I been thinking lately as to getting a real Stopping Rifle for dangerous big game. However, I am not astute as some on this forum that have used such rifles and calibers.

I will be looking at the .500 Jeffery, the .505 Gibbs, 500 A-Square and .577 NE. So do any of you have any pro's or con's to add? I certainly do appreciate your words of wisdom....including ALF.
How about Mr. Saeed speaking up and giving me a tip or two.LOL

I prefer the 505 over all of them but that's because I have one.
Problem is brass and Bullets are limited.

Out of all of them, I reckon 500J the best nowadays, brass available, larger bullet selection in .510 from lightweight pig bullets to 600gn heavy weights.

The only down side that some mention re the 500J is the short neck but it
has never been a problem for me. (I have a custom made Mauser in 500J).

577NE is really a Double cartridge.

You could look at one of the AR design big bores, Mbogo ?

.

Blue Dog,
welcome to the club.. litteraly.

when you go past the 40s, the 50s get pretty expensive to shoot.. but that's okay...

the .510 is the cheapest to shoot, of the 50s.
so, i'll focus on those.

the 500 asquare (called a2) or 510 wells - a 460 weatherby full length necked to .510 .. great rounds, require an enfield, CZ or PH or other magnum actions.

510 KX, 500 Mbogo - rigby cases to .510, full length. same as above

500 jeffery - lets face it, this is the benchmark. it CAN fit in a mauser, and CAN have feedign issues. This was designed to be the most in the least, for the early 20th century. it flat out works. case is FAT and rebated (so are all the weatherby cases, though) and can deliver all you want in power and recoil.

495 a2 - same as 500 a2, but slightly shorter. works better than a full length in a standard action

500 AccRel (yeah, its mine)- its a reimagining of the 500 jeffery. .. its a shortened rigby case, no belt, no rebate, and fits in a standard action. sure, there's feeding work to do, but only OUT, not fore and aft. you can take a 600gr pill over 2300... i quit at that stage.. even I don't need to know it will go that much more.

490/500 lapua/tornado - a close design to the 500 AccRel, but uses .500 bullets. a great choice.

here's the thing.. if you have a ruger mkII or a model 70 in xxx rem/win mag, you can send it to mcgowen, they have the 500 accrel reamer and dummies, and can get you do quickly, as well as cost effectively. buy an accurate innovations or hogue FULL CHASSIS stock, and have your stuff together and shooting.

if you want a MONStER, consider the 550 magnum (cz action) or 550 Express (standard action, suggest ruger)... and things get WILD.

Jeffeosso, thank you for the information!

Blue Dog:

One caliber not mentioned is the 600 OK. CCMDoc has his for sale and it is built on a Granite Mountain Action. I have a 500 Jeffery and love it but if I was building one today, I would go with Jeff's 500 AccRel. Jeff can help you and I think it it may be the best of the 50s.

Hey Jeffeosso
What happens when you neck up the 500 Accrel to .550"?
550 Accrel?
Extractor headspace like the 50 B&M and Ed's 577 on the Gibs.

thanks guys.. my work is from the shoulders of giants.. schuler would have, in my hubris, designed the 500 AccRel if he was alive today.. as i started with his concept.

boomie.. giant 45 ACP .. and no better ballastics

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Blue Dog:

One caliber not mentioned is the 600 OK. CCMDoc has his for sale and it is built on a Granite Mountain Action.

Thanks for the plug, Dave

I like all of the suggestions but in the 500 range I like the 550 Magnum

BluEdog- The .600 OK is a proven cartridge with probably over 100 guns built and operational. Its way more gun than necessary,but it will definitely stop anything that walks this planet. It's a proven caliber and the guns plain work as well as AHR can make one to your taste. It's quite shootable and completely reliable.
In the .500 range, the .500 a2 is a real winner. Do alot of reading and research on this website before you jump in. There are slot of horror stories usually told by the unwary. If you can actually shoot a real stopping rifle in a variety of the calibers described above before you make up your mind -Rob

I chose the 505 Gibbs because it is not likely to have feeding problems (and mine feeds brilliantly), and because it has a big case so you can load it up if you want. My rifle is built on a Granite Mountian Arms action, with a 23 inch barrel (the work of the late Fred Wells, with some further customisation by my own gunsmith Rob Blomfield to increase the LOP by 3/4 incha and to add a 2.5x Leupold compact in Smithson QD mounts). I use 130gn AR2209 (equiv to H4350) behind the 600gn Woodleigh for 2270 fps, and that is a mild load. I have loaded up to 2380 fps with the 600gn bullet with no pressure signs, but I prefer not to go too far above the recommended impact velocity for the Woodleigh bullet. I also have used 142gn AR2209 behind the 525gn Woodleigh for 2500fps,(still no pressure signs), with devastating results to the pigs I shot, although I wouldn't recommend that velocity for big game as you won't get enough penetration. I have read that you can get around 2500fps with the 600gn bullet, but I don't see the need to beat yourself up that much. (recoil gets quite impressive even at 2380 fps). Barnes make a 525gn 505 caliber bullet, as do Hornady now, so there are 3 525gn bullets available and one 600gn bullet, in softs, and one 525gn and one 600gn in FMJ. There may be others I am not aware of. I have got some Norma cases (after firing extremely costly factory ammo) and also some Horneber cases, but mostly I use Bertram cases. I believe A square and Jamieson also make 505 Gibbs cases. I don't think any of the components are hard to get. I reload for $3 per shot, including the cost of cases, so I don't think it is too exorbitant. I can't say the 505 Gibbs is any better than any of the others (because I have no real experience with the others), but I am very happy with the choice I made.

If you want a traditional 50 cal in a bolt action rifle, the 500 Jeff and the 505 Gibbs are really the only choices. The 500 A2 or 500 Mbogo are very good non-traditional choices as well as the 500 AR.

Jeffe chose not to mention his work with the bullet diam. .498".
The idea is to be ahead of a 50 cal ban that many fear is
inevitable here in the USA and perhaps world wide. Do the 500
ACCREL in .498 and you're likely into a rifle that is all that
you will ever need anywhere. I think the bullet weights were in
the 570 grain range. Granted bullet choices are not what you see
in .510". The 600 OK based on all available data is the rifle THOR -
Norse God of Thunder would opt for if he were to be a bolt action
aficionado.

the 49 caliber.. .498 bullets.. essentially a 500 AccRel with a NOT A FIFTY ANYWHERE bullet.

I have used the 500 Jefferys, .470 and 500 N.E. on Africas stuff..

My personal conclusion is they are too heavy to pack around all day in 110 plus weather, at least for this somewhat lazy person and that is my only legitamate complaint. I will have to state they don't seem to kill any better than the 40 calibers, even on elephant, and I know thats argueable.

I settled on the 9.3x62, 375, 404 adn 416 Rem many years ago for use up to buffalo and an ocassional elephant..If I were to kill elephant for a living then I'd opt for a handloaded .458 or probably a slightly downloaded 458 Lott, but if I had to use a 416 Rem or 404 Jefferys it wouldn't bother me at all.

BUT, if the big bores blow your skirt up, and IF you can shoot them accurately, and your young and full of Testosterone, strong and in great phyical conditions, immune to heat and long treks and can pack the gun keeping in mind that the African bearer is on the endangered species list, then by all means they do work, and they work well.

In reality most and I say most of the real big bores are truly closet queens. I have never seen one with less than a as new bore.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
In reality most and I say most of the real big bores are truly closet queens. I have never seen one with less than a as new bore.

I don't know Ray, mine came with me (600OK) and my dad's (585AHR) with him to Zimbabwe on the safari you sent us on with Danny, Paul and Wayne Bartlett. A couple of Cape buffalo fell to them along with a bunch of plains game to "lesser" calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have used the 500 Jefferys, .470 and 500 N.E. on Africas stuff..

My personal conclusion is they are too heavy to pack around all day in 110 plus weather, at least for this somewhat lazy person and that is my only legitamate complaint.

Build them light Ray... My 500 AccRel will not exceed 8 Ibs

mine is barely 8 with scope

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
too heavy to pack around all day in 110 plus weather

then go in august/september!

All you need is a 223.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
mine is barely 8 with scope

I sincerely ask that you start a thread detailing the
characteristics of this 500 AccRel. I mean all the fine points.
Stock material and maker, bbl maker and length, twist
rate trigger, scope, etc. and pictures of the works!!!
I am not kidding; I hope to see it this week!

Having shot El Jeffe's 8lb 500 Accrel I was pleasantly surprised at how great the whole package was. It was handy and lively and not bad to shoot. It truly is a modern interpretation of the 500 Jeffery. If I could have a moderately priced bolt action .510" cart/gun combo it would be his. We just need one of Duane's coffin floor plates

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
All you need is a 223.

for a fireforming bullet!

Call me crazy with the uncertain future of Empire rifles but I like my .505 Empire. Brass and bullets are not a problem and Hornady makes the dies in their custom line. I get 2125 fps with 600 grain bullets and the rifle will shoot 525 grain bullets to original Gibbs velocity. I'm not real big in stature and the round doesn't require a giant action, which makes for a very handy and manageble rifle for me with plenty of stopping power.

All I can comment on is 510 Wells. It's what I went with. Easy to get brass, 460 necked up and shoot. Bullets are fun to find but with the recoil of this gun 20 bullets lasts me a bit. I may never go bigger but if I needed bigger I would look at the 550 Mag and 600 OK. The 600 impresses me the most and looks large to boot.
I wish I had a 505 but brass and bullets would be next to impossible to find.

Ray- your getting too long in the tooth for big bores. You need to pack em up and send em to me for safe keeping. I measure bore life in pounds of powder burned. My .600 ok number 1 is going on 25 pounds about now and the bore still looks good. Now burn that amount of powder through a .223 and it will look kinda cooked.
As for light big bores, you,ll carry it far longer than you'll shoot it. Even Ray could handle 1 stopping round from a .600ok with ol Mbogo hot on his ass. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Ray- your getting too long in the tooth for big bores. You need to pack em up and send em to me for safe keeping. I measure bore life in pounds of powder burned. My .600 ok number 1 is going on 25 pounds about now and the bore still looks good. Now burn that amount of powder through a .223 and it will look kinda cooked.
As for light big bores, you,ll carry it far longer than you'll shoot it. Even Ray could handle 1 stopping round from a .600ok with ol Mbogo hot on his ass. -Rob

You NASTY Man!
LOL

CCMDoc,
How in the world are you doing, didn't know that was you, glad you told me before I made you mad at me!

Ok, all you smart^&%*'s, I may be a bit long in the tooth and my days of the 500s have waned, and my Testosterone has dwindled to zilch but I'm still roping steers 3 times a week and winning money at the Jackpots, I just can't take the recoil in my old brusatic body and lack of bowell control!

But good shooting, bifocals, the 9.3x62 and hunting skill has trampled many a big bore enthusiest into the African sod! Well, maybe not quite, but close is good enough!

I must relate to the masses on this forum that I built myself a walking around 505 Gibbs IMP that weighed 7 lbs. even. I did this based on such remarks as Jeffeoso claim that you carry one a lot and only shoot it once, that made since to me..So off to the range I went and the first shot sheared the scope off and cut my heavy plastic framed sun glasses in have and cut a neat simi circle betwixt me eyes and stars prevailed my visions in the dance of the seven vails...but hey I'm no puss, so I cranked another off with iron sights and from the bench of course..At that point my vision blured, and I had to extract my thumb from my nose. I gently lay my head down on the bench until all my parts started working again, and I had the strength to put the damn thing back in its case..

I traded the gun to a doctor in Fl. for his nice 404 Jefferys with a stern waring to him the recoil was beyond human endurances..to wit he said I can shoot any big bore..It ripped out his retina and he called and reported it..I told him to send it back but he refused saying he was forewarned to my great relief as I was afraid to have the monster in the same house with me at night..

I saw that beautiful gun for sale in Gun Digest from time to time for a couple of years, but not in the last 3 years so I assume it finally killed its owner and is locked up in some bank vault somewhere, I hope so.

Thats good stuff! I guess I have been lucky, of all the big guns and really big guns I have fired over the last 30 years, none of the rifles have ever hurt me. Now one of the really big handguns..... well thats another story complete with a broken wrist.

Ray- when I'm your age, assuming dirt is still around, I'll still be shooting a .600 ok.-Rob

Rob,

Regarding the 600 OK and the 585 caliber round that you created,
in elephant hunting do you think that there could be a situation
where the 585 would be inadequate but the 600 would get the job
done? I suppose I could ask this about the 550 Magnum too. I am
not seeing rounds by you on ammoguide so I am looking around for
drawings.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
CCMDoc,
How in the world are you doing, didn't know that was you, glad you told me before I made you mad at me!

