Need some help in choosing which guns to take on safari? I’m off to Tanzania in 07 with Pierre Von Tonder for a full bag 24 day hunt. I know the usual is to take two rifles but I can’t seem to weed it down that much thus some help form the forum please.

(George, I’m sorry if this is in the wrong place, I thought about the African forum but some there won’t get the desire to take some of these monsters. Besides this is where I hang out most of the time)

I certainly don’t have a small number to choose from. It would be easier if I had only 2 suitable guns but I don’t.

What I’ve got to choose from (at least the ones I’m considering) are.

340 wby (my go to gun for NA game and would do well on plains game and leopard.)
375 H&H a classic
416 Rigby
458 Lott
45-70 (sorry, I simply had to add this one)
470 Mbogo
470 Capstick
500 A2
600 OK
To complicate things I’ve got a switch barrel on a GMA action I’m just about finished with. This has barrels in 550 Mag, 500 A2, 475 A&M, 460 Wby, 416 Wby, 378 Wby, 358-378 Wby, 338-378 Wby, 30-378 Wby, and 7mm – 378 Wby. The 7mm is out, it is simply too fast and was just a goof that I made one. I had a reamer available so what the heck.

I also have a switch barrel on the 375 H&H case. I have barrels in 470 Capstick, 458 Lott, 416 Rem, 375 H&H, 358 STA, 340 Wby, 300 Wby, 7mm STW, 6.5 mm STW and .257 STW. This is also an option but not something I’ve really considered too much.

I guess that if I can legally take a switch barrel and have the extra barrels not count as rifles then that might be the way to go.

Take along the 600 OK (I really want to try this one out on DG) one action with two barrels, one in 338-378 Wby or 358-378 Wby and the other in 475 A&M, 500A2 or 550 Mag, or a 470 Capstick and a 340 Wby or 375 H&H.

I will be concentrating on the big 4 and hippo; however there will be a number of PG shot as well for baits and trophies. This is why I am leaning to having a heavy battery rather than a lighter one

Ammo is another consideration. With the 11 lb weight limit I’m a bit concerned about running out of ammo while there. It appears that some fellow formites will be in camp as well and I will also think about what they are bringing along and trying to have similar guns so we can share ammo in a pinch. I know a 550 mag and a 458 Lott will be in camp. The others are as yet unknown. I think if I leave out the 600 OK it gets a bit easier but this cartridge need to go to Africa.

I keep coming back to the 375H&H for backup. I think I could find ammo if I had to and it will kill anything if I do my part.

Please offer up anything you can think of. I’ve got a lot of time until 07 and will probably change my mind several times until then but it would me good to know others thinking on this.

Thanks, Fritz

My vote is for the 375 and the Lott. Since locating replacement ammo is an issue the Lott will shoot 458 Win. I don't think I've ever been in a camp in Africa that did not have a 375 present. I'm going to Tanzania next year and my two guns are a 375 and 416 Rigby. I have a Lott but the 416s have always been plenty big enough and I like the flatter trajectory of the 350 grain softs I use. Also, elephant is not in next years hunt for me thus the 416 over the Lott.

You said Full Bag so I would say 375 H&H, and the Lott. 24 days I mighy take 2 of the same Cal. to help ammo. say 2 375's or 2 416's.
You would have 11 lbs of same cal.

fritz454

I agree with LJS on the 375 H&H and 458 Lott. The 375 will handle everything in todays hunting situations as You will be with a PH for back up. The 375 only becomes marginal with DG game that has been wounded and the shooting is up close and personal. As stated by LJS, with the 48 Lott, you can always use 458 Winchester ammo. 375 H&H, 458 Winchester is everywhere in Africa and 458 Lott is becoming more and more popular.

Mauser Rifle

NRA Life Member
ATA Life Member

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

You'll proably be sorry if you don't take some of your unusual big boomers. I vote 600 OK for elephant, buffalo, and hippo, and then either the 375 or the switch barrel with the 550 and 378 if you can take an extra barrel. Otherwise, whichever of the others you are most comfortable with for plains game or cats.

.416 Rigby & .500 A2....load the Rigby with 340 gr woodleigh protected points for plans game and the .500 A2 with 570 gr woodleigh's for big stuff.

