Just FYI.

The .416 Ruger on Hornady's web site:
http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=790

Product Spec Sheet (pdf file)
http://www.hornady.com/images/sell_sheets/09-dangerous_game.pdf

Cheers!
-Bob F.

And there it is! All official!

They list the .450 NE, the .404 Jeffery and the .470 NE and the .500 NE.

God Bless Hornady!

Didn't someone say that that 416 Ruger would never happen? Oops!

It took them long enough.....

I think they got sidetracked with their RCM rounds....too bad...

This reminds me - does anybody know the meaning of the headstamp on the Ruger 416 Commemorative cartridge?

BELL
16-97
416 RUGER

Ray

Man, too bad I'm not in the market for a 416ish round....Chris Sells got all my money...well not ALL of it...when I bought a 404 Jeff. But the 416 Ruger is a welcome addition to the family. Makes a true DG round affordable for everyone. Now if the economy would allow folks to book those safaris.....!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

The Ruger bolt action 458 Lott has nearly 6000ftlbs of energy with the recoil of a 300wm.Plus,you get to shoot a 500gr bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
This reminds me - does anybody know the meaning of the headstamp on the Ruger 416 Commemorative cartridge?

BELL
16-97
416 RUGER

Ray

Read here:

http://www.ammo-one.com/416Ruger.html



It was a limited run of only 200 pieces of brass for a .416 Rigby with what I guess-timate is a 30-degree shoulder instead of 45-degree.
Just catting around to give Bill Ruger a special No.1 chambered for his own .416 Rigby wildcat: Wow! That would have really perfected the .416 Rigby!

It was presented on Bill Ruger's 75th birthday, 6-21-91. 1991 was the year that should have been on the headstamp, I guess:

19-(primer)-91

not

16-(primer)-97

I guess it was a careless screwup of "1991" to 1697.

The first 9 got turned upside-down, and the 7 got substituted for the 1 on the end. Pretty close for a presbyopic without his reading glasses. Wonder if Bill Ruger ever noticed?

I guess Mr. Bell's bunter maker did not have his glasses on that day, and neither did Mr. Bell, when he stamped the brass.

Bell: "Oh $#!T! And it is a rush job for Bill Ruger's birthday party next week! Ahh what the #@&%, this will make it a collector's item for sure!"

And so it was delivered and they all had a good laugh?

My guess.

.416 Ruger by Hornady is a sweetie.
The new .416 Ruger brass has a 30-degree shoulder too, I guess, as well as typographically correct headstamp?

RIP

Great story but I find it hard to believe. Any documentation?

ray

Cheechako,
I was once a Cheechako, until I attained full Sourdough status, and the usual capacity for confabulation that accompanies that rank.

What do you not understand about my use of the word "guess," hmm?

Now, I turn it over to anyone else with any documentation of any sort about the defunct .416 Ruger as well as the newborn darling, the Hornady .416 Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Cheechako,
I was once a Cheechako, until I attained full Sourdough status, and the usual capacity for confabulation that accompanies that rank.

What do you not understand about my use of the word "guess," hmm?

Now, I turn it over to anyone else with any documentation of any sort about the defunct .416 Ruger as well as the newborn darling, the Hornady .416 Ruger.

Apparently he wants to know if "your guess was documented"

My "guess" has now been officially documented right here. If he needs a hard copy it can be printed from this thread. I bet sumbuddy who don't know has guessed the same thing before.

I'll let y'all know when them thar .416 Rugers show up in the racks in Kentucky. Better get one of those for deer and squirrel and such.
Y'all do the same.

Now where are the naysayers that think it won't do anything that hasn't already been done?

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Didn't someone say that that 416 Ruger would never happen? Oops!

Rusty:

I confess that I was one of the doubters but not because I didn't think it was possible but because I didn't think Ruger had an appropriate platform for the cartridge and I still don't. The Ruger Hawkeye weighs in at 7.75 pounds. That's far to light for a .416 pushing a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps. However, for those guys who want one, I say have at it. I think the low pressure .416 Rigby is maybe the best magazine cartridge ever.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I confess that I was one of the doubters but not because I didn't think it was possible but because I didn't think Ruger had an appropriate platform for the cartridge and I still don't. The Ruger Hawkeye weighs in at 7.75 pounds. That's far to light for a .416 pushing a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps. However, for those guys who want one, I say have at it. I think the low pressure .416 Rigby is maybe the best magazine cartridge ever.
Dave

Ditto's Dave,
Hope they see the need to beef-up the stock and add a pound or two for this caliber to be a great addition to the 375.

