I used my 10.75 Mauser with 400gr AFrames this year for buff. I was thinking about taking my .458 M70 next year. Any experience out there using the .458 450gr AFrames? Thanks, Bob

I just purchased some of those.
Along with 480grn Woodleigh FMJs, they should be ideal for Buff.

Mine has shown sub minute of angle groupings at 2270 FPS with 450 A frames

That's the perfect soft for this cartridge. Barnes makes a wide meplatt 458 450gr solid that's available in commercial loadings.

VFR1

For limited capacity of the 458 Winchester the 450 Swift has always been an excellent choice. My equal capacity case, 458 B&M, this has been in the past my go to bullet for buffalo, running 2200-2250 fps. Excellent, and have shot several buffalo with this up front, backed by solids.

Several references to the 450 Swift on the Terminal Performance thread here in big bores, I found some good examples on page 60 of that thread. I used it last year in the 458 B&M for 7 buffalo in Australia, and have used it on several cape buffalo, and the 500 Swift in the 458 lott.

Today I am moving to a new NonCon for that sort of work.

Michael

quote:

That's the perfect soft for this cartridge. Barnes makes a wide meplatt 458 450gr solid that's available in commercial loadings.

While those bullets are good no doubt...I have a different idea on perfect. Mine is 450 gr North Forks...both the soft but especially the flat-point solid.

Easy to get ~2250fps with AA 2230...and...damn but those things will shoot...and...to same ~ POI. And for buff...you also have the choice of the cup-nose solid. Those (CNS) have been called the perfect buff bullet design.

Me...I am old fashioned...regular softs & solids. As hard as those FPS's hit...I only load solids unless shooting into a herd.

Model 70 pre-64 Win in .458 WM loves 450 gr NF's!

Thanks Michael, Excellent reference text. I have tried H335, 3031 and 4895 with the 500gr Hornadies. I have some AA2230 that I have not tried in .458WM. What powder did you use in working up the 450gr loads? Thanks, Bob

AA 2230

quote:

Originally posted by VFR1:
Thanks Michael, Excellent reference text. I have tried H335, 3031 and 4895 with the 500gr Hornadies. I have some AA2230 that I have not tried in .458WM. What powder did you use in working up the 450gr loads? Thanks, Bob

VFR1

I am the wrong one to ask these days about 458 Win, my data is old, and at the time using compressed loads of RL 15.

I think the guys here that are still working with 458 Win use the AA 2230 and is doing a good job for them, and would advise trying that.

Also, North Fork 450s are very good, every bit as good as the Swifts, and as ledvm points out, an excellent solid to go along with it! I would look hard at that combination as well. The solids have been tested several times on the thread, and somewhere from 90 or so up maybe, I tested the 450 North Fork for a fellow that was going for buffalo with very good results, and he got good results in the field as well, no surprises!

Michael

Michael

+1

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
AA 2230

Here is my load only for my Pre-64 Safari Grade Winchester model 70 in .458 Win Mag.

W-W brass
Fed 215 primers
72 gr of AA 2230 dropped into case through a 24" drop-tube (very important step)
North Fork flat-point solid seated to and crimped into the 6th grrove from the meplate or
North Fork soft-point seated to and crimped into 5th groove from meplate
crimped with LFC die.

In my rifle...very accurate (esp. the FPS's) and shoots to ~2250 fps.

If I were gonna shoot A-Frames...I would start at 69 gr of AA 2230 and work up. But...as long as I can get NF's...ain't gonna shoot no A-Frames al beit a good bullet I hear.

Lane,

Do you see a great advantage to the drop tube with the spherical powders?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Here is my load only for my Pre-64 Safari Grade Winchester model 70 in .458 Win Mag.

W-W brass
Fed 215 primers
72 gr of AA 2230 dropped into case through a 24" drop-tube (very important step)
North Fork flat-point solid seated to and crimped into the 6th grrove from the meplate or
North Fork soft-point seated to and crimped into 5th groove from meplate
crimped with LFC die.

In my rifle...very accurate (esp. the FPS's) and shoots to ~2250 fps.

If I were gonna shoot A-Frames...I would start at 69 gr of AA 2230 and work up. But...as long as I can get NF's...ain't gonna shoot no A-Frames al beit a good bullet I hear.

quote:

Lane,

Do you see a great advantage to the drop tube with the spherical powders?

