A) Would a 458 Lott be considered a "stopper"?
B) If not, which would be the easiest/cheapest to have built properly, feed, etc?

A) ------------------------------------------ (ten foot pole)



B) I cannot vote since I dont have one but I'd like to have a 500 AR/Mbogo or my 500 MAX a belted RUM to .500" basicly a 25 thou fatter 470 capstick....532 boltface and should get 3 down easy...least amount of gun mods on a standard 7mag donor. Just need to convert rum brass with Ed's expertise but this does not meet all of your criteria.

500 MAX...

You're not the only one worried about this turning into another one of "those" threads...

Admittedly, I could probably just wait until the big bore shoot, and see if my shoulder could hold up.

Would it help if the discussion was limited to
458 Lott (if effective) -- cheapest to load? The build would be easiest enough -- pretty much as RSM.
505 Gibbs -- I think this is the most expensive, to load, possibly to build, as well
500 A square
600 OK

460 Weatherby off the rack. No "Building" required. Cheap to load. Always feeds. Kills anything you can hit at hunting ranges. The rest are great but just more money and more variables in a "project gun".

Does a "stopper" start at 1/2" tube?

No building needed, just go buy an off the shelf 458 Lott in a brand you like and go from there. Another good alternative is see the thread on "500 A-2 on CZ 416 Rigby" or something like that. Don't worry Boomstick, yours and Rich's projects are on the books just running about two months behind! R.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodney H.{500Jeffery}:
No building needed, just go buy an off the shelf 458 Lott in a brand you like and go from there. Another good alternative is see the thread on "500 A-2 on CZ 416 Rigby" or something like that. Don't worry Boomstick, yours and Rich's projects are on the books just running about two months behind! R.

that may be, but it will be demo-ing for an arms manufacturer at the SHOT Show. Macifej's solids at 2200 actual fps or so should make an impressive show, and a round that just might fit in, say...an RSM?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

to answerr your question...

the 458 lott is a stopping rifle, and its better to just buy the cz, and send it and check to AHR for bedding, trigger, and safety.

now, as far as practicals? take a ruger and a 458 barrel, and bang you have a 458 AR, which can easily beat 2300fps..
jeffe

Using "easiest to build" as the criteria, I think a 416 Taylor or 416 Rem Mag are the easiest depending on which action size you start with. Second would be a 458 Win Mag but those can be bought off the shelf, just like the Lott. Lotts aren't hard to build but they can be challenging to make feed perfectly for a gunsmith that hasn't much experience with that sort of thing.

If you allow "obscure and easy", I would include the 400 H&H.

Stopper + cheapest/easiest = Buy an off the shelve Ruger RSM or CZ 550 Magnum in .458 Lott. It is that simple.

I think a stopper round is a 500 grain bullet at 2150 fps. The Lott meets that test and then some. Cheapest and easiest rarely go together in the same sentence with building something. And as for all the wildcat cartridges, I will leave that for others to wax eloquently on.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

I think a stopper round is a 500 grain bullet at 2150 fps.

I would refer to this as a minimum to hope to stop anything as opposed to a stopper.

With all these definitions of stoppers, I wonder how many have stopped or attempted to stop anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

I would refer to this as a minimum to hope to stop anything as opposed to a stopper.

Good correction.

The 458 lott is by far the most practicle powerful rifle based on available rifles, brass and bullets.

Now when you want more power and still somewhat practicle, the 500 A-sq is a definate notch up in power, and pretty easy to put together. When you get past the 1/2" mark, everything goes dramatically, harder to find bullets, much more expensive, same with brass, barrels et al.

.........I view a stopper maybe a little different than others ... Like Will says about how many have actually HAD to stop any thing ,,,,,,,,,,,The 416 and 458 have worked for me so far ......But I have a theory , that a 500 A-Sq. would stop a Cape Buffalo better with a 450 gr GS HV bullet @ 2750-2800 fps than it would a 600 gr bullet @ 2400 fps .......The bigger the hole the faster it will work and velocity helps make huge holes ....................Plus it depends on what you want to stop ....................And how close it is to YOU ..

If one considers "stoppers" to be 40's or better, the easiest to build would be something using a belted magnum case. This would include the 416 Taylor, the 425 Express, the 458WinMag, and 458 Lott. Of this group, the easiest to feed would be the 458's because they are factory loaded.

There is a great deal of interest in the 458Lott, but I was working up loads for a new 458WM yesterday. With 400gr bullets @ 2250fps, this 9.5pound rifle generated right at 46 pounds of recoil. This is stout, right at my personal limit. A 500gr load at 2150fps would increase the recoil to 50 pounds.

I can only hope that different powder will result in a longer recoil pulse because 50 pounds of this is about five pounds more than I can handle. I am going to have to consider as an alternative some of the Barnes 450gr bullets.

I mention this because attaining serious velocity with a 458WM doesn't seem to be a problem. I question my need for a Lott. Kudude

Thank Ya'll for the help. I've been looking for something to carry along while some buddies/family members hunt DG -- I prefer fly fishing, and birds, but need something to tote along in case one of them does something stupid... (I like shooting more than they do, esp. big bores.) Does anyone know off-hand about what MV a Federal 510 gr. 458 win mag has? (I need to plug it into a recoil calculator. Those don't bother me too much out of my Mark X -- which is about... 8.5#? maybe lighter. I think I might be able to tolerate shooting an RSM in a Lott.)

Ag, get the RSM, and a Pachmyer Decelerator pad, and a bit of practice. Think you will like it better than the MkX/Winnie.

Keith

The NEED of a STOPPER and a low recoil tolerance do NOT go hand in hand ......If you go with a lighter bullet the recoil is lower .......A 350 gr Barnes TSX or X bullet from the 458 Win mag @ 2500 fps , which it easily does will do a faster jod than a 500 gr bullet @ 2100 fps if you are lucky with factory loaded ammo ........I chronographed quite a bit of factory 458 win ammo a few years ago and 2050 was the best I got on average .............Any belted M77 mk 2 action will feed 458 win mag flawlessly IME and is just a barrel job away ...........Barrel ,w/ 2nd recoil lug , muzzle brake and a scout scope is all you need ............If you are talking ,,Your the very last resort ,,,,,,,50 cal,s on up are stoppers ....

Aglifter,

The recoil of a factory 500gr 458WM load in a 8.5pounds rifle will be about 55 pounds. Kudude

The easiest and cheapest way to a serious stopper is a 458 Win.

Phil:

X2

With a 500 grain bullet at 2,050 the 458 Win is a SERIOUS stopper on elephant. At 2,150 it is even better. The history is there to prove that this is correct. Thousands of elephants have been stopped by the 458 Win at 2,050 and it along with the Winchester solids have an outstanding reputation among Zim Phs. Esp. those that were involved with the culling operations where they provoked charges to get the adult eles down first. It wasn't until some cartridges produced radically low velocities that it's reputation was questioned. That will not happen with good hand-loads.


465H&H

A "stopper" is a bullet in the right spot, an non stopper is a bullet in the wrong spot..

The 416 Rem is the easiest of the factory rounds IMO, and its a good choice..The 458 Lott is also a good choice if you can shoot it well.

Amazing how some feel so confident with a huge big bore, like it makes up for poor shooting, well it doesn't..but if it gives one that needed confidence then its a good thing..I feel confident in my shooting ability and am happy with a 40 caliber on anything as long as I have a proper bullet in the the spout.

I believe lots of animals were killed after WW2 with 30-06 bolt actions firing surplus fmj & armor piercing ammo left behind by the allied forces.