The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Which caliber for a beginner?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
Hi everyone, Just wanted your opinions on which caliber would be best for a beginner who is recoil sensitive and does not plan to hunt all over the planet with a big bore. I've read alot on the web and this forum about the 40's and the various other calibers. Now it's time to get down to what everyone else suggests before I choose. Second question: Which brand and type of rifle should I pick for my first DGR? I appreciate your time and your responses. Thanks. | ||
|
One of Us |
Try a 9.3 or a 375H&H. The 9,3 will take out most critters on this planet. It has less recoil than a 375. If you find that you can handle a 375, which really doesn't hurt at all(soft recoil), I'd suggest you get one(375H&H) because of the availability of very good bullets out there. It's almost impossible to not get an accurate load when you get to handloading for it. Used to be 475Guy add about 2000 more posts | |||
|
One of Us |
None of them!!! However if one needs a DG rifle the 9.3 X 62 just might be the easiest one to acclimate to. After one has cut his teeth on the 9.3 he might then try for something bigger. The 9.3 can be used any time for a lot of big game and DG hunting as a backup or as the rifle of choice. But one needs to find a way to learn to shoot it.....ear phones really helps to take the sound down as a lot of flinch is noise responce more than recoil motivated. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
I like my 9,3x62, but as a general rule, the .375 can do every thing the 9,3 can do and then some. As a client, you do not NEED anything bigger. It is always fun though  A ruger no 1 in 450/400 is the other choice. I have never used the Ruger in this cal, but I have in .375, 458 and (once) in .500 NE. My uncle had a double in this caliber that I used quite alot as a kid, and it was very pleasant to shoot. Lastly, a .458 Win can be down loaded with 400grn bullets at 1600fps and used for deer and hog at home- good practice, but you need to be a reloader to get the most out of it. (same goes for the 9,3x62 though) As to brand... I find the shape of the current CZ 550 stocks accentuates felt recoil from annything except the standing possition. I much prefer the Winchester M70 stock. Tyr several brands, and find one that fits you. That is more important than the make. Just about all makes need a visit to the gunsmith to polish up and make work flawlessly, bed the stock etc, so start with one that feels right. Oh, and don't worry about using a single shot on dangerous game. As a client it is absolutely fine. Where I hunt, very, very few clients could get a second shot off if the first one was poor anyway - for that you need a double or semi auto. speaking of which, I just had a client with a M1 Garand in .458 Win. Very soft recoil! They apparently also do a Garand conversion to 9,3x62- that would have to be the softest shooting "dangerous game legal" rifle out there. | |||
|
One of Us |
isn't the 458 Lott (458 Buhmiller) the most practical for this situation? load down to 45-70 levels and up to the meaner loads of 500@ 2300?????? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Since you have a double in 9.3 X74 https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=825105076#825105076 is the idea to get a bolt gun of similar calibre or bigger? Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
I find shooting the .375 H&H offhand over sticks to be very manageable. If you are a reloader you can, with any cartridge, start off at your level of recoil tolerance and gradually work up as you get more accustomed to the more stiffer recoil.
an M1 in .458! Must have been a rather radical modification throughout. And it functioned in the clip-fed semi-auto mode? Not that I want one but do you know who did the conversion?  Namibiahunter  . | |||
|
| one of us |
Boomie, We have hashed this out here. James Watts did it before Buhmiller according to my sources. Watts tipped Fred Barnes to the idea while asking about bullets, and he tipped P.O. Ackley while lining up his barrel source. Watts finally had built for him the long talked of straight-cased 2.85" .458/.375H&H in 1949. Barnes had the 450 Barnes Supreme near simultaneously in 1949, and it was much like the 450 Ackley that soon followed. Just what year did Buhmiller build his .458/.375 H&H? P.O. Ackley Vol.I gives some clues. He made many safaris to test out himself first (1954 and 1955 I reckon) and then his new rifles, his ".450 Magnum" and his ".45 Weatherby," went in 1958 and also at sometime even the 50-calibers on the H&H (rebated bullet tail like a giant 22 rimfire bullet) and .378 Wby necked up. He beat Roy Weatherby at his own game, taught him the ".460 Weatherby," but not James Watts, nor Fred Barnes, nor P.O. Ackley. However, Roy Weatherby may have started all these good ol' big-bore-boys cogitating with the .375 Weatherby of 1944. Buhmiller did all kinds of wildcats in the 1950's, but was making his sixth trip to Africa in 1962, and planning to use his ".450 Magnum" which he described as "same thing as a .450 Ackley for all practical purposes." He seems to have decided that his ".450 Ackley equivalent" was "enough gun." Maybe he should be considered the father of the .510 Wells, 500 A-Square, etc. Buhmiller even did the .423 on the H&H and .378 Weatherby cases, in the late 1950's, and talked of 500-grain .423 bullets like they would be perfect for woodchucks.  Best beginner's rifle for DG? .375 H&H. | |||
|
Moderator |
458 lott and a reloading kit with 500 rem 405s opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
