I would like to purchase a 45-70 pump action that is beefed up to hold 55,000 cup so a 400 grain bullet can be pushed to 4,000 ft-lbs. To my knowledge no one manufactures one. It could easily hold 6 rounds in the bottom and one in the chamber. Lever actions are not my cup of tea, you try to Jack it off your shoulder every time you cycle it. 38 or 40 inches overall length would be good. A best bush gun never built to my knowledge.

There is a rare large frame colt lightning pump action in 45-70
Problem is cases were not meant for high pressure.
I would love it if someone remade these.

Sounds like a job for Doug Turnbull

From your typing to Doug's eyes
I wish

Ecellent project! I can see that gun in 375 JDJ,416 JDJ etc also.

quote:

Lever actions are not my cup of tea, you try to Jack it off your shoulder every time you cycle it.

You have watched too many bad western. THAT IS NOT how a lever action rifle is handeled.

If YOU want this beast then learn how to MAKE it. (There is a reason that no one make this thing, no market share)

A better choise of cal would be 458 2", or 458WM, loaded with 400gr bullets. In a bolt gun, and yes you can cycle the bolt with the butt stock on your shoulder. You can even find one on the shelves at many gunstores, today.

Keith

Seems like I heard of a Rem. pump rebarreled to some .375 Whelen or such cartridge. Worked out to being the same as a 375H&H, just 75 yds shorter range ballistics.

Krieghoff is supposedly making the Semprio in 416 Ruger....not a tube fed. If your pockets are deep enough, they may turn out a 45/70 for you.

I can think of quite a few reasons why it would NOT be a good idea and a few why it would, but I also think the 450 Marlin, 458 American and 458 WM would be much better...that's NOT dissing the 45-70 cartridge per se, I have a 45-120 I shoot 45-70's in, I'm saying that HUGE RIM causes a bunch of problems.

I built a 458 American on a SMLE receiver but because of the boltface and headspacing I can also shoot 45-70,90 and 100 in it single shot...it just won't feed 45-70's worth a sh** from the magazine...AND I have a 458 American swithch barrel for my Marlin Levergun...just rechambered the OEM 45-70 barrel.

Keith said it...NO MARKET in todays world

I don't have any problems cycling my leverguns from my shoulder any more than cycling a bolt gun from my shoulder...it just takes practice.

You can take a Rem 760/7600 up to 400 Whelen/ 400 Hawk and still have enough shoulder to work with nothing but a rebarrel and maybe some work on the clip and feed ramp. I think they are both good ideas, but wouldn't buy/build a belted mag one even if a receiver were available, why bother with a pump when auto's are available.

There are probably more of those larger bored pumps floating around out there than forums indicate. Pumps are the red-headed, boss-tid step children of the shooting world...or maybe as Rodney said, "They get no respect".

Besides you can make a 12/20 ga pump shotgun do the same job with slug/sabot reloads a whole lot easier and cheaper.

Maybe your idea is just waiting in the wings for the right time to happen...who knows WHAT will tickle the collective gonads of the hunting public...OR shrivel them up.

Luck

i'll do it...
i'll need 5 years and 2.875 million in prototyping, RD, licensing, insurance, and other needs for creating a new action, getting it past the lawyers, and an ATF's manf. license.

of couse, you could get a browning pump rifle in 300 win and rebarrel to 458 winmag ..

yep, it aint 45/70 .. but its likely to be 2.872 cheaper than custom building a 45/70 pump rifle that can handle higher than saami rounds...

i could do it for you .. you can get exactly what you want... but it will cost, as there's unlikely to be a market for 10 of them, in the entire world

One of Turnbull's 50-110 Model 1886s would be my solution to a problem I don't have...at least not yet!

The BPR probably would be a good one but with the same problem as the rest of the aluminum framed rifles...trying to get the barrel off without tweaking something. Not too many on the auction sites either.

Might do better with an older steel framed BAR or one of the newer take down model BLR or BAR.

I would sure like to talk to someone that has ACTUALLY rebarreled an aluminum solid frame BAR/BLR...OR someone who has ACTUALLY rebarreled/rebored an aluminum framed takedown barrel.

My BLR 450 Marlin does much better at the higher pressure levels it is capable of.

Luck

Scot Towner used to make a pump rifle in 500 S&W, which was bought by Predator Tactical, improved, and then jacked up in price to the point that it disappeared. If you contact Predator Tactical, they may be able to make one in 45-70 if they are still making the PT500.

