I went to Tip Burns shop yesterday and picked up my 375H&H that he built for me. This makes a pair of DGR built on Remington 30S's. So my Lott now has a little Bubba(brother). Both have the same sights, recoil pads, rust bluing, barrel bands, 24" barrels, ect. The only real difference will be that the 375H&H will get a scope for primary use and the Lyman 48 will be backup system. The Lott has a #5 Shilen contour and the 375 has a #4 Shilen contour.

458 Lott on top, 375H&H on bottom.


Keith

Nice!

very nice!!!!!. ..i'm headed to tips' next weeeknd...

Very nice Keith. Great to finally see the rifles after hearing about them in Dallas. By the way the ear plugs are working great. Been shooting lots of sporting clays and still on my first set of batteries. I think I'd be lost without them. White noise is pretty much a non-issue even though they're the analogs. Love 'em. Wouldn't be without them now. Thanks.

David Walker

Hog Killer-

Very, very nice!!! More pictures, please; I love to look at Mod. 30's and Enfields. Tip does such a great job!!!! More details on the .375 H&H. What scope bases are you going to use?

x2mosg-

What electronic ear-plugs did you get?

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
I went to Tip Burns shop yesterday and picked up my 375H&H that he built for me. This makes a pair of DGR built on Remington 30S's. So my Lott now has a little Bubba(brother). Both have the same sights, recoil pads, rust bluing, barrel bands, 24" barrels, ect. The only real difference will be that the 375H&H will get a scope for primary use and the Lyman 48 will be backup system. The Lott has a #5 Shilen contour and the 375 has a #4 Shilen contour.

458 Lott on top, 375H&H on bottom.


Keith

Now those I like!!

Good, solid working rifles without the pretty shit.

Glad to hear you got your project finished. Congratulations.

VERY VERY Nice, Keith..
Can't wait to see and shoot it
jeffe

Very Nice!!!!...

David, glad to hear that you are enjoyong your ESP's.

Mark, I have an orginal Redfield one-piece base (3 hole) and a set of medium hight rings. I plan on adding a lever to the left hand screw and flatting the side for emergancy iron sight use. I am going to use a Redfield Widefield 3-9x scope that has been unused for the last 30 years.

Demonical, working rifles is what I was after. Those are the original stocks too.

jeffe, plan on it.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by 30 Caliber Mag Fan:
Hog Killer-

Very, very nice!!! More pictures, please; I love to look at Mod. 30's and Enfields. Tip does such a great job!!!! More details on the .375 H&H. What scope bases are you going to use?

x2mosg-

What electronic ear-plugs did you get?

30 Cal,

As Keith pointed out, I got the analog ESP's that he sells. Got him to do the casts of my ears in at DSC to have them made, as well as a set of standard molded passive plugs for the really foul weather stuff. The ESP's are great. Only issue (if you want to call it that) is when on a Ranger/Rhino on the clays course or in the woods, the engine kicks in the sound dampening. Guess that's a good thing. Protects my ears from the engine noise. Amazing what you can hear with those things in. First time I used them was the first time I got to shoot my 375 after Roger Ferrell finished it. Was next to a little creek that I hadn't given much attention to when I got there, but when I put the ESP's in, wow, the slightest trickle of the water, the slightest crunch of leaves anywhere around. Really cool. On the clays course, it's really nice to be able to hear the shooter call for a bird without standing in his back pocket. Like I said before, I want be without them again.

Keith, your rifles are similar to my M70. Good quality, stout, useful components, factory wood, to make a damn fine working rifle. Those two will make you proud. Maybe I'll try to make it to the next Bubba Shoot. If not, I'll see you in Dallas in January.

David

More pictures and more details please?

How did you set them up?
And why for each part?

Why peep, not wedge or scope?
Why barrel band, not stock sling swivel?
What recoil reduction? (Dead Mule, Break, None?)
Other modifications?

A 300H&H will complete your battery!

Great rifles, Keith! And ditto what Forrest said!

Is this yer varnmit rig?

quote:

Originally posted by ddunn:
More pictures and more details please?

How did you set them up?
And why for each part?

Why peep, not wedge or scope?
Why barrel band, not stock sling swivel?
What recoil reduction? (Dead Mule, Break, None?)
Other modifications?

Why Peep? (ghost ring) .. most accurate iron sight available and longest possible sight radius

why barrel band? Shoot a big bore with a sling stud, and get it in your left hand.. off they come...

recoil reduction? You ARE kidding right? Keith's POPGUN loads are rem 405 at 2200fps ... a 375 full house is a pellet rifle compared to a full lott load.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

Why Peep? (ghost ring) .. most accurate iron sight available and longest possible sight radius

why barrel band? Shoot a big bore with a sling stud, and get it in your left hand.. off they come...

recoil reduction? You ARE kidding right? Keith's POPGUN loads are rem 405 at 2200fps ... a 375 full house is a pellet rifle compared to a full lott load.