But please don't use the Remington 405's on anything alive. They are for paper, milk jugs, 15 gallon detergent barrels and 55 gallon barrels should you have any around. "I can't be over gunned because the animal can't be over dead"-Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sure you can use the 405 grainers, just load them to the appropriate velocity--around 1600 f/s or so. Used to be 475Guy add about 2000 more posts | |||
|
| One of Us |
Would you have to use some filler if you loaded the Lott down that far? "I can't be over gunned because the animal can't be over dead"-Elmer Keith | |||
|
| one of us |
Personally ... this is where the old 10.75x68 shines. Nowdays, get a 416Taylor built at around 10.5lb and load your 400gr reloads back to 2150fps. In factory rifles the CZ550 in 375H&H has the weight to soak up the mild recoil generated ... likewise in 416Rigby with reloads held back. Cheers... Con | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hey Guys, WbyPower is right. I do have a double Krieghoff 9.3x74R. I also shoot a 300 Weatherby. I suppose I did not explain my question properly. My appologies. What I was trying to find out was your recommendations for larger than 9.3 caliber DG rifle cartridges, makes and models. I've been looking at Weatherbys, Rugers, Winchesters, CZs, and many others. My dreams would be to get a new Krieghoff in 450/400 when they come out next year. However, as most of you well know, saving up $12 grand just to buy a gun can take some time. I'm not pressed for time, but I was thinking about other options to waiting two or three more years to get my DGR. So, now back to my original post. What is your recommendation for a DGR caliber that doesn't "kill on both ends". I know they all pretty much provide some recoil, but which has the least and then, which action type, make and model do YOU think is best for a newbee? Thanks for all your time and great advice. Take Care! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Try a 375 down loaded till you acclimate to recoil. My son is 17 yrs old weighs 145lbs and shoots a 8.75lb 416 Rem mag very well. Of course he shoots big bores on a monthly basis. Stock fit in my opinion is 50% of felt recoil, the rifle must fit you. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
|
| One of Us |
IMHO, which is just and only that: buy a CZ in 416 Rigby. It complements the 9,3x74R double you have very well. Anything you can't handle with a 416 Rigby, stay away from! Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
|
| One of Us |
I found they work great on jackrabbits. | |||
|
one of us |
My suggestion is the 9.3. Otherwise the 375, which to me has noticeably more recoil. No need for anything bigger. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| one of us |
You may want to consider the 404 Jeffery from CZ-USA. I fired it this weekend along with a Blaser chambered in 416 Rem Mag. There was a recognizable difference. The 404 was definitely more comfortable. TerryR | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ruger Hawkeye .375 Ruger. | |||
|
| one of us |
Ding ding ... we have a winner in my opinion as well!! My CZ American in 416Rigby is one of the most comfortable rifles I've fired with open sights, plus its factory fitted with 2 crossbolts. Add a scope and mounts and the weight goes up a bit more for added comfort. Cheers... Con | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think if you want something a bit different with a lot of class you can't go past a .416 Rigby, I like my cz 550 a lot. If you want to be very practical a .458 win mag/Lott due to all the 45/70 style bullets or a .375 H&H. Personally I would opt for the .416 Rigby. | |||
|
| One of Us |
+1, I have an Alaskan, and it's very comfortable to shoot -- much easier than my #1 in 375 H&H was. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. | |||
|
one of us |
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
|
| One of Us |
  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| one of us |
Just get the barrel set and have them fitted by Kreighoff here in the US. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
|
Moderator |
+1 more. Love mine. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Since you've got some time to spare, why not try to hook with some AR guys and try out their guns in different calibers? They hold an event in Texas a few times a year just so guys can pop a few caps and tell a few lies. Used to be 475Guy add about 2000 more posts | |||
|
| One of Us |
375 Ruger is out because he said he wants bigger and his deeam rifle would be a 450/400. So bigger than 375 and minimum recoil. 416 Remington loaded back to 2100 f/s. For more classic but less practical then 404 Jeffery loaded to 2100 or so. 416 Rigby will be more involved to get back to 2100. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dont confuse lies with the art and culture of "Tall Tale Telling" 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you've got a 9.3 double, I'd sell it, buy a 9.3X62 or 375 H&H bolt action, and get a 470 double (or the like). That way you've got your plains gamer and your big boy killer. Nothing against the 9.3 double; I have one and love it. If that's too much to handle, get a 416 remington or rigby (no offense to Taylor guys here, but it sounds to me like he doesn't reload or hunt/shoot the big stuff that frequently). A 416 will pretty much have you covered for anything. A 404 loaded to it's older specs wouldn't kick as bad, but factory stuff will be harder to come by. If you're recoil sensitive and want to shoot big bores, you'll have to nut up a bit, bite the bullet, and just shoot till it don't hurt no more. Or, start reloading and work your way up. A 416 can be turned into a puppy and so can a 458 Lott, but eventually you'll need to plug in the heaters and get after it to get used to it. Some folks say practice makes one develop a flinch. I think that's honky; you just need to practice and will yourself not to flinch. Once you learn that the gun and all that noise won't kill you, you'll be able to handle the big stuff. Best of luck. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