Just use your Heym .500NE double.

Why bother with a pump-action .45-70 when you have two quick shots with a more powerful cartridge?

George

I don't think there is any question that a double or an auto might be a more effective and quicker shooter, but the question was about a pump 45-70.

I wouldn't own one in 45-70 even if they were available...BUT...I just might think hard about a 450 Marlin, 458 American or 458 WM OR a 50 cal somn-sumn...if the receiver was rated at the full load potential of the 458 WM.

The question as to whether a bolt gun or a lever gun are quicker to cycle is full of personal bias as is the question as to which of the three could be reloaded after running dry, could get the juices and spit flowing.

Basically, it's a question of desire...desire for a pump, a bolt gun, a double or just something different.

I'm still looking for someone who has actually done a BAR in 458 WM...now that would be a nice toy.

Luck

Well, he referred to the 'best brush gun', so a .500NE double would fit that bill, right?

Didn't bigdoggy700 have a BAR .458M built?

George

Google Mic McPherson or look here:

http://www.levergun.com/main_index.htm

Can't argue with that, George...EXCEPT for price...I can build about a dozen guns or 3-5 times that number of chambered barrels for the price of one good double.

I gotta chase Bigdoggy down and see who and how it was done. I've ran across several older steel framed BAR with very attractive prices.

Mic McPherson DOES have a very nice levergun but WAY beyond my price range. He basically uses higher pressure rated barrel steel, opens up the receiver threads a skosh and puts that steel back into larger, re-configured barrel threads, and used 50 AE and 50/110 cases.

A special reamer/cutter is used for the receiver, plus a few other odds and ends to strengthen the weaker points on the 1895 Marlin...he also does some great work with the 1894 receiver.

I think a WSM rimless case would work just as well as the rimmed 50/110 case and have a slight shoulder, similar length and similar ballistics for use even in a short action 325 WSM BAR/BLR receiver. Maybe a rebarrel on the take down version would work?

That would cover the pump, lever AND auto spectrum...should make EVERYONE happy....No??

Hummmm...hard to keep people happy isn't it.

ADDED...just designed a nice case on a trimmed RUM case...45/50 cal 2.25-2.3" long and 2.65" COAL, ~100gr H2O that would work by reboring/rechambering a 450M BLR. That adds about 20 gr H2O/20% volume.

Luck

In regards to having to reload quickly I don't think that should be an issue with 7 rounds cycled through a souped up 45-70 and I did put a bear down at close range with a defender, it seems to lack that 500 ft a second for reliable penetration and bone crushing of a bear, others may have a different view point and before I used the defender when it was required I would have agreed. MY 500ne is not for bouncing around in a quad box (certainly would do the job on anything). One of the other cartridges would be fine too; my thought is if a lever gun works so well with the 45-70 and a tube feed it should work fine in a pump. 4000 ft-lbs is plenty of punch for any North American bear or whatever you can find that bites or bunts. Sure be fun on pigs out of a chopper as they are doing in Texas. Thanks for the input gentlemen, if I had too much money there would certainly be one of them made, I need the funds for Afirca - save me and elephant and a cape buff or two...

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Well, he referred to the 'best brush gun', so a .500NE double would fit that bill, right?

Didn't bigdoggy700 have a BAR .458M built?

George

Exactly, or just get a new Heym in 450/400 3"....

Or for a light weight handy rifle, a Heym 26B O/U in 9,3x74R.

I STILL can't afford a double rifle...how about a cheap 12/20 ga, brass cased, brass slugged, CZ coach gun, jacked as far as the pressure will allow....?? I could buy a dozen or more of those and have perfectyly good "brush guns" equal to or better than those mentioned doubles.

Basically, I see this as the same old arguments...controlled vs pushfeed, lever vs bolt, bolt vs double, pump vs auto vs bolt vs double etc...just wearing different clothes.

I see nothing wrong with the 45-70 cartridge in single shot rifles and loaded as high a pressure as the receiver is designed for...the rim was designed for specific headspacing requirements for straight walled cartridge, WAY the heck back in time...but time has changed in new and better(??) ways.

In todays world there are many MUCH better cases and available cartridges/cases...the 450 Marlin and the WSM case as examples, that work much better, I think, in a pump, auto and leverguns.

I have tons of fun with my 45-120 H&R/NEF 30" BC shooting the various length cases. I really enjoy shooting my SMLE and Marlin 458 Americans AND BLR 450 Marlin...maybe someday I will add the 450 Yukon to the collection...or my 45 Makatak Jr...45 cal Rigby shortened for use in a SA action...and who knows I might get slick and find a BPR to convert to a 510 Makatak or 50 Makatak Jr.

