The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores "Another 500" Now At Ammoguide: 12.7X68 49-10Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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RIP, No problemo with RIPPER...but my rifles aren't finished yet so I can't shoot anything except my 300 RSAUM or 1911 45 ACP!  I'm still a month or so away from having my two M98s in my hands...I'll have to phone Steve tomorrow for an update.Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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500 GR (Grim Ripper)? I like 500 RIP better but I know this is more of a dictator than democracy  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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500 RIPPER Now By Damn That's Better! All this damned 12 x 10 x 49 divided by 68 and then add 50 and crap was giving me a F*****G Headache! Not only that, but I could not make out what it was--So official, unofficial did not matter to me, if I was going to remember this thing, I was going to use 500 RIPPER one way or the other anyway. Ya'll can call it anything you want of course, it's yours, but this is the only way I can see it! And yes--all the BS BC Crap is driving me nuts--I don't want to know! Thank you very much! Jim and Tanz--Go shoot something please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Maybe you can use BC for Buffalo Culling! | |||
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Now by Damn, there is a wonderful thought--Very Well I declare it So! From this day hence, BC is now know as "Buffalo Culling", and no longer has any other meaning! Thank you Sam--You are a Genius! M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, thank you for the incentive. I just have to wait for a window of opportunity. I'm sure that Jim is just as anxious. Meanwhile, we test what we can, which is to plot trajectories and consider best loads, bullets, hunting plans, etc. And I am waiting for test results and potential opportunities of rebarreling a yet-to-be-fired first wildcat (500AccRel). Joy. And whenever doing my share of BC Buffalo Culling, I will duly check the ballistic coefficients and tables of JBM ballistics to make sure that we have enough energy to gut, quarter, package, and wrap any critter 250-400 yards. I get to shoot some paper and waterbottles in August, and maybe play tag with the critters in October. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Tan are you going to be in Kali in August? I should have my .500 in hand by then so perhaps we can get together and kill some milk containers. Drop me a note. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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There is already a 404 RIP. That is short for "404/.416 Rigby Improved Plus." It is a full length Rigby with shoulder changed from 45-degree to 20-degree and necked up to .423-caliber. Calling this 500 as another RIP cartridge would be confusing, unless we called it the "500 RIP-Short." Or "500 Rip-Snort." OK. 500 Rip-Snort. Doc M can still call it the 500 RIPPER if he wants.  | |||
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HEH.............. Yes, I think I will stick with 500 Ripper!  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Yeah, me too. | |||
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Jesus RIP, you are as bad with this as I am with the B&M logos! LOL................... Don't worry, I will be thinking on this today  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Yep, If it ain't B&M or MDM it puts Doc M to sleep. Understandable.  404 RIP, 500 RIPPER, that is distinction enough.  The reamer for this cartridge is called the "500 XXX" at Dave Manson. It is released to the gun trade. I wanted to call it the .500 Tornado, but Michael Uekotter (member 2RECON) informed me that Waffen Jung of Germany liked to collect royalties. For use of that "Tornado" name, even the German Air Force had to pay to apply it to a weapon. Trademark of a word as applied to a weapon system.     No more "Tornado" now at AmmoGuide: 12.7x68mm Magnum/49-10 AKA: 500 RIPPER   Hornady Custom dies: Perfect match of chamber reamer and reloading dies, using Lapua (civilian) .338 Lapua Magnum brass.  This is not just a long range plains game and varmint cartridge. 94 grains of Benchmark Extreme with a 500-grain CEB DGBR brass FN solid bullet is sub-MOA and just under 2400 fps for a gentle giant killer:  Another load (97.0 g Benchmark/2473 fps with 500-grain CEB DGBR-FN) will be added at AmmoGuide, and may be compared to QuickLOAD predictions below, with 97.0 grains as nominal:   | |||
