket which is the same thing as saying Winchester should've pulled their heads out of their asses 50 yrs ago and just stuck that 500 gr bullet in an UNCUT 375 case and let it go...at 2200 fps!

So if someone here has a 458wm load of 500 grains at 2150-2200 out of a 24" bbl while lowering pressure I'd very much like to hear about it.

That is why I like my 460 Weatherby, built on an early Bauska action. 24" barrel, and EASILY does 2300 with 500 gr. and no signs of pressure. Some cases have been reloaded 10 times. I know a lot of people don't like the Weatherby, but I built this gun 20 years ago and at that time the 450 Rigby was unheard of. If I had it to do over now, I would build a 450 Rigby. Anyway, I do like the Lott, but don't think it is all that much improvement over a 458 Win. Again, my opine!

I agree. Although I shoot my Lott more than any other big one I own, I still think roomier is better, ala-Rigby, Gibbs, etc. And yes, I shoot my Lott with the 84-85 grn. of 4320 in hot Texas 100-110+ sun and heat, and have never had a sticky case. I ran the outdoor table test-placing them on the table in the yard for a few minutes until they were too hot to hold on to, then firing them. No problems. Never had any loose primers either, but then, I discard after 3 full loads.
Never had a problem whatsoever.
I do NOT know if it's actually getting close to 2300fps or not. But then, I don't care. I know it's close anyway. At least from published data.

I think I must add that the brass I used for all this was Hornady. I've changed to Jamison for now, so it may or may not be as good.
A heck of a lot of this has to do with the right brass, or all of this talk is of no consequence. I know of two other brands, which I would make a bet that they would cause some trouble, but I'm not naming names. What is good for one person might not work for another.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:

Bent- Yes a .450 ackley can easily meet the criteria I described.
Hope a little honesty helps. -Rob

Hey, now that is interesting!
A Lott will NOT do 2300 that way, but a .450 Ackley will do 2400 with the same bullet inside your criteria?

And Acklerizing the .458 winmag was just stupid, good people???

I have 2350fps with the 500 gr solids and 2280 fps with the soft nose could go to 2300 with the soft nose but 2280 is fast enought. I use IMR4320 powder.

The Lott just isn't a .450 Ackley. Never was, never will be. The .450 Ackley in its various forms( reamers are not all the same) simply has more powder capacity than the lott. The ONLY advantage the Lott has is factory stamped brass and loaded rounds for those too stupid, chicken or incompetent to reload or fire form their own brass. Oh yeah, factory built guns too. That ackley sure is hard to load for-Not!
Hop on a plane and come to LV and your welcome to shoot mine anyday. Warning leave your checkbook at home. I'm tired of loosing all my guns! 2 more departed yesterday! I'm having sellers remorse.
Finally as I said before if you long throat a .458 Win mag and load the bullet out .25, you can safely get 2150 out of it. Its basically equivalent to slightly short Lott at that point. It will even fit in some mag boxes.
Finally, you can probably get 2400 fps out of a lott case once. Just bring a hammer along to open the bolt. You could also long throat the Lott and do the equivalent of the long .458 win mag too but you'd need a custom mag box.-Rob

I have only been loading my Lott for about a year. It is my first big bore rifle.
I have been getting great results with H4895.
I shoot a load that averages 2285 ft/sec with the 500 grain Barnes Solid. And 2259 ft/sec with the 500 grain TSX. I have 7 loads in the brass with no bad indications. Early on I was achieving 2300 ft/sec but I did not like how heavily compressed the loads where. The Barnes bullets are long for their weight and do eat some case capacity.

I have since loaded the identical powder charge behind 450 grain bullets both Barnes and North Fork and I love the way it shoots. The NF solids run at 2321 ft/sec, the NF soft runs at 2346 ft/sec. These all shoot way under an inch with the NF 450 solids shooting consistent one hole groups. I could bump this up but it shoots so good I am not going to.

After reading what you have all posted I will try some IMR 4320. I have stuck with Hodgdon powders due to their stability in temperature swings. Last Sunday I was putting rounds down range in the desert at 05:45 and it was 90 deg. F. By 10:00 when I was done it was 102 deg F. This winter when I go out it will be 40-50 deg. F at the same time of day.

In all, I don’t see the difference at the animal between 2300 and 2285. It is just a numbers game for us to ponder.

One more point if your shooting 2285fps at 5000ft elevation, you'll be very unhappy with them at sea level.-Rob

hmmmm...seems y'all need the 460 g&a to get 500 @ 2400 within reason.

The elevation issue may be true. I have not factored that in. Where I shoot is about 1700 ft ASL. I need to read up on the effects of altitude.
Thanks ROB.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
hmmmm...seems y'all need the 460 g&a to get 500 @ 2400 within reason.

