Whats is the difference between the .450 Vincent Short and the .458 African Express (not the .458 3", the one based on the .404 case shorten to 67mm/2.66")?

They seem much the same?
Anyone got a comparative photo or dimension drawings?

Thanks

Much the same. It is pictured on the web, in a listing of cartridges for Africa, maybe associated with the African Sporting Gazette web site? I can't remember whether the AE is 2.5" or 2.6".

.450 G&A Short
.450 Vincent Short
.450 Howell
and Van Horn
etc.

They are numerous, whether called 45, 450, 460 or .458, based on the .404 Jeffery, short or long, 2.5" to 2.85".

And there are other, fatter 2.5" cases based on the .416 Rigby or .460 Weatherby, etc.

All essentially boutique items. Might as well make your own brass to match your own pet.

I heed Fred Zeglin's advice in honesty of naming my pet wildcats.

My equivalent is the 45/404 Dakota RIPoff (45 DR).

Similarly we have the 458/.338 Lapua RIPoff (458 LR), and the 500/470 Mbogo RIPoff (500 MR).

rip...you did not list MY 458-404 wildcat...

call it the 458-404 b.s.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rip...you did not list MY 458-404 wildcat...

call it the 458-404 b.s.

Honestly?

I think the 8.5 degree Jeffery shoulder is too weak and small as is if you are just necking it up and trimming it down.

It does not deserve mention until you prove it works.

I would recommend you sharpen the shoulder a bit. If you do that, what do you get?

Answer: the 45/.404 Dakota RIPoff

Actually the .404 Jeffery is already a minimum body taper cartridge. No meaningful gains are possible by blowing out the body/shoulder.

The overall cartridge taper and slick feeding of the .404 Jeffery come from the long slope of the shoulder and the long neck. With the shoulder that "long" it is OK for it to be that gradual.

If You mess with it by necking it up, you shorten the shoulder drastically. Then it is very weak IMHO.

lots!! the vincent has a fairly long neck, and I believe only a couple (i mean 2) rifles were chambered for it.

that's one of the perils of big bore wildcats.. those WANT to shoot them regularly are rare, those that DO shoot them reguraly are rarer!!

in either event, using the RUM brass, which has a (legal term) bastard connection back the the 404, is far cheaper and faster to get, here in the states... functionally, the 45/404 RIPo and the 458 AR are close, with the nod for case capacity going to....

drumroll

the 458 AR!!

jeffe

There have been a couple different versions I understand but the 458 AE I am aware of has a case length of 2.673", I think. It has a standard load length of 3.400". And it has a 35° shoulder.

yeah i know the shoulder is that of olive oil's (think popeye's girlfriend) and i like my simple 404 neck trimmed version with the original bullet best...just had to razz

my vote in 458 is the a.r.

Wink seems to have the right poop.

Boomer,
Your .404 Jeffery Short is a good one, and it has been done by smiths around the world.

I like shoulders of 20 degrees to 35 degrees (semi-angle/per-side-angle) on my pets, and 90% to 100% of caliber for length of necks, and at least 20 thou per side shoulder step, and at least 7.5 thou per inch of body taper, and no rebate to the rim, and no belt.

Hopefully the .375 Ruger fulfills all that. The 45/404 Dakota does.