Makes sense
And I guess I need to change my shooting stance to not use the sling the way I would on a 30-06.

I am a newbie and the most powerful thing I have shot is my 45-70, but why not recoil reduction?
I am a big fan of not beating the hell out of myself if I don't need to. Most people shoot lesser calibers better than big bores, because hey don't fear shooting lesser guns.
With a recoil reduction, do I need to remove the front swivel?

I have handled Hog Killers 458 Lott, and it is a nice bolt rifle.

Rusty has a 404 Jeffery done by Tip, and it is very nice as well. I have shot it, and it functions, and is accurate.

Hog Killer, that should be a great 375 H&H.

NOW IF, you will just duct tape the two of them together [a, la, Sigorney Weaver], you can come hunt with the DRSS.

Sorry buddy, could not resist.

ddunn,

If you can handle full-tilt 45/70 loads, you can easily handle a 375. The recoil in it isn't bad at all in a properly weighted rifle with a decent (decelerator) pad. My M70 is a pussycat.

Step up to a 416 and your getting up in recoil pretty well. If you can't take that much, go back to the 375 and be happy. It can do all you'll ever need.

If the 416 doesn't hurt you, step on up to the 458's. You're out of my expertise here, as I've yet to fire one. But the Lott is by all accounts, pretty stiff, if not punishing. Again, properly weighted rifle, properly fitted stock and a good recoil pad should fix you up if it doesn't cross your tolerance threshold.

Bottom line is you can use a recoild dampener such as a mercury reducer or a dead mule, but essentially all your doing is adding weight in one spot that'll screw up the balance of your rifle. So there's something else to have to deal with. As for muzzle brakes, only on the very largest are they used. They make way too much noise to hunt with, both for yourself and anyone else with you.

Moral to this story, Don't bit off more than you can chew. My 416 quite possibly will be my stopping point, but then again, I may have to suffer through a Lott in another year's time.

Better to shoot a smaller rifle well than a larger one poorly.

David

Tony, I thought about making a post on the DR forum with that idea.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
You ARE kidding right? Keith's POPGUN loads are rem 405 at 2200fps ... a 375 full house is a pellet rifle compared to a full lott load.

With a .416 you don't need anything over 2400fps MV; with a .458 you do not need anything over 2200 truth be told.

One of the BullShit things that anyone will tell you is that high velocity is important with big bore DG rifles. Any time people are talking about FULL-HOUSE loads, take it with a grain of salt, since they are utterly not required.

Whatever cartridge you end up going with, just load it sensibly. Whatever the max listed velocity is, stay comfortably below it, especially if you think recoil will bother you. Forget the nonsense about stuffing the powder and velocity to MAX, so-called Full-House loads.

Kevin Robertson makes an excellent point in his book, Africa's Most Dangerous, that he would prefer that hunters reduced the muzzle velocity of the cartridges they use, whether they are .375's, .416's or whatever.
He feels the reduction in velocity will achieve several things, not the least of which is the average guy will shoot it better; there is much less chance of shooting through your target animal and wounding another and he also demonstrates with mathematical formulas the profound differences in recoil vs killing power, as velocity is increased.
The hunter get punished a lot, in increased recoil, to gain very little in killing effect.

He uses John Taylor's knockout formula to demonstrate that little increase in K.O. power results form increased muzzle velocity, but a whole lot of increase in recoil does happen.

In a nutshell, Kevin Robertson says that he is baffled by AMERICAN hunters quest for hyper velocity.

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
I went to Tip Burns shop yesterday and picked up my 375H&H that he built for me. This makes a pair of DGR built on Remington 30S's. So my Lott now has a little Bubba(brother).

Keith

Very, very nice Keith!!



Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

In a nutshell, Kevin Robertson says that he is baffled by AMERICAN hunters quest for hyper velocity.

I don't know who Kevin Robertson is but maybe you should introduce him to a 600 yard shot at a Bull Elk in erratic 20 knot conditions and see what he thinks about his go-slow hypothesis??

Americans aren't hunting Horned Cows at 25 yards...

ddunn, recoil managment is 97% mental. If you train yourself, working up in recoil slowly and in steps. You will probably be surprised what you can handle and shoot accuratly with the proper technique.

Demonical, as for the hunters K R is referring to, more practice with their heavies will better serve their shooting skills. See my post to ddunn.

Keith

FYI, Kevin Robertson is referring specifically to Dangerous Game rifles and calibers. Dangerous game is shot at close ranges normally and hyper velocity is not required

I read so many posts by guys that are thinking about getting their first "heavy rifle" and most are worried about recoil; it's their biggest concern... "What's the recoil like on a .375, .416 etc?"

Yet experienced guys, instead of offering sound advice on how to handle recoil, turn around and start talking to the Newbie about full-house loads and shit like that. What the hell kind of help is that to somebody that is worried about taking the jump up from a .270Win to a .375H&H?

What is a common thing these guys do when they get their first DGR? The next thing you know they are asking what kind of muzzle break they should get!