If I had your guns thats the way I would go

My choice for a one rifle Safari to Tanzania would be the classic 375H&H, but for a big Tanz safari it would be a 7mm or 300 for the light game and the 416RIG for the large game.
My own set for Zim this year is a 9.3x62 and a 470NE, as in Zimbabwe most shots are taken relatively close.
I'm planing a trip to northern MASAILAND in a year or two and want to hunt the Gazelle's, Impala and Buff, will take 7mm and 470NE.
Good hunting,
Adam C

340 and 416 (or the Lott) would make a nice combo. 24 days of mixed-bag hunting is a lot of plains game shooting, so ammo weight IS a consideration.

I don't think you could carry an adequate amount of 375 plus big boomer ammo and keep the weight under 11 lbs.

The beauty of the 340 is that is makes a dandy plainsgame cartridge and is adequate on everything short of elephant. If it's your "go-to rifle", I'd take it.

600 ok has to go! My kids are burning up my hunt money on school so mine wont go for at least a while. I hope to pop a whitetail with it just to "blood" her. I was hoping Rob would drop a jumbo with his but haveing a double would most likely make anyone leave a bolt gun at home.
Dean

Ssshhhhhhh ... what a problem!

What game mix are you looking for? If heavy on the plains game, I'd be sure to include the .375 H&H or the .416 Rigby. With the Rigby I take some 350 gr loads to get the flatness of trajectory that longer shots might require.

The Lott is a good choice for DG. If it is a very dependable rifle I probably would not worry about a backup for it, but would take something better for plains game (like the .375 H&H).

The real heavies come into their own if El is in your list of trophies as well as Buf.

Ammo weight and local availability is an issue with the big calibers. Split it across the luggage of you and your wife and you can probably get away with a little more than 5 kg. Ten kgs is probably pushing the issue a bit much though.

The safe route from the ammo availability point of view is probably the .375 and the Lott. Worth having the Lott bbl engraved with both .458 Winchester and .458 Lott caliber designations to avoid import problems.

I have a problem that is not as severe are is yours. My battery is a 9,3x74R double, a 9,3x62 bolt, a .375 H&H bolt, a .416 Rigby bolt, and a .470 NE double.

Last plains game I took the 9,3x62 bolt and the .416 Rigby bolt. These choices worked very, very well in the field. I think for the next hunt I'll take the two doubles for plains game and Buf.

Make a choice, shoot some, and have a ball! We all envy you the problem

John,

I would take the 600 if you like and shoot it smoothly...
Taking the 375 you have your second DG rifle and backup and plains game...Your tracker can carry it as a second with a scope while you carry the 600 with open sights....

Mike

John,

Just book two more safaris for 2008 & 2009 and be done with it.

Hi John
Take a 375 and the 470 Mbogo. That combo will do anything and I'm not bias
Take good care
See you in Texas
Dave

I agree with ForrestB, 340Wby and 375H&H or 458Lott. Eleven pounds of ammo is not very many rounds, when you are looking at this class, much less, the bigger stuff. They are also going to inclued the weight of the boxes too, and it adds up real quick. As for the really big bores, another trip just for buff would be in order. Then it is one rifle and one type ammo.

See you in November.

Hog Killer

FRITZ, what you need is 24 safaris, not a 24 day safari!

Take your pick of big bad stoppers, and a back up rifle that will also be legal for the big boys if your heavy rifle breaks, and be done with it! The switch barrels will not allow you more ammo, the airlines make that "restricted articals" ruling, but the officials in Tanzania make the ruling on how many rifles you take, and how much ammo per rifle you bring into the country, but it still has to be within the weight limit imposed by the IOTA airline ruling.

The switch barrels, with two barrels will be considered two rifles, and the weight limit does not go up no matte how many rifles you take! I'd take about 40-60 rds of ammo for my heavy,and use the rest of the weight limit for the plains game rifle! If I'm not mistaken you are limited to 100 rds of ammo total by Tanzania, but that might be PER RIFLE! In any event it can't weigh more that 11 lbs.

Anyway, good luck on your hunt with Pierre, and tell him hello for me, and ask him why he didn't let the lions get the Judge!

I will be hunting, mostly buff, lion, and leopard. Hippo is on the menu for baits for the cats. I will be shooting PG only for baits unless something exceptional comes along. Elephant is possible but I look at it as a bonus. If we come across a shooter I will take it but I figure it is better to take another hunt specifically for elephant. Simply from a time perspective.

Most seem to suggest the 375 H&H and the 458 Lott and you are all right it is the smart choice BUT I'm just not that smart or practical. I will for certain be taking at least one of my insane bores with me. I did find out that TZ does not count the extra barrels as guns only RSA does. I will, of course, get a letter or something to that effect from the TZ authorities and avoid flying thru RSA there and back so the switch barrels can come into play.

A bit of math and I realize that it is only 5 rounds of 600 OK to make up 1 pound. This is simply too impractical to consider for this hunt. I'll take it along for an Elephant only hunt the following year. So let’s remove the 600 from consideration.

For arguments sake the 378 based cases yield between 10 rnd/lb to 13 rnd/lb depending on caliber. This would give me 110-143 cases. I can be happy with this. So, what about a 550 Mag with an extra barrel in 378 wby and a 470 Mbogo. Take 45 rounds of each. All solids except for the 378 which will have 25 softs and 20 solids. Remember there will be another 550 mag in camp so in a pinch I can share with RNS.

I kind of like the above but am thinking about the M70 I have with barrels in 458 lott and 375 H&H. What about that along with just the 550 mag. Actually that may be better yet. I could switch out the 458 Lott barrel for a 470 Capstick for a bit more punch. I can see I will not have this decided until the plane takes off and even then I'll be wishing I did something different. Oh well, this is the fun before the hunt.

This is supposed to be a fun exercise so please don't take anything too seriously.

Dave, 470 Mbogo? I would never have suspected. Since I'm driving to TX for the hunt I will be bringing along most of these so you'll get an up close look at them.

Since I am going into semi retirement in 07 I will have time to hunt Africa more and give my other babies a chance to draw blood later. This is my kick off hunt and I wanted to really spend a good amount of time and relax doing what I love.

I guess if I could ask all of you to be a bit on the less practical side of things with your suggestions that would be great. I do appreciate your practical answers but I have to be honest and I know I won't be that practical when it comes to it.

Again, Thanks and keep it coming. John

I suggest taking the 600 Overkill with 10 rounds, and a .375 H&H with as many rounds as you can fit in the ammo allowance. 10 rounds of .600 OK should be enough for you to kill the elephant and 3 buffalo. There should even be a few rounds left for the trackers to try out the .600. Everything else from lion on down can be handled quite easily with the .375 H&H.

As for the weight of the .600 OK on a stalk, just have a tracker carry it. But let him know there will be an extra reward for him due to this extra effort.

It's a shame to have a really big gun and leave it home...

John,

When I was in your shoes, I took three rifles. A 7mm Rem. Mag., a .375 H&H Mag. and a .458 Lott. It is just flat out FUN to have three rifles to play with.

But this year, with a more limited focus, I'm taking a .500 A-Square and a .416 Rigby. The .500 for elephant, buffalo and maybe hippo, if I can get one on license and find one on land, and the .416 as a back up and for everything else.

If I were you, given your options, I'd take the .340 Wby., the .416 Rigby and the .500 A-Square.

John,
heh

stand up on your backfeet and take
470 mbogo at 2500 fps
550 magnum at 2250

I know you, and you can carry both of these all day for 26 days, leaving trackers and scouts panting!!!

Just make certain you go early in the season, so it's still relatively cool


yeah, i have a mental condition to think of Dave's most practical big bore/plains game/stopping rifle as your medium, but, in this crowd!!!
jeffe

It's amazing how little ammo it takes to get to the 11 pound weight limit. One suggestion I have to help you w/ your decision is to weigh your hunting loads to see how many rounds there are in a pound.

My wife and I did a 21 day hunt (full bag plus my wife had a 10 day license) in Tanzania last year we took a 375H&H and 416 Rigby. We took 22 pounds of ammo between us & I wasn't sure if that was going to be enough when we left.

The thing about hunting over there is you will be hunting multiple different animals in the same day, so I would leave the switch barrel gun at home.

24 days is a lot of potential shooting and cat hunting requires lots of bait.

Most of your shots will be between 100 to 200 yards. As I understand it (was told) the shot distances tend to be a little longer on average in the Selous than in Zim. (maybe someone else on this board can confirm or dispute this).

So weigh that ammo (rounds per pound) and see which combinations will get you where you don't run out of bullets before day 24.

Edit: fritz454 - I just read your second post - looks like you are already weighing your ammo, so you are already considering that important factor.

