Has anyone read in the latest Rifle mag about the 475 Turnbull?
It's a 2.2" 50-110 case necked down and loaded to 2.7" in a 26" barreled 1886 Winchester.
They are claiming a 400gn bullet at 2300 fps and a 500 at 2100 with a max pressure of 41k psi.
The article shows pics of Cape buff taken with it.

I plugged some of the loads into Quickload and it shows much higher pressures than 41k. That's just a simulation though.

Yes it's the real deal, Doug has posted some of his load development on hear.
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=462109367#462109367
Bill

those are about identical to the figures I am getting from my M71/1886 clone in 50-110. I expect mr Turnbull is doing this to differentiate it from folks like my jazzing up the originals. I AM looking forward to meeting him at the shoot-out next month!!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

So we are talking old school 470 nitro velocities?

What were the original 470 Nitro velocities?

The 470 Nitro Express was supposed to be a 500gn bullet at 2150 fps. Sources vary on what the actual velocity was. Some say 2000 fps, 2050 fps. It probably depends on the barrel length though. I think many of them were for a 28" barrel(I could be thinking of something else here though). So if it was 2150 in a 28" barrel, then 2050 in a 24" sounds reasonable.

Have the loads for the 475 Turnbull been pressure tested or with a strain gauge like in the Ruger no. 1 that was in the article?

From just looking at Quickload, it seems like the pressures would be much higher. Quickload is just a simulation though. What is the case capacity? Somewhere around 85gns H2O?

There was some talk about getting a magical sectional density of .300 to be a proper DG stopper bullet.
So here's a few notes for those who have to wonder, what if. You can plug the equation into Excell and spit out what ever your interested in.

SD = [(bullet weight in grains)/(7000 grains per pound)]/(square of bullet diameter in inches)

pulled this equation off of one of RIPs posts.
weight =A2*B2*B2*7000
SD Bore weight
0.3 1 2100
0.3 0.73 1119
0.3 0.7 1029
0.3 0.62 807
0.3 0.585 719
0.3 0.51 546
0.3 0.5 525
0.3 0.475 474
0.3 0.458 441
0.3 0.416 363
0.3 0.395 328
0.3 0.375 295
0.3 0.366 281
0.3 0.358 269
0.3 0.308 199

FWIW

With the lack of many outraged posts does this mean the DG levergun debate is over?

The 500 Kodiak Express and Turnbull threads were quite civil.

There was NEVER outrage as to a levergun. There was, however, annoyance at having the levergun/45-70 being put forth as the cat's meow as to the do-all gun/cartridge combo. Lots of us grew up using leverguns and do still have 4570's but know it's limitations.

even 50-110's have been pooh pooh'd

what is the price to get one from turnbull without all the fancy stuff more of a working gun

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
With the lack of many outraged posts does this mean the DG levergun debate is over?

The 500 Kodiak Express and Turnbull threads were quite civil.

Boom,

You never did understand that nobody was mad at .45-70's or lever guns. Just the MORONS who were trying to push that combination as the do all, be all DG rifle.

I mentioned Dave Clay's .450 Lever gun years ago as being not only adequate but a very nice choice for a DG lever gun.

It is based on a .50-110 case necked to .458 and launches a 500 gr pill at 2200+ FPS.

When someone starts pontificating that the .45-70 is more effective on game than a .458 Lott or .470 NE is when people get rightfully PO'ed. This is a whole other shootin match. A cartridge that is actually in the DG category. WOW what a frickin concept!

Boom stick,

Don't try to hijack this thread AND dredge up that old dispute.

George

I did not mention the __-__
It seemed all leverguns were pooh pooh'd and unable to produce adequate energy/velocities because they would blow up or fall apart. I love leverguns and I am glad of the a acceptance they are getting.

