Which would you pick?

I would be willing to wager that the .458AR brass is more affordable. .458AR would be my first choice of build out of the two. The AR cartridge is a bit slicker and should feed a little easier and doesn't require a magnum action. Rodney.

Two pretty different carts and platforms.
What is your desired velocities?
What are any other considerations?
I have a 470 AR so you know my bias

I am biased. I have a .458 AR.

Ballistically both are in the same power range though the Rigby has a larger case capacity which will require more powder to get the same velocity. More powder burned for a round means more recoil.

The .450 Rigby needs to be housed in a big action. Takes a pretty talented gunsmith to make that big package feel as slender and as hasndy as a rifle built on a standard Mauser action.

wow - am flattered at the compliment.


With hornady making dies, and qual cart making brass, the choice is totally up to the PAYING person.

part of the design criteria is part of the selection for me, but it was the 470 that drove it. We can restate for the 450vs 458

rebated rim or not - rigby has no real rebate. if thats an issue for you, rigby wins

cheap brass - rum brass - 80 cents vs 1.80 for rigby, but when designed, it was 41 cents verse 4 dollars, rum vs norma rigby. The hornady rigby brass made the 500 AR a reality

headstamped brass - the AR is still cheaper than the 450 rigby, even via qual cart

more action choices - you COULD do a 458 AR on a cz 550 action, and be able to seat bullets long, btw. You just can't do a FULL LENGTH 450 rigby on most actions, though you can do any number of 2.5" versions

pedigree - well, the current 450 rigby was spec'ed in 1995, the ARs, 2005 -- both are newbies

lefthanded actions - ARs are ahead here, due to std length

pressure - for the velocities, the rigby is ahead

known-cool factor - rigby
unknown cool factor, may STILL be rigby

cheap cheap brass -- for north american loads, and hunting, you can still use rum range brass for the ARs .. even with headstamped brass available, i expect most guys are going to keep using rum brass for practice rounds

i am always complimented when someone considers one of these, though i really want them to make an informed choice on it. Until Neal and Pete got us to the point that you can order, even though it could take some time, brass, it was totally a wildcat, though very easy to form brass. Now its got formed brass on the way, its far easier to get here. Several people have prodived their real world loads, and confirmed the data on ammoguide, so it's not wild eyed action blowing EXPECTATIONS, rather real world practical data.

the 458AR is a pleasant round to shoot, for ME, at 2200 fps, with just about any bullet. At that pressure range, its a match for any of the 45s, as that is within bullet performance window, by the bullet manf.

thank you for the consideration

Thanks guys.

This is a "want" gun, definitly dont need it up here. Would be used on everything from rabbits to brown bear. Not going to africa so no DG planned.

rifle will have a roughly 20" bbl with irons, no glass. a big part of it is my wife will be shooting it, not that much though. I had a Lott and she cussed like a sailor the first time torched off a 500grainer, but she just readjusted and shot a few more times.

As for action, its gonna be on a 1917 and I already have a 458bbl.

Joel,
the first 458 AR was a mauser, about 20" barrel, and irons... 2200 was way easy to get..i published that data on ammoguide. the shorter barrel might lean towards the AR, as it burns less powder.. and WILL have less muzzle flash.. that was a funny think at this past hunt, the ARs had minimal flash at the range, shooting at night, with the less than max loads.

though a 500 at 2200 is still going to kick pretty well.. a TSX in 350 or so, probably not so much

I like the AR line, very efficient and available with any std mauser or long action. That said, I have a CZ in 450 Dakota. It was an easy conversion, with no feeding issues to date. Buy a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby and bore the barrel to 458 specs, or buy a takeoff 458 Lott barrel and fit and rechamber it. A hundred cases is a lifetime supply, even shooting warm, err hot cast bullet loads over 2200fps.

Rich
Buffalo Killer

Well if using a 1917, you'd have to get a P14 bolt to use the Rigby...but it DOES have the length. Still, it will be less work to get the AR up and running. Plus there is something very cool about having so much data and real world use from the people here who use them, let alone Jeffe, the man who created it! Show me another wildcat where you get to talk to the creator freeley like any other member of the forum?

MHS
Heh, there's the 600OK, 550 MAG/EXPRES/FLANGED/GIBBS, 510KX, 500 Mbogo, 470 Mbogo, all the 395s, and the B&Ms...

Those are some of the other ones that you can talk to the inventor asap!

Well the choice between those two it is the 458 AR hands down! No more discussion! Standard action, cheap easy brass, 20 inch barrels, not even a close race! Of course for Alaska and being me I would choose the 458 B&M with an 18 inch barrel!! OH My, forgot to keep my mouth shut, but could not resist since my pal Jeffe mentioned it!!! HEH HEh!

Michael

Hey Michael
sure enough! hard to choose between them...