|
One of Us |
.......Not that I disagree with anyone here , But my 1 st thot on reading the ? was the 450/400 in a Ruger # 1 ....The 458 would be a great choice , either one . but with the hand loads Jeffe mentioned... A CZ 550 in 404 Jeffries would be alot of fun , as would the 416 .. I think the #1 in 450 400 would be about the cats meow tho .... Have fun ... .,.The 450 Buhmiller was the necked up 378 case ....., Buhmiller did neck the 378 case up to 50 ., A friend told me my 500 A-Sq. looked just like it ,, and sounded just like it also ..He was a friend of John Buhmiller,s in Montana and had shot John,s big 50 .... I seem to be comeing into that psuedo hijack kinda side ways so please don,t jump down my throat ...............OH and the 416 Remington . 350 gr Speer @ around 2600 fps makes a " Darn fine Coyote Rifle "  .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
|
| One of Us |
dblhunter. I back my Zim friend Don Heath (Ganyana) on this one. First let's look at location - Louisville, Kentucky. The 9,3x62mm (my personal favourite) is not yet as popular in the USA as the .375 H&H Mag, nor are components so readily available everyhwere. Also, if you don't like big bores (like hell you won't) it will propably be easier to get rid of a .375 H&H at a good price than a 9,3. The also - should you like big bores it will be easier/cheaper to rebarrel a .375 to .458 Lott or a .416 Rem Mag than a 9,3x62mm as the mag box mods will be minimal if necessary at all. Final advice. Get some mercury recoil reducers and put them in the stock. They add a bit of weight and counter recoil - making the gun eminently manageable. Recoil sensitivity is a state of mind coupled to exposure. I call it 'recoil fitness'. The more you shoot a big bore the less sensitive you will become - just start and regularly go back smaller to work on any flinches. You can also add a real good recoil sucking pad for a start. Before you start shooting - make sure the gun fits you. Brand wise. I would opt for a CZ-550, a new model Ruger M-77 with the L-67 or whatever trigger or something else affordable to start with. Pierre van der Walt | |||
|
| One of Us |
I dig the the #1's too, and I would love to have one in a 450/400 or a 404 jeff, and yes there are #1's in a 450/400. However, I don't know that that many DG PH's really want some client with no experience setting out on a buff hunt with a single shot... let's face it, that would be ridiculous. Now, if he's not planning on EVER shooting any sort of DG, then go ahead with the Ruger. I suppose he could use his new big bore for paper, pigs, and a baited black bear. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hey Guys, Thanks for all the input and advice. I have alot to learn about guns and calibers and I can't think of a better place than with you guys to learn it. However, I must also say I've been hunting for the past 45 years. I lived in Alaska for ten years. I used, shot and carried a Win. model 70 .375 H&H, a Ruger #1 .375 and a Ruger #1 .458. I handloaded for both of those calibers and shot them often. Recoil, at that time, was not a problem at all. I moved back to the lower 48 years ago and didn't see a need for those heavier calibers, sold them off for a couple of nice Browning O/U's. Today, I spend most my time bird hunting, duck hunting, and occassionally a little deer hunting. My new interest is HOG hunting. That's why I picked up my Krieghoff 9.3x74r. I don't plan to go to Africa, but I know guys who go every year and beg me to go with them. WHo knows? I just might jump at the chance some day. However, my money is spent these days on kids and grandkids. I don't really have a need for a BIG BORE, but like alot of other people on this web, I just want one. I'm seriously considering the advice one of you gave about having Krieghoff put an extra set of barrels on my current gun. That sounds alot cheaper than trying to buy a whole new gun. I would really love a set of 450/400's on the gun. Apparently, Krieghoff is coming out with them next year in '08. I truly appreciate all the time that you all put into my questions and I look forward to reading some of your posts on other topics as well. The more you right, the more I learn!! Thanks everyone. Take Care! | |||
|
| one of us |
Kreighoff's proprietary 500/416 is a nice one too for a second barrel set. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
|
Moderator |
If you're recoil sensitive and don't want to hunt the globe, a 30-06 will do anything you want. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Mike, that is not technically correct. What he said was...
Emphasis added by me.  So, as I read it, my recommendation for the 375 Ruger is still on. BUT, if he is truly interested in only .40's and up, I'd recommend the 416 Taylor or 404 Jeff. The 416 Remmy is right in there too, IMHO. Cheers, Canuck | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hey Guys, Me Again, I like the suggestion about getting the Krieghoff 500/416. I've been looking at that one as well. If I saved up my pennies, I could get that one a long time before the 450/400 barrels would be available. The 500/416 is supposed to be a pretty good round and I've read that it doesn't quite have the same felt recoil as the 470 does, but then, I'm just a read and not someone who really knows for sure. I'm sure there are people out there who do know for sure. So, maybe some of them will get into this conversation. I would have logged back on earlier, but I was out in my back yard shooting my 9.3x74r. Love that gun!! | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Which caliber for a beginner?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia