according to taylor, the 416 is a medium

Guys, let me splain you sumptin... if you can make a 300 yard iron shighted shot at game, 100FPS won't make a bit of difference

458 lott, fellas, is the ONLY commonly available that can shoot another caliber safely. As I understand it, the 458 win is pretty darn common in africa, and its the only big bore i've ever seen at any walmart here in the states

If you want to shoot a 400gr bullet, it will go faster than a 416 rem

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
The .416 Remington is a fantastic cartridge. I had one and loved it but, like my beloved 8mm Remington Magnum, the .416 Remington is basically moribund. It is only available from the Remington custom shop and I an unaware of any factory CRF guns available in that caliber.

Gumboot and Mrxlema are right about the Lott. It is very practical. However, most guys get them in either a CZ or a Ruger Safari Magnum. Both of those actions will accommodate much larger cartridges. If you can easily accommodate a .450 Rigby which will give you more velocity at CONSIDERABLY LOWER PRESSURE, why not get the bigger cartridge? Putting a Lott in a CZ or a Ruger is a bit like putting a pinto motor in a Mustang GT!

Dave

I don't know how much bigger the 450 Rigby case is,but the magazine-action space in my Ruger is really tight with the Lott and is just perfect with the CZ.

With the 458 Lott you can get into the 6000 Ft LB area. I don't know if the 450 Dakota can do that or not. The lott is one powerful Rifle.

THe dakota as essentally a 460 wbby/450 rigby .. it can go 2500, not 2300 fps, if loaded to the same pressure

shoo-thataway
HUH? wow, you might take you calipers to the actions you are talking about.. but can take teh 505 gibbs and 416 rigby... "tight" .. length? width? holding 5 or holding 6 down?

If I wanted a big bore bolt with the calibers you suggested it would be the 450 Rigby nostalgia, bullets, brass, it's going to be a African classic, it already is with it's parent being the 416 Rigby. I like the Lott but I would build a 458 Watts before I would build another 458 Lott.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
If I wanted a big bore bolt with the calibers you suggested it would be the 450 Rigby nostalgia, bullets, brass, it's going to be a African classic, it already is with it's parent being the 416 Rigby. I like the Lott but I would build a 458 Watts before I would build another 458 Lott.

Nostalgia? The parent case carries with it nostalgia, but the .450 is practically a newborn........JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
If I wanted a big bore bolt with the calibers you suggested it would be the 450 Rigby nostalgia, bullets, brass, it's going to be a African classic, it already is with it's parent being the 416 Rigby. I like the Lott but I would build a 458 Watts before I would build another 458 Lott.

450 rigby rimless was "inventeD" in 1996 ...
I had a GOOD LAUGH at CZ's expense over that.

Another vote for the 458 lott for the most practical of the big bores. Readily available guns, ammo and the ability to use 458 win mag in a pinch. 500's @ 2300 are enough to get anyones attention, and they work on game, or so I've been told.

If you want a jump up in power, 500 A-sq with a long throat and fast twist barrel. You can load it between 500 linebaugh pistol levels with cast plinker loads, and 2/3 the velocity of a 50 bmg, but burning 1/2 the powder and in a rifle 1/3 the weight. And there are 530-600 gr hunting bullets at 2200-2500 fps for any and all big game.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Another vote for the 458 lott for the most practical of the big bores. Readily available guns, ammo and the ability to use 458 win mag in a pinch. 500's @ 2300 are enough to get anyones attention, and they work on game, or so I've been told.

If you want a jump up in power, 500 A-sq with a long throat and fast twist barrel. You can load it between 500 linebaugh pistol levels with cast plinker loads, and 2/3 3/4 the velocity of a 50 bmg, but burning 1/2 the powder and in a rifle 1/3 the weight. And there are 530-600 gr hunting bullets at 2200-2500 fps for any and all big game.

Note correction of "2/3" to "3/4" above, and ditto the rest.


The ultimate, ready for any pinch 3-rifle battery:

375WBY
458Lott
500A2

If you can only take two:

458Lott
375Wby

You can feed those with any old 458WinMag or 375H&H ammo found lying around camp or in the witchdoctor's possibles bag.

RIP, it you can only take two:

9.3X62
.450 Dakota

Dave

Dave,
I've got one each of 9.3x62 and 450 Dakota, and that would indeed be a great pair. Mine are a CZ 550 Medium FS and a Magnum Mauser 98 by Prechtl, respectively.

However, you'd be much better off "in a pinch"
with the .375WBY and .458LOTT.
Thinking utmost practicality here.
If your ammo did not arrive, you could probably find 9.3x62 ammo, but 450 Dakota?