When you are dealing with a limited case capacity as you are with the .458 WM...Yes...I think it makes a difference.

It definately definitely makes it where you don't have to compress with AA 2230.

Compare for yourself...pour in 72gr of AA 2230 straight from the scale-pan and then drop some from a 24" tube...you'll be amazed.

You guys got me fired up. I would try AA2230 this weekend if I were not already comitted to skiing in Colorado for the next week. Actually, we are there visiting my inlaws and I get only one day on the slopes according to my wife Another 50gr bullet wt and 100fps over the 10.75x68 is good. The down side is the Winchester is 2lb heavier than the Mauser. I will pick up some 400's and 450's from the Swift booth at the DSC. See you guys there. Bob

VFR1,

You can buy a light weight 458 Win Mag. My Browning Safari Grade initially weighed a hair below 8 lbs. With 500 grainers at +2150 FPS, it was brutal!
You need a little weight with this cartridge. 10 lbs is a good target weight. The 450 gr pill helps a bit as well.

EZ

quote:

I will pick up some 400's and 450's from the Swift booth at the DSC. See you guys there. Bob

Go by NorthForks booth as well. But...stick with 450's for the .458 WM it is the perfect marriage esp when AA 2230 consumates the deal.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
VFR1,

You can buy a light weight 458 Win Mag. My Browning Safari Grade initially weighed a hair below 8 lbs. With 500 grainers at +2150 FPS, it was brutal!
You need a little weight with this cartridge. 10 lbs is a good target weight. The 450 gr pill helps a bit as well.

EZ

EZ

Wrong on this one! Right kind of rifle a 450 at 2250 or a 500 at 2150 can be handled easy, with an 7-8 lb rifle! I know you don't believe it, but is very true.

Michael

Michael,

You have been shooting way to many BIG guns!

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
VFR1,

You can buy a light weight 458 Win Mag. My Browning Safari Grade initially weighed a hair below 8 lbs. With 500 grainers at +2150 FPS, it was brutal!
You need a little weight with this cartridge. 10 lbs is a good target weight. The 450 gr pill helps a bit as well.

EZ

EZ

Wrong on this one! Right kind of rifle a 450 at 2250 or a 500 at 2150 can be handled easy, with an 7-8 lb rifle! I know you don't believe it, but is very true.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Michael,

You have been shooting way to many BIG guns!

EZ

quote:

No EZ--Little Guns--Itty Bitty Guns

Michael, Your writings have me interested in a 50cal. My present Winchester is a CT made classic. Which of your 50's would work? Danny Pedersen can make me a bbl or rebore the original. Thanks, Bob

Bob

Been to the B&M site? Look it over, there are 3 .500 caliber cartridge for bolt guns, 500 MDM requires a Win M70 that was chambered in RUM, 50 B&M is a WSM rifle, and the 50 B&M Super Short is a WSSM rifle.

Michael

My M70 is in .458, but it looks like you can take the spacer out of the magazine and fit a .375 length cartridge. The bolt stop could probably be modified to let the bolt come back a little further to pick up the longer case. Looks like the B&M might be the correct cartridge. My hunting buddy has his .510 Wells on a standard Mauser action--I think. Sure looked like one to me. Bob

Bob

Nope! The B&Ms are based on RUM cases, they are much too wide to retain in that action. I have had SSK look at this, and a couple of other folks, and while it might could be done, no guarantees of feed, function, retain, and on top of that one would need to spend way more on this that just is not worth it.

Keep that 458 Winchester as is--

Now keep in mind, the 500 MDM is .500 caliber----NOT .510. Best bet and proven and easy to convert a Win M70 from one of the rifles built in RUM--Winchester did lot's of modifications to the action to handle the case--it's an easy 500 MDM convert. I have a couple of 500 MDMs on the website for sale, and I keep RUM rifles in the rack if someone wants to build one--do go to the web page and read about the 500 MDM first however, lot's of info there and most questions will be answered there for you.

Michael

It's all moot now. I purchased a .404 bbl/action and will be selling the .458 on the classifieds. It has an oil finish, ebony forend cap and is perfect. Tons of bullets, brass and die set. One of the last CT made Classics.