This is half of the fun of the hunt "planning" --Good luck!

I would take the .500 A Square and .375 H&H OR
one of the .470's and .375. You just can't leave the .375 H&H home while you hunt in Africa. I think there are laws against it.

Here is another twist, I just finished up "fixing" two CZs. One in 404 Jeff and the other in 505 Gibbs. This gets worse everyting I think about it.

It's obvious you need to go on multiple hunts to use all those rifles.

quote:

45-70 (sorry, I simply had to add this one)

the 45-70 should handle it all

i can almost hear the panties bunching up...

actualy i suggest the mbogo and the 340 wby from the ones you let us pick from. you have 50 different combinations that will work. thanks for making me jealous with your large selection of guns have a great time and be sure to tell as good a story as the judge

John,
If you take the .375 H&H, and 416 Rem, and the 458 Lott and their will be some extra ammo in camp...if that helps.

Fritz,

Given your battery, I would have to have the 7mm/378 on trip.

You are obvioulsy an experimenter so I reckon the 7mm/378 needs to go as one of the guns. It might be the only 7mm/378 that has been to Africa.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
Here is another twist, I just finished up "fixing" two CZs. One in 404 Jeff and the other in 505 Gibbs. This gets worse everyting I think about it.

Let me help with that.. just send the 505 to me!!!

jeffe

.Sorry Jeff, but I just couldn't do that. You can shoot it in November thou.

Yea guys, I know this is a terriable problem to have so I'm not looking for any sympathy. I will be doing a safari a year after 07. I need to do a ranch hunt in RSA for PG only. I was there once but only for 3 days and I know I need to go back. That will be in 08 for certain. Retirement is a wonderful thing.

Okay, here is where I stand for now.

12 rounds of 600 Ok is 2.5 lbs
30 rounds of 550 mag is 4.3 lbs
43 rounds of 378 wby is 4.2 lbs
11.0 lbs total. 85 rounds total.

Do you think 85 rounds are enough for a 24 day safari? I would prefer to be around 100 rounds total but this may well be enough. Not bragging but I've never shot more that twice at any one critter but Africa is Africa and I think Murphy has set up camp.

Other option is
12 rounds of 600 Ok 2.5 lbs.
38 rounds of 416 rem 4.0 lbs
50 rounds of 375 H&H 4.5 lbs
11 Lbs total and an even 100 rounds

The 600 to be used for Elephant, Buffalo (3) Worst case 3 rounds each
550 for Hippo, Lion and anything else close in. (Open sights)
Finally, the 378 (the only scoped rife for all else, spots, and various PG.

Other option, same for the 600 OK
The 416 and 375 are interchangeable for all else and both will be topped with scopes.

I will be taking along extra scopes for each rifle in Talley mounts just in case.

In first option I will carry the 600 Ok and have a tracker tote the 378 with scope in case of a long shot.

For the other option it will be the same set up except the tracker can carry either the 375 or 416. Out to 300 yards the 416 is just as shootable as the 375 and packs more punch.

I don't have any problem toting a 14 lb rifle all day so the weight is fine.

By the way Ray, does Pierre have a rifle to borrow should it all go to crap? I would think he does but better to ask.

Thanks all, Sorry if this is booring anyone to death I'm simply excited and this is part of the fun of it. Besides, thanks to Saeed I get to share some of my excitement with my cyber friends.

John

I had the same problem. Of your choices I would go with the .340 Weatherby because it’s the one you are most familiar with. And for a “heavy†rifle go with the .416 Rigby. It will handle anything else you are likely to need it for. Lawdog

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
Okay, here is where I stand for now.

12 rounds of 600 Ok is 2.5 lbs
30 rounds of 550 mag is 4.3 lbs
43 rounds of 378 wby is 4.2 lbs
11.0 lbs total. 85 rounds total...

The 600 to be used for Elephant, Buffalo (3) Worst case 3 rounds each
550 for Hippo, Lion and anything else close in. (Open sights)
Finally, the 378 (the only scoped rife for all else, spots, and various PG.

In first option I will carry the 600 Ok and have a tracker tote the 378 with scope in case of a long shot....

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
I vote 600 OK for elephant, buffalo, and hippo, and then either the 375 or the switch barrel with the 550 and 378 if you can take an extra barrel.

My vote stays as it was before -- option one.

