What would be the best bolt action big bore platform for a pre 1899 Federal Law exemption status? Here are some facts and a list.
http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html
Peruvian Mauser maybe?
It's funny that these guns sporterized and rechambered in modern carts are not considered firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Peruvian Mauser maybe?

Which Peruvians are pre 1899?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
It's funny that these guns sporterized and rechambered in modern carts are not considered firearms.

I also think it is "funny". I know that The Sportsman's Guide sold sporterized pre 1899 M98 rifles and they claimed that they would mail them to you directly.

I thought Jeffe(or some other KIA ) said the feds closed them down.

I'm not sure what serial numbers but Peruvians were on the list.

I would never consider any of them for anything other than a black powder big bore. The composition of steel was a guess way back when and heat treating was a carburization/ case hardening process akin to black magic. I've seem M98's that have had their receiver lugs set back and sheared off bolt lugs with magnum conversions with relatively low bolt thrust. Boomie- Go Lie down till this idea goes away! -Rob

So heat treating the actions would do no good?

you would need to get the alloy analyzed and determine exactly what composition it is, then try and find out exactly what heat treating processes will harden it and temper it. That takes time and money and someone with exactly the right equipment.
Just " heat treating" it might in fact make it worse.
I've been making custom knives now from a variety of metals whose composition is absolutely known and certified. I am set up to do heat treating with a digital furnace and a tempering oven.
Its not hard to do, but you must know exactly what the metal is. God only knows what they made those early guns out of. -Rob

Danish Krag in 450 Marlin.
Might be fun or I might loose half my face...lol

Cheers, John

I like the 1895 Mausers made by Ludwig Loewe of Berlin and DWM. They were very, very well made and would be my first choice. Some people recommend the 1893 Turkish Mausers made by Oberndorf because they were supposedly re-heat treated in the 1930s for the 8x57 cartridge. Either way I would chamber a cartridge suitable for the original action and pressure.

The 9.3x57 cartridge would be a good choice and stays within the pressure limits the action was designed for. Reloading components are easy to find. Ammo is available from Norma in 232gr and 285gr loads.

The .450 Marlin operates at similar pressures.

Is the reason for this simply to bypass the need to Register a rifle? While I'm certainly no fan of registration, this seems like a poor idea to get around it. THOSE OLD GUNS AND IN PARTICULAR KRAGS, were known to have strength problems and the experiments with them in 30-03/30-06 came to a rapid halt. If it could not handle a 30-06 I'd not be excited about shooting one in any caliber that had a pressure curve different than the 30-40 Krag.
If you must shoot the old iron, just leave em in the caliber they were designed for. You'll be happy you did. If you want a big bore on the cheap, buy a CZ550. -Rob

once more I find myself in agreement with what RGB has said. Scary, huh?

The metallurgy of the Mauser 95's made pre-'99 at Loewe is pretty well known, and they are (generally) hell for stout. Which is NOT AT ALL the same thing as saying that I would personally shoot one in anything over .308 with modern powder.

I applaud the idea of "not a firearm" but modern, major calibers do not strike me as a good idea.

Good hunting.

Maybe a 35 Remington rebarrel
Factory ammo is SAAMI 37k psi.
Use a long throat.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
I thought Jeffe(or some other KIA ) said the feds closed them down.

not me, and what's a kia?

I'm not endorsing putting a really hot cartridge in a Danish Krag but they were chambered for 6.5x55.
They are also a much stronger design than the American Krag as the bolt handle was an active locking lug and not just a safety lug.
Personaly, I see it as a novelty and nothing you would want to push hard.
Go buy a modern gun for that.

Cheers, John

Does anyone know the strength of pre 1899 1895 Winchesters? I see it was loaded with the likes of the 38-72 and 40-72 but those were black powder. I also see it in the 30 US Army AKA 30-40 Krag and that was smokeless obviously.

The 1895 was also chambered for the famous .405 winchester. Very pricey guns these days! The modern ones made a few years ago by winchester/ Browning were made of modern steels, but are still 40-43KPSI guns. Some idiots have loaded them to match 450-400 levels and supposedly survived. I've seen one that was loose as a goose after a box of hot loads. I keep mine running around 38KPSI with 410 gr bullets and its still tight. If I remember correctly, C. Bodington took one to OZ to hunt Water Buff with his daughter and it did pretty well. Probably will penetrate better than a .45-70 due to better BC.
I have an encore in .405 win that I throated to load the bullets out .3 inches longer than standard. With the right powders it will match a 450-400. i.e 410 gr bullet at 2150 fps. Take two barrels to africa ( 30-06 and .405) in a briefcase and hunt anything that walks.
Don't even think about firing a full load 30-06 in an original one marked 30 US army. Reduced loads are fine.

So maybe a rebarrel of a pre 1889 Win 1895 lever gun in 405 win and light 30-06?
I think a pre 1899 Mauser in 35 Remington is still a good idea too.

Boomie,

if you would stick with 44K Psi loads the M1889 Danish Krag is, as stated, stronger than our Krags.

I traded into a very nice one this summer in 8x58R. When I got to looking seriously at the cartridge, I found out it is the 45-90 WCF case necked down to 8mm. Perhaps one of those rifles would fit your plans...?

Rich

Awesome info Rich.
I was ignorant of such a case but just started reading about it. Seems like the Danish version could take factory 45-90 ammo. Has anyone rebarreled these for the 45-90?
Some good info listed here http://dutchman.rebooty.com/GB8x58RD.html

I have seen one in 45/70 but not 45/90.
It did seem to have a lot of wasted space in the mag.
I did see an American Krag on Gunbroker once that was in 405 Win. I would not have gone there. Thats a little to hot for the Springfield in my opinion. I would have tried a 10.3x60R instead (slightly larger case)if I wanted a 40, and then I would have used a Danish action.
The Vikings have got some realy nice hunting rounds that I've never heard of. I need to get out more.

Cheers, John

45-90 was chambered in the 1886 Winchester as was the .50-110. There are good accounts of that cartridge doing well in Africa even on Buff. saw an original this weekend with a $35k price tag. Find a original .33 win and re-barrel. now that's a non-registerable old timer with real oomph!-Rob

I have a 50/110 and with Benchmark you can load 525gr. gas checked bullet to 2100fps. It is a real crusher.

Blake

30 US Army is 30-40 and 30 Gov't is 30-06; They did make both in 1895 Wins.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
So maybe a rebarrel of a pre 1889 Win 1895 lever gun in 405 win and light 30-06?
I think a pre 1899 Mauser in 35 Remington is still a good idea too.

Why all the fuss on pre 98s just buy a older well use rifle on the 2nd hand market.

Thats been through 2 or 3 owners or an mil surplus bring home or anything made before 1968 most likely has no records on them.

Boomie- I gotta agree. Go Lie down and wait for this idea to go away. -Rob

Rob is right,
Its fun to talk about it and speculate but I would never do this.

Cheers, John