Good Morning Jeffe

Sorry could not resist the poke! Yeah, both the ARs and the B&Ms pretty much have it covered as far as I am concerned! Nothing else much worth looking at! All my 458 lotts and 458 Winchesters , 470 Capsticks, and 416 Remingtons are all retired now! All of course Win M70s! Sad but true, and we move on to better things! Between the two-ARs and B&Ms I can't think of anything that is not covered when the bore size goes over 40!

Head Stamped brass available, and fairly reasonable for both too-dies available from at least two or more sources, plenty of available platforms, both will work in shorter barrels, lighter, faster, and easy to carry! No down sides with either!

Again between the two-458 AR and that other thing, not even close comparison.

Michael

I am currently having a 450 Rigby built. I have to admit that I don't know much (anything) about the 458AR, so it wasn't a factor in my decision process. 450 Rigby stamped brass is available from Jamison and Hornaber (sp?)- I have some of both and the brass quality is good. Superior Ammunition also loads a lot of different bullets for the 450 Rigby. In addition, you can blow out 416 Rigby brass (Norma and Hornaday) to use in your 450 Rigby. I have bought a bunch of 416 Rigby Hornaday brass for this purpose.

I think the 450 Rigby is a good choice if you want to shoot the longer 500 grain Barnes X bullets or 600 grain bullets.

MHCTX

Everything bigger in TX? Nah, just kidding. I very seldom slam a cartridge, all of them have a place for someone! I have a 510 Wells-11 lb Ruger M77. Damn big gun! Heavy, long-I will never in my life take it to the field as I won't carry the thing! Made it from a 416 Rigby Ruger, that did not shoot for crap! I know you have to have a pretty big action for that size cartridge, 450 Rigby. I don't see anything wrong with that, except for me I am tired of carrying those 10-11 lb rifles, with 24 inch tubes in the field all day!

The great thing about the 458 AR is that it fits in a standard action, powder capacity perfect for 20-22 inch barrels, burns very efficient, uses easy to get, cheaper brass, and has proper headstamped brass available too. I do not have one, but I imagine a Win M70 would come in at around 8-8.5 lbs, I would equip with 20 inch barrel. Now that don't sound like much, but 2-3 lbs makes a world of difference after about 2 hours. 4-5 inches shorter makes a world of difference in how the gun handles too! The 458 AR is capable of doing serious things with serious bullets--but a smaller package.

Another step downward is the 458 B&M--about a 1/4 inch shorter case, on WSM actions, with 18 inch barrels, and from 6.5-8 lbs depending on stock. This one now quite the powerhouse of the 458 AR, but still yet more than enough to do any job asked of it. Again headstamped brass available for it too.

Just smaller platforms which is the key for me these days.

I think you are probably correct concerning the 500 Barnes and the 600 gr bullets. Those are completely out for the 458 B&M--way too long for the action. Not sure about the AR, it might be close.

It never hurts to have more than one big bore, get going and build an AR. Jeffe can sort that out!


Michael

MHC -- wanna shoot the ARs soemtime soon?

Well to be totally honest I ended up with two 416 Rigby length mauser actions (Granite Mountain and a Satterlee), so one will stay a 416 Rigby and one will be turned into a 450 Rigby (the action has already made the tranformation).

jeffeosso, I would love to get together and shoot the ARs

let's work it out! We'll go shoot.. and you can even shoot my spartan

quote:

Originally posted by MHC_TX:
...and one will be turned into a 450 Rigby (the action has already made the tranformation).

MHC,

Consider the .470 Mbogo for that second action.

George

I second that.. the Mbogo is probably the best all around super round

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by MHC_TX:
...and one will be turned into a 450 Rigby (the action has already made the tranformation).

MHC,

Consider the .470 Mbogo for that second action.

George

I considered it(.470 Mbogo), but I had problems pronouncing it, it just didn't roll off my tongue like 450 R-I-G-B-Y did. Seriously, if I need more than a 450 Rigby then I'm not doing my part, besides the train has already left the station (have a barrel, dies, brass, bullets, plus the action now feeds "beer canned shaped" bullets, etc.).


Joel/AK,

I hope you got your question answered, because we kind of got off track.

No problem on going off track. I never used most of the calibers mentioned so its interesting.

I'm probably gonna go with the AR. its gonna be a spring project. The old lady said one project at a time and I am having a 358win made, work done one on a 30-06 and building an AR15 currently (thats close to one at a time , math was never my strong subject).

heres the action its going on.

that a m1carbine rear sight? i thought that would be a great one!

Let me know when you need the reamer and gages, I am compliments
jeffe

I voted for the .458AR as it can be chambered in 'regular' actions, unlike the full-sized Rigby cartridges.

George

Jeffe,

Its actually a wild west guns sight. Similiar to the ones they use on htere co-pilots. They also made some with a rem 870 contour (instead of the flat for the marlins).

It fit pretty good and I love the sight on my co-pilot.

Like I said, it wont be till this spring. I still have to pay for my 358W before I finish this one.