quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

My favorite 9mm quote:

"9mm? If I want to get someone angry, I'll just insult them ..."

Regards,

Chuck

I like that.... Some of these same sort of discussions run around handgun circles, I am not much of a 9 fan, much prefer 45 of course, but thing is
I never see anyone willing to go downrange and catch a few 9s??? HEH......

quote:

2 For Michael - B&M bolt Winchester action with CEB bullet - in any caliber above .400. Barrel MUST be 18". Any longer and velocity actually drops!

HEH.... Naki, pretty good..... I think however lets change up on the .400.. lets start that dance at .458 and go up.. And you can add some North Forks to that too..... The new Nose Profile of the solids is superb to say the least....


Reading comprehension is still a major issue here......

I said;

quote:

I actually had a Round Nose FMJ----9mm FMJ round nose bullets [QUOTE]


THEY SAID;

[QUOTE] Copper washed lead bullets are not RN solids, btw.

And then they said;

quote:

perhaps what Michael was shooting was steel jacketed

I know the difference in "copper washed" and FMJ.... and "Steel Jacketed"... No, I never said I was shooting steel jacketed 9mm...
Fact is, a copper washed lead would have smashed itself into pieces against steel targets... Steel plates.... Pieces might have returned to shooter as they often do, but not the whole bullet... Shooting steel targets with Copper FMJ handgun rounds.... Not "Steel Jacketed Bullets"

quote:

Christ, timing the responses to your posts? Get a life dude.

Yeah right, sitting there with a stop watch just waiting......


You know, that the date and time is posted on each post don't you?? Something like this......

quote:

posted Feb 23, 2014 11:21 PM

Ya'll have fun, this has run its course........... I am outta here, on to better things................

Free 500grains

quote:

don't forget the 416 B&M---

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Maybe you share your friend Rich's affinity for Scotch?

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
In many years(ages really) many have search for the ideal DG cartridge. Many criterias can mention as far as caliber, bulletweight, energy and abillity in stoppingpower.
Some cartridges may have the energy like .378WEa, but lacks the caliber and bulletweight. Some cartridges may have caliber like a .50 S&W but lacks energy and bulletweight. etc etc.
When I am thinking of the ideal cartridge I think of "5"!. As I see it the ideal cartridge should meet these criterias to fulfill what a minimum DG cartridge should have:
1) 5000 ft/ibs.
2) .500cal.
3) 500grain.

Give me you thoughts.

quote:

And as for your buddy 465H&H , to him I say that if you are quoting a post of mine in the manner you have then I will continue to construe your comments as personal and directed at me.

quote:

And OK, it wasn't a copper washed lead bullet, and it wasn't a copper washed, steel jacketed bullet, but yet it was a FMJ. So, what was the bullet construction? All NATO rounds are copper washed steel jacketed, ball ammo, which isn't steel jacketed, is often erroneously referred to as FMJ, a copper or guilding metal bullet with lead core isn't a FMJ... Running out of options.

Jim
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

And OK, it wasn't a copper washed lead bullet, and it wasn't a copper washed, steel jacketed bullet, but yet it was a FMJ. So, what was the bullet construction? All NATO rounds are copper washed steel jacketed, ball ammo, which isn't steel jacketed, is often erroneously referred to as FMJ, a copper or guilding metal bullet with lead core isn't a FMJ... Running out of options.

Interesting comments. As piss poor as Wikipedia is, at least it acknowledges the common usage of 'full metal jacket' going back to its Swiss Army invention 1882 and French army adoption in 1886. Excerpted, "A Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) is a bullet consisting of a soft core (usually made of lead) encased in a shell of harder metal, such as gilding metal, cupronickel or less commonly a steel alloy. This shell can extend all around the bullet (alternatively termed a total metal jacket round) or, more often, just around the front and sides with rear lead part left eased."

I don't believe a 'copper washed lead' bullet would qualify a a FMJ bullet - at least according to the Hague Convention requirements - as copper washed lead bullets easily obliterate.

If I recollect correctly, the use of bismuth for lead and steel and cupronickel for gilding metal was brought about by military use solely due to scarcity of lead and/or materials for gilding metal.