Or better yet, 2500fps with low pressure, and a bigger bullet dia to boot...





Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by 458Lottfan:
The elevation issue may be true. I have not factored that in. Where I shoot is about 1700 ft ASL. I need to read up on the effects of altitude.
Thanks ROB.

They are yanking your chain.

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
hmmmm...seems y'all need the 460 g&a to get 500 @ 2400 within reason.

Or better yet, 2500fps with low pressure, and a bigger bullet dia to boot...





Cheers,
Canuck

cant agree with you more...

turn that wimpy 470 mbogo into a mans gun!

585 belted magnum!

biggest thing you can do on the 505 gibbs case and the cz550 without a rebate.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6521043/m/137101817

I'm with Robgunbuilder as his experience reflects my observations. All mushrooms may be eaten.......some only once! Dr.C

Rob, so you're still burning cordite? There have been a few advancements, you know.

IMO, the need for a 500 gr bullet at over 2150 FPS,for hunting any game, is a myth! If you want more power, what you need is a larger dia bullet, not more speed. The gain in killing power past 2150 fps with a .458 dia bullet is not demonstrable, and the animal hit with it will show absolutely no difference in impact! The only demonstrable difference shown above 2150 fps with a 500 gr .458 bullet is more recoil, the burning of more powder, and reduced recovery time! NO VALUABLE GAIN AT ALL! Just my opinion!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
IMO, the need for a 500 gr bullet at over 2150 FPS,for hunting any game, is a myth! If you want more power, what you need is a larger dia bullet, not more speed. The gain in killing power past 2150 fps with a .458 dia bullet is not demonstrable, and the animal hit with it will show absolutely no difference in impact! The only demonstrable difference shown above 2150 fps with a 500 gr .458 bullet is more recoil, the burning of more powder, and reduced recovery time! NO VALUABLE GAIN AT ALL! Just my opinion!

do a 750 grain 585@ 2150 or the classic 2050...in a cz550 only 2K$ 585 belted magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
IMO, the need for a 500 gr bullet at over 2150 FPS,for hunting any game, is a myth! If you want more power, what you need is a larger dia bullet, not more speed. The gain in killing power past 2150 fps with a .458 dia bullet is not demonstrable, and the animal hit with it will show absolutely no difference in impact! The only demonstrable difference shown above 2150 fps with a 500 gr .458 bullet is more recoil, the burning of more powder, and reduced recovery time! NO VALUABLE GAIN AT ALL! Just my opinion!

Yes Mac, that's the point! Not more than 2150. Just 2150! Maybe a wee bit more, whatever some of these accurate loads work out to. But to lessen pressure too is a goal.

Should the Lott have a longer freebore? I've heard others mention that a converted Lott from a Win actually has a longer distance to the rifling than a standard Lott. If the whole mess was moved forward 1/4" instead of just the space for the brass (giving the Lott the same long throat as the Win) would this help? I ask this as a novice but feel free to rip me a new one. It just seems the Lott dosen't follow the 1 for 4 volume and 1 for 2 pressure rule of thumb I've read about very well, it seems like the Lott should be more of an improvement than it is.

As to if animals really need the extra speed I'm completely ignorant on that one...

The people that have 40, okay make it 30, buffalo with a 500 gr. bullet at 2150 fps and 30 with a 500 gr. bullet at 2300 fps, please stand up, and tell us it makes no difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The people that have 40, okay make it 30, buffalo with a 500 gr. bullet at 2150 fps and 30 with a 500 gr. bullet at 2300 fps, please stand up, and tell us it makes no difference.

So, Will, with all due respect to a fella that says pressure means nothing, have YOU taken 60 buffalo? Just checking to see if you meet your own standard for being able to post an opinion

Regarding the Hornady Factory loads that claim to be 2300 fps for both the soft and solid 500-grainers:

Take 5000 rounds of the softs and 5000 rounds of the solids and have 1000 rifles with 24" barrels shoot this ammo across 1000 calibrated and certified chronographs ...

You will get an average velocity of all 10,000 chronograph readings falling somewhere between 2200 and 2250 fps, and that is a very good thing.

I guarantee it.
If profanity helps me be more convincing then take this: @!$#%^ &#@$? XXX&%^$#@!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The people that have 40, okay make it 30, buffalo with a 500 gr. bullet at 2150 fps and 30 with a 500 gr. bullet at 2300 fps, please stand up, and tell us it makes no difference.

So, Will, with all due respect to a fella that says pressure means nothing, have YOU taken 60 buffalo? Just checking to see if you meet your own standard for being able to post an opinion

Not even close! But to say 2300 or 2150 fps or whatever is better or worse than something else or is needed or not needed without any basis seems kind of a stretch.