I am going to patent the "Cheek piece safety"
Kind of like grip safety on the 1911

the safety is there so some dummy does not kill a innocent bystander because he thought his weapon was unloaded. With the excuse (I DID NOT KNOW IT WAS LOADED)those seven word have killed way to many people. common since goes a long ways in this world. I would also add that stupidity get's people killed but I'm to polite to say that

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Because sh*t can happen

I think that is the right answer :-)

Not using a safety mechanism on any device because you are just too good to have an accident or to have a disaster befall you is an exercise in folly.

quote:

I do realize if you hunt with a round in the chamber they are needed. But then again, you would not be hunting in my group if you did

Randy,

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Hunting in Africa, we follow a very simple proceedure.

Each of us chambers a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

The rifle remains loaded like this until we either get back to the truck, or shoot something and we are gutting it.

At no time would any of us walk in the bush with a rifle that is not chambered.

Outside the vehicle, rifle loaded. That is what both PH's told me to do, and so I did.

Rich
DRSS

Pretty much everyone I know is a "one in the chamber, safety on, and careful where you point the durn'd thing" style of hunter.

I've known guys who spooked Mr Whitetail just carelessly snicking the safety off at 50 yards, I'm pretty sure a wary buck would hear a bolt work from two mountains over.

But different strokes for different folks and I'll probably never make it to Alaska to not get offered to hunt with y'all.

you really cant tell what somebody is going to do when they get excited, even some that seem like they have a fair amount of experience, some will forget to take safty off,or cycle the gun dry, stop to pick up brass, you need to train yourself and dont trust anybody you hunt with. i hunted with a guy who didnt trust his saftey so he chambered up then decocked the gun by lowering the bolt while pulling the trigger, this lets the firing pin rest on the primer. his theory was just cock the bolt when you need it. time bomb. another guy who has a asst guide licsense and has shot at least 500 animals on subsistense tags in the last 10 yrs was having a headspace problem with handloads, first time he pulled trigger "click" second time bang on most of his loads, he asked me and not joking if he should pre fire his rounds then put them in the magazine, even better time bomb

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I would NEVER hunt with someone who carried a round in the chamber. Guide, no guide, Africa, Alaska, or elsewhere. Safety or not. Unfortunately this veered off topic but that should of been expected. But I am truly amazed at how many of you hunt with a round in the chamber.

This topic got bantered around for many pages on 24hourcampfire and the result was pretty much the same: A few guys from alaska lectured everybody else about how crazy they were to hunt with a loaded rifle. It must be a regional thing. Where I'm from (mississippi) no one hunts with an unloaded rifle. I've never even heard anyone discussing hunting with an unloaded rifle. The idea seems ludicrious to me. I'm glad you've found something that works for you but please don't try and tell a bunch of experienced hunters that they're idiots because they don't do it your way. Not everyone hunts in a place where the game affords you an opportunity to load your rifle while they stand around and wait for you. In some places that will get you eaten, in others it'll merely cost you your trophy.

Also, please drop the indignant statements of how you would never hunt with someone who carried a round in the chamber. I seriously doubt that anyone here gives half a shit that they're going to miss out on the pleasure of being your hunting companion.

Yep, condition red is the only way I role.

I have actually paid some attention to this subject, without much success. So did Jeff Cooper, and he never actually reached a satisfactory conclusion.

Here's all I know for sure:
1. Revolvers w/out safeties do not injure any more people by accident than do semi-autos that dohave safetie.
2. The Win M70/Dakota 76/ et al 3-position safety makes me feel better about things. I can, and do, make mistakes. A positive safety does not.
3. You can't engineer around a dumbass.

Good hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
The only exception here in the UK is hill stalking as done in Scotland. In that the rifle (as in the gun) is really only relevant right at the end of the stalk.

Up until that moment it is normally kept in a gunslip with either a loaded magazine and no round in the chamber (or indeed but never seen it done with chamber and magazine empty).

So in fact on the hill the safety never gets used. You go from empty chamber to loaded chamber to taking the shot.

Not an exception to the rule.

Traditional Scottish hill stalking is a perversion of the rule.

In my experience the so-called stalking is done with chamber (and magazine, should there be one) completely empty.

Most likely because the gentry are so inbred that they cannot and should not be trusted with a loaded firearm.

Utterly idiotic behavior - as concerns those of us with functioning nervous systems, of course.

IMHO, Scottish hill stalking is assisted and risk-free sniping, nothing more, nothing less.

Not hunting - and not anything close to what, in most places, is accepted as hunting - not in any way, shape or form.

"you really cant tell what somebody is going to do when they get excited, even some that seem like they have a fair amount of experience, some will forget to take safty off,or cycle the gun dry, stop to pick up brass, you need to train yourself and dont trust anybody you hunt with. i hunted with a guy who didnt trust his saftey so he chambered up then decocked the gun by lowering the bolt while pulling the trigger, this lets the firing pin rest on the primer. his theory was just cock the bolt when you need it. time bomb. another guy who has a asst guide licsense and has shot at least 500 animals on subsistense tags in the last 10 yrs was having a headspace problem with handloads, first time he pulled trigger "click" second time bang on most of his loads, he asked me and not joking if he should pre fire his rounds then put them in the magazine, even better time bomb."

I think it comes down to hunting styles. While I've surprised (and been SURPRISED!!!) by moose and bears at spitting distance, I've never had "buck fever" as most AK animals I hunt are spotted AT LEAST 2-3 hours before a shot is fired, often much much longer. After slogging through brush, willow, muskeg, swamp, and crossing rivers and tundra to get within rifle range fatigue is much more the prevalent emotion than excitement. That comes when the critter is first spotted, the shot is just the begining of the final act.