I think more emphasis should be placed on shooting technique, proper handloading to SANE VELOCITIES, bullet selection etc, and I totally agree with the stuff that Robertson has to say about the North American - yeah I said Americans originally, but Canucks are just as crazy as Yanks - obsession with velocity.

The "British Standard" has not changed in my opinion; 2150fps to 2400fps with bullets of appropriate sectional density (.300 and up) is the key, regardless of what the game is or the cartridge/caliber. The stuff John Taylor had to say is still true! It's been proven for well over 100 years!

As far as shooting non-dangerous game at long ranges that is a completely different subject...

Demonical,
I've met and talked with Kevin, a great guy, and one of the few human beings as tall and as big as I am. He's a great and well informed hunter and doctor.

He posts here as doktari or doctari, and Keith is a believer in Kevin's heavy for caliber concepts

quote:

What is a common thing these guys do when they get their first DGR? The next thing you know they are asking what kind of muzzle break they should get!

NOT EVEN CLOSE, the most common thing said after someone shoots a 375 or 416 (other than weatherby) is "wow, that wasn't anything like as bad as I was worried about" .. Followed by "I shot a whole box using the feedback I got from you guys" .. and the guy that doesn't underetand stock fit (this is why I mentioned that Kevin is as big as me) .. he gets a scope cut from it being too short.

No one, but yourself, on this thread, is advocating running a 375 or a lott past their designed specifications. Those rounds were designed by people, for good reason. and they are 2300 FPS for the lott and the BRITISH specification of 300gr at 375. this is a strawman arguement, and really not worth arguing about, thought I wanted you to be aware that NO ONE has said "run your lott at 2400"


You, personally, don't understand that Kevin POV is that conventional bullets perform best under 2400 fps, and you should shoot the heaviest bullet you can and hit that maximum speed. Seems like a sutble difference, but it is CRITICAL.. let me use your technique, heavy bullets at near the same speed kick MORE A 375 with a 350gr at 2400fps kicks MORE than a 300gr at 2500fps. (in a 9# gun) 52 vs 45 ft-lbs . in a lott, a 550 at 2250, 10# gun, is 82.5ft-lb, a 500gr at 2300 is about 72.5

Now, you can learn from this or not. But Kevin's point is that bullets come apart at high velocity, so rather than using the maximum velocity of a case, use the maximum bullet weight .. either way it is the max, and causes more recoil.

To John Taylor, the 375 wasn't a bigbore.

Recoil largely in the mind, and is a matter of practice. The greenhorn with 150 rounds through his 458winmag thinks he knows everything about the gun ... that it kicks like hell and won't group... 500 rounds later, he realizes he no longer much notices the recoil of his 458 and it is one of the most accurate rifles he owns...

and then the most common thing said ?????

"Wow, now that I understand recoil, I wish I had gotten a lott, and loaded it down to winmag to train with"

Oh, yeah, you are more than welcome to come on down for the next big bore shoot and shoot some whompers .... once you start crossing the .500, you'll find out what recoil IS and that a 416 aint.
jeffe

D,
You do realize that rounds that Rob, Neal, and I invented are on this list, right?
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=994100778#994100778

jeffeosso I meant to stress that Kevin Robertson emphasizes reducing velocity, and I agree with that.
I am not a proponent of max velocity on big bores! I dunno, maybe I didn't properly explain that, but I don't know how you came up with that interpretation from what I wrote.

FWIW, I have loaded my Lott to 2370fps, with 500gr Hornady soft points. At that velocity the recoil in my CZ-550 is something like 75ft/lbs.

I shoot a .458 Lott (rather then .458WM) to ensure I am safely, consistently above that 2150fps MV. I do not believe there is any gain beyond 2250fps MV, so I played with my loading until I found something that consistently got me 2235fps. That is 75.5grs H-335 and a 500gr Hornady.

And that is what I meant to emphasize; that the difference in recoil from the FULL-HOUSE 2370fps load in my Lott, to the sedate 2235fps, that I am shooting, is very significant in felt recoil. It's something like 75ft/lbs at the faster velocity, down to about 63ft/lbs at the slower velocity, but guaranteed, that bullet at 2235fps will kill anything that walks.

I have not shot anything above the .458 Lott, but thanks for the invite.


Btw, his book Africa's Most Dangerous is one of the best reads I have had in a while. Very well written! I would love to be able to talk with Kevin and hunt with him too.

Sir,
Kevin emphasizes maximum wieght, at its maximum velocity, as long as it is under 2400 FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
A 300H&H will complete your battery!

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Great rifles, Keith! And ditto what Forrest said!

Ditto, as well!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
D,
You do realize that rounds that Rob, Neal, and I invented are on this list, right?
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=994100778#994100778

I understand that you have gone well beyond where I think my comfort level will be.

Right now I am still mastering max 45-70 loads. I can not say I enjoy them. I enjoy (and I am more accurate with) my powder puff 45-70 loads.

But enough about me, I want to hear more about how these guns are setup and why.