Some thought they were ok but the majority of the posts were the negative.
no trolling here

lever guns break too much for me.... 3x the parts of a mauser...

i think Doug is trying for 400gr at 2100, not 500.

the 45/70 is a fine deer rifle, but it is a big hole, not a big bore

jeffe, you're mistaken, DT was trying for 2100 with a 475 or 450 bullet he got from NF's. Now that they're no mas, most probably a 450 gr bullet from elsewhere.

in the case he's using, it iwll need to be a 425 at 2100 to make it survivable for the guns it wll be made in. I was sticking 45-0 alaskans with a 26" tube and moly coated, with 400gr at 2250... and that was tweaked out to th enth degree, in a browning m71

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Turnbull:
I am also working to have Barnes 425 TS made up. The meplat on those should be about .300 so they will work with put problems in a lever gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Turnbull:
Yes I can get a 450 at 2050-2100FPS with out problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Turnbull:
I am working with Barnes to do a 475 cal. flat nose TS that will be designed for the DR, BA, LA guns and will be in the 375gr and out to about 450 grain ranges.

The article in Rifle mag said a 500 @ 2100 was doable, butt the lighter loads were easier on the shooter. It sure seems like the combination of everything worked very well and had lots of rounds on tap without reloading.

The price start at $900, taking your rifle and reboring to .475, rechambering and doing the mods and caliber conversion. The Barnes TS will be about 1.200" long and 400gr + the banded solid will be about the same both is length and weight but in brass as the density is less but no hole, also a cupped solid too. We are continuing to do pressure testing and will have good solid numbers very soon. The figures we are using are compulations and case head expansions. There are 3- 500gr sp/fp bullets and 1- 500 gr solid on the market. I believe that this very close to a 470 nitro express with a magazine tube. A 26" full mag rifle will hold 7 in the mag and 1 in the chamber. I will have a couple of rifles at Houston for you all to shoot. I loaded and will have lots of ammo that I am bringing so you all can have fun with them. Great fun to shoot!!!

Doug,
i NEED some of the 1.2" log TS bullets, badly!

Doug!!

Charge him double and then double again!!! He can afford to buy 18K gold bullets!!

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:
The 470 Nitro Express was supposed to be a 500gn bullet at 2150 fps. Sources vary on what the actual velocity was. Some say 2000 fps, 2050 fps. It probably depends on the barrel length though. I think many of them were for a 28" barrel(I could be thinking of something else here though). So if it was 2150 in a 28" barrel, then 2050 in a 24" sounds reasonable.

Have the loads for the 475 Turnbull been pressure tested or with a strain gauge like in the Ruger no. 1 that was in the article?

From just looking at Quickload, it seems like the pressures would be much higher. Quickload is just a simulation though. What is the case capacity? Somewhere around 85gns H2O?

Lar45
Graeme Wright listed the advertised velocity of the .470 at 2125 This was probley from a 28 inch barrel. His recorded velocity was 2025. This makes me think you are right that the reality of the time they were killing every thing with a 500 gr bullet at about 1950 to 2000 feet per sec. Out of there 24 in barrels and thinking how well it worked.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Doug!!

Charge him double and then double again!!! He can afford to buy 18K gold bullets!!

i KNEW it.. you voted for billary!

Yeah! That's me!! I am known the world over as a Bolshevik sympathizer!!

To get "true" DG ballistics from a lever gun would be TITS!

In an bad situation, given a choice, would "I" choose a lever over an DR? Probably not, but I would probably own one

quote:

The Barnes TS will be about 1.200" long and 400gr + the banded solid will be about the same both is length and weight but in brass as the density is less but no hole, also a cupped solid too.

I wonder if they will give credit to Mike Brady of North Fork for copying his design.

"Oom Janie," "Uncle John," John Buhmiller was doing the "Cup Point Solid" in copper in the 1950's, and using it on elephant and cape buffalo way back then.
If Barnes is making a cup point solid, hopefully theirs is in copper, instead of brass, but I bet it is a grooved-design (beaten and swaged to sub-barrel-groove diameter then multi-cannelured by a bank of Dremel tools in series)
unlike the North Fork or GSC banded designs.

I'd be more concerned about it's tolerances and shape.

Punch bullets come in 390 and 370 grains

We ran the 475 Turnbull over the Oehler M43.
Speer 400gr Gold dot, IMR 4198 with 56 grains, 2200 FPS, 40,000 PSI.
At 59 grains same bullet and powder, 2350 FPS, 47,000PSI