The Accurate Reloading Forums
50 Beowulf vs 500 A2 in Penetration
08 September 2007, 03:48
ScottS50 Beowulf vs 500 A2 in Penetration
It isn't just true of the 45-70! The 50 Beowulf loaded with 420gr HC @ 1600 fps (max load by the way) will flat out penetrate a 500 A2!! Penetration media used for the test:
1.) Dry magazines
2.) Wet phone books
3.) Logs ~ 12" thick.
08 September 2007, 03:53
boom stick
08 September 2007, 04:37
congomike
08 September 2007, 05:34
Whitworth
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
08 September 2007, 05:38
boom stickseems nobody is taking scotts bait
08 September 2007, 09:38
C.Wathen
Cory
Still saving up for a .500NE double rifle(Searcy of course)
08 September 2007, 17:36
ScottSNot BS gentlemen, but fact! The 50 Beowulf does indeed out penetrate the 500 A Square magnum.
Interestingly enough we found the 30 Carbine out penetrated the 7.62X39 also.
08 September 2007, 18:27
gduffeyMaybe I'll take my .30 carbine instead of my .404J or .450 Dakota, or 7.62X39. By the way the penetration potential of the .30 carbine is not interesting....but thats just me.
08 September 2007, 19:57
Robgunbuilder
-Rob
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
08 September 2007, 22:37
Michael Robinson
Mike
Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
08 September 2007, 23:35
KMuleinAKquote:
Not BS gentlemen, but fact! The 50 Beowulf does indeed out penetrate the 500 A Square magnum.
Interestingly enough we found the 30 Carbine out penetrated the 7.62X39 also.
Please show the proof of your statement for our enlightenment.
thanks
KMule
Hear and forget. See and remember. Do and understand.
09 September 2007, 00:32
ALF/
09 September 2007, 00:52
GrandpasezLower energy, further penetrating, bullets,
in 45-70, 50 whatever, 500 S&W,480 Ruger--
don't equate to better kills in dangerous
big game- It doesn't yield more damage
and shock to dangerous big game.Much better
have 3 times the energy all dumped in the
animal making damaged area the size of
oil drum, 2/3 the way through..Ed
MZEE WA SIKU
09 September 2007, 02:42
KMuleinAK
Ed - perhaps some folks have been charged by stacks of reading material or rogue trees?
I wouldn't want to be stomped into the dirt by a several thousand pound mass of pissed off, enraged wet phone books or dry magazines; and those DG trees, I bet those are some BMF's...
Like Will says, "once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too big of gun"
A huge stack of Sear or JC Penneys catalogs could flatten a mere human.
Please be more sensitive to their fears.
This may have happened to
Have a nice day
KMule
Hear and forget. See and remember. Do and understand.
09 September 2007, 02:56
jeffeossoso, scott's weapon of mass confusion is to roll bullets along a sheet of paper, and allow the .0035" drop to create an iraqi rain of death through the center of the earth.
no, wait..
allow me to restate
09 September 2007, 06:25
IndlovuTHEREBY CONTRAVENING ALL THE LAWS OF PHYSICS, COMMON-SENSE, AND MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH 6 BIG BORES OVER 15 YEARS. BRILLIANT!
quote:
Originally posted by ScottS:
It isn't just true of the 45-70! The 50 Beowulf loaded with 420gr HC @ 1600 fps (max load by the way) will flat out penetrate a 500 A2!! Penetration media used for the test:
1.) Dry magazines
2.) Wet phone books
3.) Logs ~ 12" thick.
09 September 2007, 07:08
GrandpasezSure slow bullets out penetrate faster ones, but do they damage the target as much. No.
I saw test on Discovery channel about
how far bullets would penetrate in water,
and slower slug pentrated more, and when they
shot bmg into the pool it shed its jacket and
stopped in half the distance of a slower slug,
but slower slug didn't hardly ripple the pool
while the bmg shook the whole thing.That's
the shock effect that kills game and
disables big game quickly.Ed.
MZEE WA SIKU
09 September 2007, 07:31
jwp475hubel458,that's the point that most are missing here the harder (faster a bullet hits the harder the resistance the medium puts on the projectile and even thou the slower bullet pentrates more it does not leave as large of a wound channel and the faster bullets penetrate more than enough......
_____________________________________________________
A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill
09 September 2007, 08:03
CRUSHER
VERITAS ODIUM PARIT
09 September 2007, 08:55
ALF/
10 September 2007, 19:44
congomikeDecided to try this out myself this weekend. Took my trusty 416 Rigby, loaded with solids, and a friend took his 50 Beowulf loaded with cast bullets.
Anway we took a bunch of dead phone books out to the range, wet of course. I had just fired my first shot, when low and behold, a phone book, which I thought was dead, came back to life! Not just any phone book, but a Denver Yellow Pages phone book! I put three rounds into it from my Rigby and they just bounced off! It was still charging, closing the distance between us each passing second. I threw my Rigby down and grabbed the Beowulf. I could clearly see the printing on the cover, the yellow and blue coloring, with the black writing looking at me "like I owed it money" (sorry about that plagerism there). I pulled the mighty Beowulf to my shoulder, and fired the first shot...perfect shot, angled in and made it to the page listing Proctologists. The book stopped, but just for an instant, and then a full on charge! I lined up and "spined" it, (sorry, again), and it crumpled to the ground, barely 3 yards from me and my shooting buddy. As its pages fluttered once more in the dry Colorado breeze, I thanked my lucky stars I had a Beowulf!