I tend to try to find the easiest way to get what I want...and rimmed cartridges ar NOT all that easy when it comes to some receiver platforms and feeding from a mag...I finally gave up trying to get a 45-70 to feed well in my SMLE and went with the belted case. I can still shoot 45-70 and 45-90 length cases in the SMLE but only single feed...the magazine has 7 rounds down and feeds fine.

You still find a few old and modern rimmed cartdridges around, but the rims are not all that large in relation to the case base. still suffer from "rim hangup" and there are rimmless versions that work better from the magazine.

All shooters suffer from the disease of "nostalgia"...and it is highly contageous and genetically passed on... ...isn't it wonderful...

Luck

George, it is a BAR converted to a 458 lott. Still getting the 6 shot magazine made for it. We have a 3 shot one working, but the 6 shot one is giving him fits. Lots of tweaking gong on for the proper fit.I will post pics as soon as complete. Hopefully about 2 more weeks, but I have been waiting a really long time for this gun.

With proper lever rifle shooting technique, the rifle does not come off your shoulder.

The off hand presses the rifle into your shoulder HARD, while the shooting hand works the lever.

I am not a Lever Rifle Freek, but even I can make my 1895 in 405 sound like a machine gun...

What NE 450 no 2 said works for my Winchester M1892 .357, M1895 .405, and M1886 .45-90.

Well, if not a machine gun, at least a BAR.

"At least a BAR"...

That works for me.

quote:

I would like to purchase a 45-70 pump action that is beefed up to hold 55,000 cup so a 400 grain bullet can be pushed to 4,000 ft-lbs. To my knowledge no one manufactures one. It could easily hold 6 rounds in the bottom and one in the chamber. Lever actions are not my cup of tea, you try to Jack it off your shoulder every time you cycle it. 38 or 40 inches overall length would be good. A best bush gun never built to my knowledge.

I remember reading something about a " M1 Garand .458 Conversion ".. HMMM ?

Did a gooogle search:

Tony Shoulder Fires the .458 Win Mag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKXCu5oXgFY

" A McCann Industries converted M1 Garand that now fires the .458 Winchester Belted Magnum. A beautiful, very manageable rifle that will take any game animal walking, with very manageable and slow recoil due to an excellent muzzle brake and a cylinder of mercury in the butt stock.Thanks for the free shots, guys! What a ton of fun.
http://www.mccannindustries.com/ "

PAPI

The Krieghoff Semprio Slide Action Big Game Rifle...odd because the pump works opposite American pumps, but an amazing rifle....handled one recently.



http://www.krieghoff.com/ki/in...le&id=365&Itemid=146

I think it would be cheaper to rebarrel and chamber a Rem. 760 or 7600 to a 9.3x62, shoot 320 gr. bullets at near 2400 FPS and call it good..

But I wonder if the 760 or 7600 Reminton would handle the 416 Ruger case? I doubt it but its worth looking into..I recall someone telling of a 7600 conversion to a .458 Win. but don't know if it was a legitamate conversation..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I think it would be cheaper to rebarrel and chamber a Rem. 760 or 7600 to a 9.3x62, shoot 320 gr. bullets at near 2400 FPS and call it good..

But I wonder if the 760 or 7600 Reminton would handle the 416 Ruger case? I doubt it but its worth looking into..I recall someone telling of a 7600 conversion to a .458 Win. but don't know if it was a legitamate conversation..

Thats what I was thinking also or like some one else said the browning pump in 458 or 450 marlin. Or how about 458 ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
I STILL can't afford a double rifle...

Luck

This Russian one is fairly affordable ~$800. It has lawyer-ese verbiage on the pressure ratings, but is also offered in 30-06.

USSG Baikal

HUMMMMMM....now THAT might work in either cal. Not bad looking either...wonder if the auto safety could be fiddled...never liked auto safeties.

I gotta check this out more thoroughly.

Thanks

Luck

I've been looking at a CZ OU 20 ga for use with 3" brass cases and 600-900gr bullets...depending on how my H&R 620 HellBoy works out I might just pick one up.

The chamber walls are fairly thick...maybe by reaming out the chokes and keeping the pressure within reason a very stout load could be worked up...might not be a 600 NE, but a 2 oz load of lead sure would make anything it hit very sick.

Luck