Yeah, I like the 600 Ok and 550 Mag plus a barrel in 378 wby and as long as I can shoot I should have enough ammo to do all the harvensting I want.

I do think the other battery, the 600 Ok, a 416 rem and a 375 H&H is the smarter choice but what is the fun in that. Almost everyone hunts africa with a 375 H&H and/or a 416 Rem.

I've got to be different.

Do you feel that 85 rounds of ammo is sufficent?

John,

My preference would be a .375H&H and .470 Capstick; of course, that's exactly what I took to Tanzania myself.

However, a purely objective opinion would be a .375H&H and the .470 Mbogo.

You need a backup rifle that is legal for DG in case your 'heavy' rifle has a serious malfunction. The .375H&H fits that bill, especially with Bridger solids. The .375H&H is also a superb cartridge for plains game, as well as lion and leopard.

If you don't mind bringing two 'heavies', then the .416 Rigby and the .470 Mbogo get my vote. The Rigby has good 'reach', so necessary when shooting at distant antelope.

The .550 and .600OK should flatten an elephant, buff, or hippo, but the weight of the rifles and an 11lb. ammunition limitation, weigh against them.

George

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
Do you feel that 85 rounds of ammo is sufficent?

I am not experienced enough to say for sure, but in your favor is that there will be another 550 in camp (plus other big guns should you need a loaner).

I really want a report on the 600 OK on game.

George I could actually take along both a 470 Capstick and a 375 H&H as I have a switch barrel rifle with those barrels. I could then take the 600 OK to put it to the test on some really big stuff.

I've ruled out anything under 375 cal. Since DG is my priority it makes no sense to take anything that is not legal for that purpose.

I really like my 340 but it was over the pond once already and took 4 animals in 4 shots. About what I expect from it but it doesn't make the caliber mins and there is really nothing the 375 can't do that the 340 will. A bit more range perhaps but I'm not shooting long distance anymore. I used to but that was a long time ago. Except Bench rest.

Every time I think about dropping the 600 I come to realize that it needs to go over if only for Elephant. It will put the lights out on anything that walks and although not much of a test it has taken 2 deer in Montana. Knocked them right over.

How about a 600 and a switch barrel with a 470 Capstick and 375 H&H barrel?

This gets worse every time I think about it. Got to love it though.

I think it is the 600 for certain and then either switch barrel. Either the one on 378 basic brass or the one on 375 H&H brass. I know either will do the job but I'm as much a gun nut as a hunter. I guess that's what is making this tough.

I do have time to put together a switch barrel on the 416 Rigby case (I have one in planning). So a 416 Rigby and a 470 Mbogo with the 600 OK.

I also have barrels for a 458-600, 474-600, 510-600 and 550-600 to add more confusion to the mix.

Charles, A full report will follow. I'm going to keep a journal and will post in it's entirity when i get back.

I'll be in TX in Nov with 600 in tow. If I have to get near Dallas I'll give you a shout. YOu're more than welcome to shoot it if you dare.

John

John,
Read my previous post we have ammo and guns you can use..A 375 and a 416 and even have a 375 and 505 loaded with Bridger flat nose bullets unless Pierre has shot'em up, but he was hording them last I heard....Just leave him enough to get through the season with!

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
Charles, A full report will follow. I'm going to keep a journal and will post in it's entirity when i get back.

I'll be in TX in Nov with 600 in tow. If I have to get near Dallas I'll give you a shout. YOu're more than welcome to shoot it if you dare.

John

Very tempting (never shot anything with measurable torque before ). We should try to get Wendell Reich to sponsor a North Texas Big Bore shoot for the occasion (I can say that since he is on his way to Tanzania and cannot comment.).

In any event, I look forward to the full report and I hope your visit to Texas goes well even if it doesn't bring you to the Dallas area.

Ray, If you have a client going over this year to Pierre let me know. I'll get you a hundred or so for him to take over. Least I can do. Regardless. I'll have some for him in Dallas at the show when we all meet up.

I get over to ID every so often and if it works for you I can meet up with you then and give you some solids for Pierre. Let me know.

John

Charles, I'll be down with most of my big bores so if you want to try to get this together I'm all for it.

I'll be in the Houston area but will be driving to Yuma and then onto Montana. That should get me close to Dallas. It would be late on a Sunday, I think the 12 or there abouts.

John