10 September 2007, 19:55
WhitworthLOL congomike!
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
10 September 2007, 20:13
analog_peninsulaCongomike, you're my hero.
analog_peninsula
-----------------------
It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence.
10 September 2007, 21:07
ScottScongomike,
Excellent "hunting story"! That 50 Beowulf is as awesome as a 45-70 ain't it!!
10 September 2007, 22:03
IanDI am so confused. Here I am thinking more power means better penetration. I should just sell all my guns except the Marlin in .45/70 as it is the king of all calibers when loaded to trapdoor levels
11 September 2007, 00:36
Canuckquote:
Originally posted by ScottS:
It isn't just true of the 45-70! The 50 Beowulf loaded with 420gr HC @ 1600 fps (max load by the way) will flat out penetrate a 500 A2!! Penetration media used for the test:
1.) Dry magazines
2.) Wet phone books
3.) Logs ~ 12" thick.
11 September 2007, 01:37
ScottSCanuck,
Check out the post icon on my original post!
On game performance of the 50 Beowulf with the hard cast 420 gr pill is on par with a 300 Win mag with 180/200 gr Sierras. Which ain't bad for bambis, but not my first choice for anything bigger than a 200 to 300 pounds (particularly if it can fight back).
By the way, those hard casts didn't hold up in the A^2 at the velocity it spit them out at. I suspect that is why the 50 Beowulf won. Shooting 600 gr Woodleigh PPSP out of the 500 A2 at a measly 2250 fps and we couldn't stop them with ~ 3 feet of solid maple. The Beowulf HC slugs did not go through more than ~ 12" of the same maple.
Didn't try the Woodleigh PPSP (protected point soft point) in any other media.
11 September 2007, 04:05
IndlovuPrecisely my sentiments, Watson!
quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
JWP 475:
the point that most are missing here the harder (faster a bullet hits the harder the resistance the medium puts on the projectile and even thou the slower bullet pentrates more it does not leave as large of a wound channel and the faster bullets penetrate more than enough......Not quite! We are not missing the point at all!
The relationship between drag ( resistance to penetration) is dependent on the mechanical properties of the target.
In water like media the resistance is related to velocity squared,
but as long as the drag force does not cause the bullet to deform and the bullet does not become unstable the faster bullet will still going to outpenetrate the slower bullet allbeit at a ever deminishing rate. It's an exponential curve, it does not at a point reverse.
The size of temporary cavitation is also a drag function. Again as long as the bullet does not deform or become unstable there will be little difference between the faster or slower bullet at any given point in the in target trajectory but because the faster goes deeper the one with the longest in target trajectory will have shed the most energy. ( that is if both come to a stop in target)
This graph shows the principle
Line 1 (black) is the penetration curve for dense media ( non compressable fluids) it shows that drag is proportional to velocity squred.
Curve II (red) is for shear thickening fluids like honey and grease, if you spoon honey the faster you move the spoon the greater the resistance encountered.
Curve III ( blue) is for primary cohesive materials such as wood and other "dry" solids. resitance is unrelated to the velocity.
11 September 2007, 04:10
IndlovuCongomike, you DA MAN!!
[
QUOTE]Originally posted by congomike:
Decided to try this out myself this weekend. Took my trusty 416 Rigby, loaded with solids, and a friend took his 50 Beowulf loaded with cast bullets.
Anway we took a bunch of dead phone books out to the range, wet of course. I had just fired my first shot, when low and behold, a phone book, which I thought was dead, came back to life! Not just any phone book, but a Denver Yellow Pages phone book! I put three rounds into it from my Rigby and they just bounced off! It was still charging, closing the distance between us each passing second. I threw my Rigby down and grabbed the Beowulf. I could clearly see the printing on the cover, the yellow and blue coloring, with the black writing looking at me "like I owed it money" (sorry about that plagerism there). I pulled the mighty Beowulf to my shoulder, and fired the first shot...perfect shot, angled in and made it to the page listing Proctologists. The book stopped, but just for an instant, and then a full on charge! I lined up and "spined" it, (sorry, again), and it crumpled to the ground, barely 3 yards from me and my shooting buddy. As its pages fluttered once more in the dry Colorado breeze, I thanked my lucky stars I had a Beowulf!
[/QUOTE]
11 September 2007, 04:13
Indlovu
quote:
Originally posted by ScottS:
It isn't just true of the 45-70! The 50 Beowulf loaded with 420gr HC @ 1600 fps (max load by the way) will flat out penetrate a 500 A2!! Penetration media used for the test:
1.) Dry magazines
2.) Wet phone books
3.) Logs ~ 12" thick.