RIP

I'm well known for my dry sense of humor and strategically timed quips but I have to admit that I didn't see yours coming. You got me. I guess it was the detail and length of your SWAG that fooled me. But I have no way of documenting my guess either. And I'll bet that no one has made that particular guess before, or will again.

Now, does anyone know what that headstamp meant?

Really. Seriously. I guess.

It would be interesting to know the shoulder angle and the shoulder diameter.

Let the 416 ruger be the newest hated cart!!!!

I guess the Hornady .416 Ruger shoulder angle (30 degrees) and shoulder diameter (.5150") are exactly the same as the .375 Ruger. Neck it up and the neck gets a little longer with no change in the shoulder at all.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:.

I'll let y'all know when them thar .416 Rugers show up in the racks in Kentucky. Better get one of those for deer and squirrel and such.
Y'all do the same. -------------------------------
Thats a big 10-4 there good buddy !!!!!Mayby a Moose too ..-------------------------------------
Now where are the naysayers that think it won't do anything that hasn't already been done?

.,.,

Doubt less they will have all manner of foolishness to carry on about ....
An all grown up Taylor , How Nice . I hope they use a 2nd recoil lug under the barrel ..

thanks Rip .. the 416 ruger, which was a modified rigby, is pretty plain when one takes the known diameter of the .416 bullet, and see that the base is closer to 1.5X the bullet diameter.

the ruger case, .532 base, no belt, is a (commericall) new and original and recent design,.

I think the 416 ruger is a great idea I could have only hoped it would have been on the marget 5 years ago when I had my 416 taylor built.

Not that the taylor is a bad round but as a wildcat you have all the normal wildcat ammo trouble not being able to walk in a store and buy them. I reload 99% of all my ammo but if one really needs a box beable to go and buy one would be nice.

This is great to see. We all knew it was coming (who else?), and I think it's going to be a runaway success because of the power and ability to fit into essentially any action you can find.

The only problem I see, and Ruger continues to do this, is the "short-light" rifle design. I'll take a 7.5lb, 20" bbl 308 any day of the week, but why would I want something along the lines of a 300 Win or worse, a 416 Remington?! That's gotta be just obnoixious to shoot - from both ends!

I spoke to a sales rep at Hornady. The rifles produced for this caliber that had been delivered to Hornady for testing where the same type as the ones used for the .375 Ruger. We are going to have cracked stocks galore in 2009.

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:
This is great to see. We all knew it was coming (who else?), and I think it's going to be a runaway success because of the power and ability to fit into essentially any action you can find.

that's what and why I designed the 2.55" AR rounds... and didn't bother with a .375

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:

The only problem I see, and Ruger continues to do this, is the "short-light" rifle design. I'll take a 7.5lb, 20" bbl 308 any day of the week, but why would I want something along the lines of a 300 Win or worse, a 416 Remington?! That's gotta be just obnoixious to shoot - from both ends!

Amen brother!

The whole point of this cartridge is just stupid. Why build a cartridge designed for a short action lightweight gun when the last thing you want to do is to put it in a short action lightweight gun? The .375 Ruger was not a bad idea other than it was a shameless duplication of a fine cartridge that already existed. The whole concept behind a .416 Ruger doesn't even make sense.

Dave

Dave,
I guess its a question of taste, like most things in these tools. a 7.5# 375 sounds about right to me, and a 8.5# 416 taylor is slightly overweight... these rounds DON'T Kick... oh, sure, more than a 30-06, but these aren't 458 lotts or 500s .. they are MEDIUMS ...

okay, that's just my opinion... but i am damn happy that someone FINALLY gets it ... oh, other than winchester, that mad 8.5# 416 rems.. with too short a LOP ...

one doesn't need a 10# 416... it's unhandy

I have a 375 Ruger African model (wood stock). I have not had any problems out of it and it is very accurate. I did have the stock fully bedded which I am sure improved accuracy and possibly eliminated the stock cracking issue.

I personally am looking forward to the 416 and plan on getting one. Is it going to outperform other 416's, probably not but at least equal their performance. The lighter weight is not an issue to me as I would rather it be lighter carrying it around in the bush.