Bob

quote:

Scottish hill stalking is assisted and risk-free sniping, nothing more, nothing less.

Can anyone say anything different about most US hunting? How is it any different?

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:

quote:

Scottish hill stalking is assisted and risk-free sniping, nothing more, nothing less.

Can anyone say anything different about most US hunting? How is it any different?

Bob, at least in most places in the USA, one is trusted to carry his own rifle, and load it and unload it as he pleases.

Insofar as Scottish hill stalking is concerned, the so-called hunter is treated as royalty or an idiot, as concerns firearms.

Not that there's much difference, I suppose - but I am neither.

Michael Robinson, well said!

Bob

quote:

Insofar as Scottish hill stalking is concerned, the so-called hunter is treated as royalty or an idiot, as concerns firearms.

A bit over stated but not entirely untrue although it is actually not as easy as you might think.

However there is the old, old story of the "stalker (the servant who carries the gun) being told by the laird that he has a new "rifle" to go out with on the hill the next day (the honoured guest who actually does the shooting of the deer at the end of it all).

The "stalker" asks of the laird "Aye Sir, this Mr Smith do you want me to get him a beast, show him a beast of just walk him out?"

Oops!

If I am outside of a vehicle, the rifle is loaded. This includes being loaded in the cabin. I also carry a pistol that is never unloaded, unless it is being cleaned, and my autoloading defensive rifles are always loaded and close at hand.

I understand why some of you would be unsure of yourselves, but don't accuse me of the same.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
If I am outside of a vehicle, the rifle is loaded. This includes being loaded in the cabin. I also carry a pistol that is never unloaded, unless it is being cleaned, and my autoloading defensive rifles are always loaded and close at hand.

I understand why some of you would be unsure of yourselves, but don't accuse me of the same.

I didnt hear anyone accuse another of anything. On the same note, I am very confident in my ability to chamber a round as the rifle is being shouldered and get the shot off in time. And it is not an "Alaskan thing". But even if it were kinda ironic that so many up here do not chamber a round yet we have more "dangerous" game (grizzlies or brownies) than all the other 49 states combined. Ask Phil Shoemaker what his policy is about carrying rounds in the chamber. I may be wrong but remember reading something about his comments that it isnt allowed on his hunts unless on final stalk, etc. Perhaps he can chime in and set the record straight

Boltman, I dont give a shit (or half a shit whatever that might be) if any of you want to hunt with me or not. What started out with a simple question about a safety and a few of you turned it into name calling. I wasnt being moral, or thinking I was above anyone else. It is how I hunt, and the vast majority of the people I know. An empty gun has never killed another person unless it was used as a club or spear.

Time to start a new thread!

Many states now require hunter safety training and, agree or not, the course teaches "don't chamber a round" until you are ready to shoot

I used to drive up and visit Elmer Keith at his home in Salmon several times a year. He had over a hundred firearms in his home and office. All of them were loaded, except muzzleloaders and those (DRs) that were broken down and encased. His notion was that if you immediately tell people "That's Loaded" the temptation to check trigger pulls was eliminated. Everybody knew his guns were loaded, ditto for most of the rest of the state.

we refer to empty firearms in Idaho as "clubs".

I started teaching Hunter Safety Classes here in 1979, and have never taught a kid that, nor has anybody I have taught with.

Rich
DRSS
If I have it in hand, it's loaded.

Im my limited African experience, round chambered, safety on, and the barrel never covers a human.

When climbing into a deer blind, loaded but not chambered until I get situated, and then chambered, safety on.

I can understand why a guide would want a client to have an unloaded firearm. Many clients are poor gunhandlers, and many who are experienced hunters are not good shooters and may be inexperienced in handling loaded weapons safely.

One in the chamber, safety on. If we're traversing heavy cover, brush, then safety on and protect the trigger guard with the hand. If we're climbing over fences, downed trees, uneven terrain (talus rocks), then it's "unload and pass the guns to the other side of the obstacle."

Muzzle control at all times, loaded or not.

But in DG country, that gun is your defense line, and it's not going to do you any good if unloaded.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
The CZ safety thread has me thinking about a safety. No one that I hunt with carries a round in the chamber unless we are in final approach mode or in a dangerous area such as approaching a moose kill in grizzly country. I will not even load my double when moose hunting untill we see a animal and are closing in on the final stalk. It is all about safe gun handling. No rounds in the chamber untill needed and then never point the rifle in an unsafe manner.
When I used to hunt with Remington rifles the safety's were removed. But now most of my rifles are Winchesters or Rugers so the safety stays on the rifle but is never used.
To me, it is just something more to worry about and to flick off when the rifle is needed. Think about it for a minute and look at it with a fresh approach before answering. What good is a safety over good gun handling? They are useless at a range where the rifle is either loaded and being shot, or it has to be unloaded and action opened on the range. Revolvers have existed for a long time without a safety.
What is your opinion?

I do realize if you hunt with a round in the chamber they are needed. But then again, you would not be hunting in my group if you did

If you cannot safely carry a loaded rifle I don't want to hunt with you.

You can do that, as long as you do not expect to guide out-of-state hunters. This un-safety thing some of you in Alaska practice concerns me.
But, since I would get the safety issue dealt with to my satisfaction before I sent a dime, that would not be an issue.
Have you disabled the safeties yet on your DR's?

Rich
DRSS