Hey Ray,
I'm doing well - you done good on setting me up with Nengasha Safaris - Paul, Danny and Wayne. Pop and I couldn't have had a better time of it. As I said in the hunt report for that safari, we wound up taking more game than we had planned which meant more money than we had on us at the end. Paul and Danny said "Don't worry, just send it when you get back to the States."

Now on the subject of Bigger Big Bores, I am still waiting for RobGunBuilder to create something bigger. Oh wait, I forgot about the 12GFH. Never mind ...

Stay well,

Paul

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
Rob,

Regarding the 600 OK and the 585 caliber round that you created,
in elephant hunting do you think that there could be a situation
where the 585 would be inadequate but the 600 would get the job
done?

Do you mean to imply that an elephant, Cape buffalo, hippo or duiker would not be able to tell the difference between a .585 and .620 diameter bullet carrying between 9,000 and 10,000 ft-lbs of energy? I mean, c'mon BFJ

There has to be a point when we have reached a caliber
and grain weight bullet, fired at a certain velocity
(say 2400 fps) that an elephant is going to be affected
the same way no matter how much bigger and faster we go
until we start talking about RPG's and the like. I am
guessing it's the .585 cal bullet at 800 grains or so.
But cartridge creators and testers like Rob, michael458,
srose, RIP and hubel458 don't guess. They prove things
out one way or the other. I like soaking up the data they
put forth. Come to think of it, I REALLY LIKE SOAKING
THAT STUFF UP!

Hey BigFiveJack,

My comment was just kidding around but since you make some interesting points ...

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
There has to be a point when we have reached a caliber and grain weight bullet, fired at a certain velocity (say 2400 fps) that an elephant is going to be affected the same way no matter how much bigger and faster we go

Why would you think that?

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
I am guessing it's the .585 cal bullet at 800 grains or so.

Again, why? Why that caliber and that bullet weight? The very people you mention as well as others like srose and Michael458 have already demonstrated some long held beliefs are just not so, such as "600NE doesn't penetrate as well as the 577NE".

Perhaps there is a point of diminishing gains but I'm not aware that it has been identified. Would like to see Michael458 test some CEB #13 out of the 12GFH

It keeps mudding up my mind, in that the first animal ever shot with the 700 N.E. with a brain (head) shot escaped never to be seen again..I'm not sure but I believe the hunter was killed instantly by recoil..He should have turned the gun around!

Paul, save up your bucks, I have some good elephants with Paul and Pop branded on their hip. That new concession they have is swarming with some nice stuff.

quote:

Perhaps there is a point of diminishing gains but I'm not aware that it has been identified. Would like to see Michael458 test some CEB #13 out of the 12GFH

I've been rooting for this.
900 grains or 1.5 Oz. Copper BBW #113 maybe slight hollow base to give at least a 50/50 weight ratio for perfect balance in the middle and three bands tops.

Just My opinion and I dont know skat.

If you want a light Stopping rifle that does not kick overly hard there is only one cartridge.
The 550 Express
Standard length action for reduced weight. It likes a shorter barrel, once again, reduced weight. It gets the most out of the powder charge of all the big bores over 50 cal.
A 55 cal 700 grain bullet at around 2100 is not a wimp.
It is a masterful wildcat. In my opinion.

Cheers, John

To CCM DOC,

No offence taken, I know you're not mean spirited at all.
And as far as my .585" diameter and 800 grainer goes, It's
just me "taking a poke" at things. It just seems like it's
alot of diameter and alot of bullet weight at an excellent
velocity (2400 fps) translating to MUCHO energy entering the
elephant. So if we could fire at the same elephant, while
standing at the same exact spot, and hit the elephant in the
same location, with the same exact bullet (say the CEB BBW
#13) and everything else is the same EXCEPT bullet diameter
and weight, and we started at .585 and 800 grains and also had
620 diam. and 900 grains, then .700 diam. and 100 grains and
then a 10 bore, then 8 bore then and then and then... I guess
once we got up to hitting the poor creature with a six inch
diameter ten pound bullet we would maybe see a different end
result from hitting it with the .585 800 grainer; but maybe I
am totally, dead wrong here, I don't know! Oh well..........