A .375 H&H cartridge fired in a .375Wby chamber is still a better killer than the not-quite-legal-everywhere 9.3x62.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
according to taylor, the 416 is a medium

According to British gun makers the 416 is a medium bore.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Dave,
I've got one each of 9.3x62 and 450 Dakota, and that would indeed be a great pair. Mine are a CZ 550 Medium FS and a Magnum Mauser 98 by Prechtl, respectively.

However, you'd be much better off "in a pinch"
with the .375WBY and .458LOTT.
Thinking utmost practicality here.
If your ammo did not arrive, you could probably find 9.3x62 ammo, but 450 Dakota?

A .375 H&H cartridge fired in a .375Wby chamber is still a better killer than the not-quite-legal-everywhere 9.3x62.

RIP, everyone talks about lost ammo. Two questions. Can you travel with ammo in the same case as your rifles? Can you send ammo ahead?

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
RIP, everyone talks about lost ammo. Two questions. Can you travel with ammo in the same case as your rifles? Can you send ammo ahead?
Dave

Good question.

Maybe we can get some of our African/Alaska/etc guys to give us the straight poop on lost ammo, and what to do...

When I went to Africa or Alaska in the past, it was specified that ammo had to be in luggage separate from the guncase.

I hear things stated differently lately, sometimes one way, sometimes another. Seems to depend on the airline in other countries, or latest TSA whim.

I am sure the latest will be here shortly.

1) .375 H&H - for elk, moose, eland, bears and cats....great all arounder....bullet selection....classic cartridge with ample power, great feeding and comparatively light recoil....affordable

2) .458 Lott - for giant bears and all buffalo....great do-all dgr cartridge....bullet selection....affordable

3) .500 A-Square - for buff, rhino, hippo and ele....versatile....great stopping power for a rifle of managable weight....great bullet and brass selection for it's power/caliber class....comparatively affordable (I should have one by the end of 2008. The $$$$ is almost there and the plans are already laid out.)

I can hardly wait until I am a member of the .500+ rifle club! )

I've been planning this one for a while but it's been a tough year, financially speaking. All in good time!

I love my 9.3X62 but it is definetely a medium bore. A .404 Jeff is my idea of a "small" big bore

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
according to taylor, the 416 is a medium

According to British gun makers the 416 is a medium bore.

Actually he categorized it as a "large medium bore" to distinguish it as having more power than the average medium bore.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by akalinin:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Besides .458 Lotts are a dime a dozen and basically boring.-Rob

Practical - adjective
1) adapted or designed for actual use; useful:
2) engaged or experienced in actual practice or work:
3) capable of or suitable to being used or put into effect; useful:
4) Level-headed, efficient, and unspeculative.
5) Guided by practical experience and observation rather than theory;

Example: "Shit, the airlines lost my luggage. Where the hell am I going to find ammo for my 500a2 in Bwanaville, Africa? I wish I had brought something more practical.."


As cool as the 500 a2 is (and I wish I had one), the 458 Lott fits the definition of 'practical'.

LOL!!!!!

Good point! When I get the chance to take the .500 A2 to Africa, I will definately be carrying my .375 H&H as well. The .375 may not be the ele-thumper that the .500 is but it will do the job if I do mine. IMO, the combination of a .375 (for game up to eland in size) and a .500 A2 for the really nasty stuff is near perfect.

That said, I love my .458 Lott. It is the most practical cartridge that I think of as a stopper.

.458 Lott/.458 Winchester

Hmm- Last time I travelled to Africa I split my ammo up into 4 lots and some of it was even in with the gun( Airline regs allowed it). Hard to lose all of it at once and if I lost the gun then I'd be SOL anyway.
Practical? If you can shoot a lott well you can shoot a .500a2
Cartridge availability- Ok the Lott is a factory round and you have to handload a .500a2
Fun Factor- .500a2 by a mile!
Shootability- No real difference -If you can shoot a lott well you can shoot a .500s2 just as well.
Results on game- .500a2 by a mile.Bigger bore usually means BIGGER HOLE and dead quicker!

Finally, just when did we get Practical about big bores? If you want practicle the winner is a .375 H&H. Maybe we need to form a committe and take a vote?
-Rob

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Hmm- Last time I travelled to Africa I split my ammo up into 4 lots and some of it was even in with the gun( Airline regs allowed it). Hard to lose all of it at once and if I lost the gun then I'd be SOL anyway.
Practical? If you can shoot a lott well you can shoot a .500a2
Cartridge availability- Ok the Lott is a factory round and you have to handload a .500a2
Fun Factor- .500a2 by a mile!
Shootability- No real difference -If you can shoot a lott well you can shoot a .500s2 just as well.
Results on game- .500a2 by a mile.Bigger bore usually means BIGGER HOLE and dead quicker!

Finally, just when did we get Practical about big bores? If you want practicle the winner is a .375 H&H. Maybe we need to form a committe and take a vote?