Also I never notice the recoil in the field and anything with 416 in the name I don't plan on extended shooting sessions with it on the bench other than load development.

Also I just like new things, nothing wrong with that or having somethng new on the market.

I'm putting my order in for a Hougue stocked s/s Alaskan in 416 Rugeras soon as I sell off a couple of other rifles.

I feel this is an awesomely compact perfectly weighted rifle/cartridge combo.

No I am not planning a trip to Africa this gun will be for grizzly hunting and defense while I am working in remote wilderness areas here in BC.

The 375 Ruger does nothing for me but this combo now this will be perfect.

I know this is rather mundane info, but...

.375 Ruger Balistics
270gr. SP: BC: .380 SD: .229
Range / FPS / ME / Drop
0 yards - 2840 fps - 4825 ME / -1.5"
100 - 2600 - 4052 / +1.8"
200 - 2372 - 3373 / 0.0"
300 - 2156 - 2786 / -8.0"


.416 Ruger Balistics
400gr. Solid or SP: appx BC: .311 SD: .330
0 - 2400 - 5116 / -1.5"
100 - 2143 - 4077 / 0.0" (w/ 200 yd. zero: +3.11")
200 - 1902 - 3212 / -6.1" (200yd zero: 0.0")
300 - 1579 - 2504 / -21.9" (200 yd zero: -13.0")

Note: The .416 uses a 100 yard zero compared to the .375's 200 yard zero.

.375 vs. .416 (2840fps / 270 gr. vs. 2400fps / 400gr.)
Momentum: 109 vs. 137
TKO: 41 vs. 57

Very, very interesting with the TKO factors...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The Ruger bolt action 458 Lott has nearly 6000ftlbs of energy with the recoil of a 300wm.Plus,you get to shoot a 500gr bullet.

The recoil of a WHAT.........?

I like how they say it does everything the .416 Rigby does, but from a 20" barrel, and then proceed to list ballistics from a 24" test barrel. Even in a bore of this diameter, substancial velocity is lost from 4" less barrel. Also, the .416 Rigby is loaded to pressures (factory) of about 40,000 PSI to aid in extraction in hot climates with dirt and humidity being possible factors. I would guess Ruger's pressures have to be higher from this smaller case.

I have a hard time understanding the need to wring maximum velocity out of every "new" cartridge that comes along.

Back in the day, the .416 Rigby made its reputaion with 410gr bullet around 2350fps from a 28" test barrel.

If we wanted to duplicate the origional .416 Rigby there's no need to have velocities over 2300fps from a 20" or 24" barrel.

Why the trend towards faster velocities and more recoil when a cartridge the size of the .416 Ruger (and the majority of shooters) would be better served by just duplicating the origional Rigby ballistics is beyond me.

But this is America - and if it's not quicker, faster, and stronger, it's crap.

quote:

Originally posted by Wes Pryor:
I have a hard time understanding the need to wring maximum velocity out of every "new" cartridge that comes along.

Back in the day, the .416 Rigby made its reputaion with 410gr bullet around 2350fps from a 28" test barrel.

If we wanted to duplicate the origional .416 Rigby there's no need to have velocities over 2300fps from a 20" or 24" barrel.

Why the trend towards faster velocities and more recoil when a cartridge the size of the .416 Ruger (and the majority of shooters) would be better served by just duplicating the origional Rigby ballistics is beyond me.

But this is America - and if it's not quicker, faster, and stronger, it's crap.

Agreed. Which is one reason why I do my deer hunting with a .257 Bob. Maximum power just isn't absolutely necessary to get the job done.

Having said that, Ruger needed to create a differentiation with their product compared to the original. The differentiation of just offering a smaller, lighter action really isn't enough to get people to wake up - and when it comes to Dangerous Game most people subscribe to the old addage of "Bigger is Better".

Ruger pumped up the volume so to speak: more velocity at higher pressures in a short action. What I actually consider "revolutionary" is that they did this in a rifle that costs $850 or so. This puts it squarely in the range of affordability of the "average joe". People who might not be able to afford an African game hunt might actually find such a dream hunt a tad more achievable.

When I first looked at the concept of a DG hunt in Africa all I could see were $10k double rifles. Then I saw $2k Ruger RSM's. And now there's sub $1k rifles.