Again recollection, it wasn't until about WWI that copper plated steel jackets began use for African DG FMJ bullet construction and closer to WWII, or afterwards, before it became commonplace in DG FMJ bullet construction.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

And OK, it wasn't a copper washed lead bullet, and it wasn't a copper washed, steel jacketed bullet, but yet it was a FMJ. So, what was the bullet construction? All NATO rounds are copper washed steel jacketed, ball ammo, which isn't steel jacketed, is often erroneously referred to as FMJ, a copper or guilding metal bullet with lead core isn't a FMJ... Running out of options.

Interesting comments. As piss poor as Wikipedia is, at least it acknowledges the common usage of 'full metal jacket' going back to its Swiss Army invention 1882 and French army adoption in 1886. Excerpted, "A Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) is a bullet consisting of a soft core (usually made of lead) encased in a shell of harder metal, such as gilding metal, cupronickel or less commonly a steel alloy. This shell can extend all around the bullet (alternatively termed a total metal jacket round) or, more often, just around the front and sides with rear lead part left eased."

I don't believe a 'copper washed lead' bullet would qualify a a FMJ bullet - at least according to the Hague Convention requirements - as copper washed lead bullets easily obliterate.

If I recollect correctly, the use of bismuth for lead and steel and cupronickel for gilding metal was brought about by military use solely due to scarcity of lead and/or materials for gilding metal.

Again recollection, it wasn't until about WWI that copper plated steel jackets began use for African DG FMJ bullet construction and closer to WWII, or afterwards, before it became commonplace in DG FMJ bullet construction.

If I remember correctly, jacketed military bullets were in common use well before WW1 and even before the turn of the centuary. Calibers such as the 6.5 MS, 7mm Mauser and 8mm Mauser among others had metal jacketed bullets in the late 1800s.

465H&H

Jim
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

And OK, it wasn't a copper washed lead bullet, and it wasn't a copper washed, steel jacketed bullet, but yet it was a FMJ. So, what was the bullet construction? All NATO rounds are copper washed steel jacketed, ball ammo, which isn't steel jacketed, is often erroneously referred to as FMJ, a copper or guilding metal bullet with lead core isn't a FMJ... Running out of options.

Interesting comments. As piss poor as Wikipedia is, at least it acknowledges the common usage of 'full metal jacket' going back to its Swiss Army invention 1882 and French army adoption in 1886. Excerpted, "A Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) is a bullet consisting of a soft core (usually made of lead) encased in a shell of harder metal, such as gilding metal, cupronickel or less commonly a steel alloy. This shell can extend all around the bullet (alternatively termed a total metal jacket round) or, more often, just around the front and sides with rear lead part left eased."

I don't believe a 'copper washed lead' bullet would qualify a a FMJ bullet - at least according to the Hague Convention requirements - as copper washed lead bullets easily obliterate.

If I recollect correctly, the use of bismuth for lead and steel and cupronickel for gilding metal was brought about by military use solely due to scarcity of lead and/or materials for gilding metal.

Again recollection, it wasn't until about WWI that copper plated steel jackets began use for African DG FMJ bullet construction and closer to WWII, or afterwards, before it became commonplace in DG FMJ bullet construction.

If I remember correctly, jacketed military bullets were in common use well before WW1 and even before the turn of the centuary. Calibers such as the 6.5 MS, 7mm Mauser and 8mm Mauser among others had metal jacketed bullets in the late 1800s.

465H&H

H,

Commencing 1886 FMJ bullets became commonplace in military rifle cartridges as various countries sought to catch up with the French. And use of FMJ bullets became a requirement amongst the signatories of the 1899 Hague Convention.

My issue is the inference that a steel or coated steel jacket enclosing a lead or bismuth core is a requirement for bullet to be termed a 'FMJ bullet'. The Hague Convention only required a non-expanding metal jacketed bullet be used against the human combatants of opposing military armies. I believe that gilding metal or cupronickel comprised the predominate metal used to form the metal jackets of these FMJ bullets at the end-of-19th century/turn of 20th century for use against human army personal from rifles and handguns.

I do not dispute that clad-steel jacketed FMJ bullets were used by military forces but that it was principally driven by that nations economic needs if used against human targets rather than a military need such as against fortifications.

quote:

I agree with you 100%! You said what I was trying to say, only you did a much better job of it.

Jim
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
Like Jens I find that .50 caliber bullets represent a decided improvement over .458 caliber bullets at the same velocity, and most of my thick skinned dangerous game was killed with my .505.