Rob, this is a bit off the topic at hand but I was wondering if you or anyone else here has had much use with the .50 cal BMG Barnes TSX (647 gr. I think it is) bullet in the A2. If so, how did it go? I still haven't got my .500 A2 yet but I should have it by the end of the year and I know it'll be a blast in more ways than one!

If things go well, I hope to add a .600 OK next year.....and hopefully a .416 Ruger if it comes out as a factory round.....and no, practicality isn't the reason one goes looking for big bores but in my case , unfortunately, it does play at least SOME role.....besides, that's the topic of this thread isn't it???

The .458 Lott isn't the most exciting caliber out there but it's about the most power cartridge that most people can buy over the counter and HALFWAY afford to shoot. I think it's a pretty good choice for the guy who will only own one big bore. I pray that isn't the case for me though. Hopefully, I'm just getting warmed up!!!!

SRshooter- Feel free to call me or email when you get ready for your .600Ok. Always happy to help guys get theirs going. Once you shoot one I guarantee you that a .458 Lott will bore you afterwards. Oh the Lott is a good round I'll agree to that anyday but its still boring. I tried the barnes bullets in the .500a2 and really didnt see any big difference other than cost over 647 gr military pulls out to 2-300yrds. Now thats some cheap big bore shooting. I used to get pulls for under .50/bullet. I shot more military pulls in my .500a2 than anything else. I still say if you can shoot a lott you can shoot a .500a2.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
IMNSHO, the 470 Mbogo is the BEST all around big bore cart.

I agree, and you are right it is not the most practical.

I vote for the 458 Lott for most practical as well.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
(That bannana just cracks me up)

I prefer this one...





Cheers,
Canuck

Here is my new Lott.I can't wait to shoot it.The Lott is extremely powerfull within 50 yds with the 500gr bullet.This is not a good picture,but trust me,the wood is beautiful.It's a well balanced ,quick pointing rifle,that feeds my cartridges.I really like it because it has low recoil.[URL= ]New Lott[/URL]

Dang Shootaway, you keep teasin' us with that Molson!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
SRshooter- Feel free to call me or email when you get ready for your .600Ok. Always happy to help guys get theirs going. Once you shoot one I guarantee you that a .458 Lott will bore you afterwards. Oh the Lott is a good round I'll agree to that anyday but its still boring. I tried the barnes bullets in the .500a2 and really didnt see any big difference other than cost over 647 gr military pulls out to 2-300yrds. Now thats some cheap big bore shooting. I used to get pulls for under .50/bullet. I shot more military pulls in my .500a2 than anything else. I still say if you can shoot a lott you can shoot a .500a2.-Rob

Rob, I'm doing the .500 A2 on the CZ 550 Safari .416 Rigby action (McGowen is the gunsmith). Is this the best way to get a .600 OK too? Who should I get to do my barrel and gunsmithing on the .600 OK? McGowen doesn't do this caliber or I'd probably use him.

My .500 A2 is going to cost less than $2000 including free bore, barrel band sling, xs ghost ring sights, and Leupold 2.5X Scout Scope with QR rings, and all the feeding/smithing issues....doing the stock work myself using a McMillan synthetic.

I will probably do the .600 OK in similar fashion but will add some lead to the stock for a little additional weight and maybe some kind of brake. I'm hoping I can get a very servicable rifle for under $3000 but I don't want to skimp on quality. I don't want my .500 A2 or .600 OK to be fancy but they must be reliable!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
according to taylor, the 416 is a medium

Guys, let me splain you sumptin... if you can make a 300 yard iron shighted shot at game, 100FPS won't make a bit of difference

458 lott, fellas, is the ONLY commonly available that can shoot another caliber safely. As I understand it, the 458 win is pretty darn common in africa, and its the only big bore i've ever seen at any walmart here in the states

If you want to shoot a 400gr bullet, it will go faster than a 416 rem

Well said.

Here is a group I shot today with the 500gr TBBC bullet and H4895.This is at 100yds,with iron sights and low light.This is a good group because TBBC bullets are not the most accurate bullets out there.I tightened some stock screws a bit after the first shot. Next time out,I will shoot it at 200yds.Notice how the fourth shot went out of the group because the copper accumulating in the bore.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is a group I shot today with the 500gr TBBC bullet and H4895.This is at 100yds,with iron sights and low light.This is a good group because TBBC bullets are not the most accurate bullets out there.I tightened some stock screws a bit after the first shot. Next time out,I will shoot it at 200yds.Notice how the fourth shot went out of the group because the copper accumulating in the bore.

Perty good shootin' bro!