And the hunt just got a little more affordable and doable for me.

Anyway, I applaud Ruger for their work and I'm glad some company had gonads enough to buck the trend.

And, having said all that, I still wholeheartedly agree with your comments above.

quote:

Originally posted by .530Woodleigh:
I like how they say it does everything the .416 Rigby does, but from a 20" barrel, and then proceed to list ballistics from a 24" test barrel. Even in a bore of this diameter, substancial velocity is lost from 4" less barrel. Also, the .416 Rigby is loaded to pressures (factory) of about 40,000 PSI to aid in extraction in hot climates with dirt and humidity being possible factors. I would guess Ruger's pressures have to be higher from this smaller case.

properly sized case capacity and higher pressure than a rigby ... obvious answer.

dumb solutions.. 500 cid cadillac motors at 8MPG to go 65 mph ... 400 bHP
smart answer, 4.6L 320 NET hp, at 27 MPG at 65...

I've owned both ... trust me, the northstar slaughters the giant caddy, in all aspects, including longevity

oh well, luddites

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Didn't someone say that that 416 Ruger would never happen? Oops!

Rusty:

I confess that I was one of the doubters but not because I didn't think it was possible but because I didn't think Ruger had an appropriate platform for the cartridge and I still don't. The Ruger Hawkeye weighs in at 7.75 pounds. That's far to light for a .416 pushing a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps. However, for those guys who want one, I say have at it. I think the low pressure .416 Rigby is maybe the best magazine cartridge ever.

Dave

''

But Dave what if you are wrong ... A 7lb 416 pushing a 300 gr bullet @ 2800 is just the ticket . Have you picked up a Remington 375 RUM lately . and they burn nearly 100 gr of powder .

Well, back to my original point, which no one has seemed to address....They claim Rigby velociy from a 20" bbl, then show ballistics from a 24" tube. Am I the only one asking this question? I never mentioned anything about "wringing-out" any last velocity. I never mentioned anything about miles per gallon or cars for that matter.But,in automobile terms, would it be right for a car manufacturer to claim 30 MPG on 87 octane when in fact the car could only do it on 93 octane?No. I'm not bashing the cartridge. I don't know that much about it. The only thing I have a slight problem with is in black and white on Ruger's own site...Thats all. If the .416 can do it from a 20"bbl, then show it from a 20" bbl. Not suggesting you fellas return your Rugers. lol

I sure don't see whay all the pissing and moaning about new rounds Well the andswer to this Question is very simple for all of you who don't like it don't buy it.

I think new rounds are are great idea so what if they duplcate something out here if the company sells more guns because of them good.

I most likely well not buy one unless I find one on the used open marget.

Hell any of these new rounds a set of dies and 100 rounds of brass for hunting you'll have a rifle and ammo for a life time.

quote:

Originally posted by .530Woodleigh:
Well, back to my original point, which no one has seemed to address....They claim Rigby velociy from a 20" bbl, then show ballistics from a 24" tube.

I'll take a crack at this...

They show 2400fps from a 24" tube. But claim Rigby ballistics from a 20"tube.

I figure that you'd loose a few fps by going to a 20" tube so your real velocity would be around 2300 to 2350fps.

Which would pretty much match early 1900's .416 Rigby ballistics.

So technically they're not lying when they say you are getting 'Rigby' ballistics out of a 20" barrel.


.

.. It won,t be hard gettinf Rigby ballistics from a 20 "barrel .. The 375 Ruger gave factory H&H velocities 24" velocities from a 20" barrel so undoubtedly the 416 Ruger will also .... ... All of this moaning and carrying on about a great rifle ..........For a super great price ........You don,t like it go buy something else ............. Or better yet , move to someplace where you can work your guns , then pack a Rigby around all the time ,, You will soon want the same power in about a 3 pound lighter rifle ........ I can,t wait till they get out .. And I have about the perfect 416 Rem ,HUNTING rifle ,,,,. That little 416 Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan will be awesome ...... If you watch the Big Bear video on the Alaskan Forum , the guide was using a 45/70 Marlin Guide Gun ..... A 416 Ruger will be so much better for that job than a lever gun ...

It should be very close to rigby balistics even with a 20" tube.I have a 416 taylor with 21" barrel and get the 400gr hornady out at 2350fps and the 350's out at 2500.the ruger should add 50-100fps within reasonable pressures.