I need to practice up a bit with the old irons myself, though I do shoot quite a bit with iron sighted handguns.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
according to taylor, the 416 is a medium

Guys, let me splain you sumptin... if you can make a 300 yard iron shighted shot at game, 100FPS won't make a bit of difference

458 lott, fellas, is the ONLY commonly available that can shoot another caliber safely. As I understand it, the 458 win is pretty darn common in africa, and its the only big bore i've ever seen at any walmart here in the states

If you want to shoot a 400gr bullet, it will go faster than a 416 rem

You know, at the risk of being scorned with a bullwhip, tarred & feathered, and ultimately being shunned by big bore lovers everywhere....I must admit that I've always liked the .458 Winchester Magnum and frequently shoot winnie loads in my .458 Lott. I know that the .458 Winchester isn't the coolest or most destructive big bore cartridge and imo the .458 Lott is a better dgr cartridge but with modern powders and bullets the old FOUR-FIVE-EIGHT can do the job and like the super old .45-70, it is an effecient cartridge that will put big animals down and food on the table with little blood-shot meat. I've always had a weakness for straight-walled cases I think mostly because they squeeze all the power and bullet diameter/weight possible from their given length of case. A good 500 gr. bullet of .458 caliber at 2100+ mv is still a deadly killer and it can be housed in a trim standard length action and isn't so fat that it can't get 3 down (or more) comfortably. Besides that, every .458 I've shot was pretty darned accurate to boot. I know of one M70 .458 that shoots near one-holers with various brands of factory ammo as well as handloads. It may not be the best big bore cartridge but I wouldn't think twice about using it on any dangerous game with the right bullets for the job. With a stiff powder charge and a 350 gr. TSX the .458 shoots plenty flat too and becomes a 250+ yard game getter for anything in North America and all African plains game. Just my $.02 worth.

OK OFFICER.....TAKE ME AWAY!!!!

Most practical without a doubt is the .416 Remington..It will do it all and do it well. It is a standard length action, ammo is readily available about everywhere..The .375 is another good option..

The Rigby is just too big an action and all your packing is extra weight in my opinnion and you get nothing balistically as a rule, but it is a fine cartridge..

My preference is the 404 Jefferys but it's not particularly a practical rifle..

Personally, if I ever have a chance at Africa, I will carry a .416 Remington Magnum. Just because.

If I had the money for a true custom rifle, I would carry a .404 Jeffery.

But as far as practical "oh crap, I lost my fancy ammo, what now?" scenarios, the .375 Weatherby and .458 Lott are probably the most "practical" as they can shoot .375 H&H and .458 Win Mag ammo in a pinch.

The words "most practical" seem to have no meaning with some of the folks around here! in which case we are left with the .375 H&H, 416 Rem, and 458 Win. none of which would be my first choice but I am not a particularly practical guy as my all time favorite is the 404 Jeffersy..but the .375 and 416 are par excellent choices IMO..The .458 would be my last choice but I could get by with it, if I had to and it would work...

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Doesn't practical also mean that ammo is readily available for it?

No! Practical means the one you have in hand if trouble starts...which, in my case will be a 9.3x62, a 404 Jeffery, or a 500 Jeffery.

I still think 458 lott is most practical.

Perhaps the 500 A2 should be catagorized as most capable with the least $ invested. And I agree with Rob that if you can handle a 458 lott you can handle a 500 A2. I was suprised shooting my 500 Jeffrey that while recoil was much greater, it wasn't as objectionable. The 458 lott seems to come back much faster. Though I'll admit I was only shooting starter loads i.e. 600's @ 2200 fps. I'm sure cranking them up to 2400-2500 fps would get my attention, and then some.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I still think 458 lott is most practical.

Perhaps the 500 A2 should be catagorized as most capable with the least $ invested. And I agree with Rob that if you can handle a 458 lott you can handle a 500 A2. I was suprised shooting my 500 Jeffrey that while recoil was much greater, it wasn't as objectionable. The 458 lott seems to come back much faster. Though I'll admit I was only shooting starter loads i.e. 600's @ 2200 fps. I'm sure cranking them up to 2400-2500 fps would get my attention, and then some.

Believe me , It will .. Nodoubt about it ...

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I agree with Rob that if you can handle a 458 lott you can handle a 500 A2.

I am not so sure I would say that, unless you are careful to stipulate, as you seem to be doing, that you are comparing the full house Lott to a down-loaded A-Square.

I find that there is a big increase in recoil when stepping up from full house loads in the .458 Lott, shooting 500 grain bullets at 2,300 fps, to full house loads in the .500 A-Square, shooting 600 grain bullets at 2,500 fps.

When both are loaded to maximum levels, the Lott is a veritable pussycat in comparison to the A-Square.

If I may spice up the discussion...

It is a wildcat but the 500 KILL ALL will be firing soon and it will be cheap to feed with pistol bullets and ranger ricks bullets up to 700 grains.

Size down 510 bullets as well.

All with minimal mods like the 500 A2 but on either a 06 or ultra mag size actions.

It is in the pic below. A belted ultra mag case necked to .500"

500 Nitro power on a bolt.