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Newest load at AmmoGuide is now #18 of 21 loads listed so far, for the 500 RIPPER. An "Average Load", not full, not compressed: 500 g CEB DGBR-FN ... Hodgdon Benchmark 97.0 g 3.520" 2473 fps 6793 ft-lbs 24.0" QuickLOAD velocity prediction of 2405 fps was low on this bullet and powder combination. Chronographed (5-yard) belocity was 68 fps faster. With some combinations of bullets and powders, QuickLOAD may predict higher than obtained velocities, of course, even with the 500 RIPPER. Powder lots vary, etc. Overall, it has averaged out to very close to reality for the 500 RIPPER. Of course I have no pressure measurements in reality, but no problems indicated, and no MAX loads reached yet.  | |||
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Uh-oh ... Above QuickLOAD was from before I knew the actual gross water capacity, and the COL/OAL of the load actually fired was longer too. Somewhat compensatory errors, but not by much. I bet the QuickLOAD velocities and pressures would have been higher and closer to reality if the inputs were closer to reality. Also the banded brass solid bullet start pressure needs to be reduced by a "non-bearing" factor. IMHO. I bet Sir Jim could fix it if he had access to QuickLOAD, which I do not right now.  | |||
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Names that never got considered. 500 Big Foot or 50 BF Fifty Yeti 500 Kracken "Release the Kracken!" I think I will have to design the Sixty Sasquatch based on the 416 Barrett case 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Hey, don't be hogging all that stuff you smoking out there! Learn to Share! http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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"500 XXX" as originally told to Dave Manson, i.e., "500 Censored" and fill in the blank as whimsy dictates that day, e.g., "500 White Lightning." Seems to be the pattern so far. 500 XXX. | |||
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500 White Lightning! Too Much! Speaking of which, friend of mine brought me a small jar of that fine stuff a couple of weeks ago, and it is Soooooooooo Goooood! Sipping stuff you know! Still, I hang with the Ripper! I think perfect, denotes many things, including it's developer. .500 Rules the 500 designations. Also I am sure many of us saw the Midway Blemish Sale. Well there are a couple of .500s on there, of note what appears to have to be the 500 gr Hornady, which I got 250 of yesterday. Wonderful practice, lower velocity bullet. Keep to 2000-2100 and it is very happy. Also had some of the 300 Flex tips, wanted 250 of those as well, but only had 100 left! So I got those. About all I seen of any use, had lots of rat bullets. Just FYI, might want to look at those 500/500s. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I missed out on the blems, but still have some of Hornady 300-grain FTX and 500-grain JFP and the XTP. Those are nice plinking bullets, and they can be loaded to duplicate the CEB wunderbullet trajectories, close enough for good practice loads. They might even be good bullets for game if used in the proper bracket of velocity at impact. And they even have a published G1 BC!!! Use the Hornady .500/300-grain FTX at 3050 fps (BC = .200, SD = .171): +1.3"@50yds, +3.0"@100yds, +2.2"@200yds, -6.0"@300yds to mimic trajectories of either CEB MTH .500/430-grainer at 2650 fps or CEB ESP W350/360-grain Raptor at 2900 fps, in the ".500 Ripper." Use the Hornady .500/500-grain XTP at 2150 fps MV (BC = .185, SD = .275): +0.4"@50yds, 0.0"@100yds, -10.1"@200yds, -38.2"@300yds Or +1.5"@50yds, +2.2"@100yds, 0.0"@150yds, -5.8"@200yds, -31.6"@300yds for useful velocity on game. Or to simulate CEB .500/500gr DGBR FN solid trajectory and recoil try 2400 fps MV: +1.7"@50yds, +3.0"@100yds, 0.0"@183yds, -1.6"@200yds, -20.3"@300yds That last one also allows experimentation with a rainbow trajectory.  | |||
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RIP Got my blems yesterday, indeed 500 Hornady and 300 Hornady. I could not find any "Blems" on the Blems? Looked great. For me, this side, the 500 Hornady is excellent in the 50 B&M Alaskan lever guns, running 1850-1900 in the 18 inch guns. The 300 Flex is excellent in the 50 Super Short, running 2400 or so. Good plinking, and toting around bullets, and I know the 500 Hornady in the field. The 300 Flex tests very good even up to 2400, and would make a good light game taker I am sure, even though I have not used it in that capacity. Sam made that forming die for me, I can take the 500 Hornady, make a RN Soft out of it, and it is very good in the 50 B&M at 2000-2100, and makes an excellent practice load for those guns. So the blems are pretty spiffy for me here--I have enough .500 caliber cartridges here to utilize almost any bullet. Of course when things truly get Serious, we move straight to BBW#13s of some sort! M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Yep, Hornady pistol bullets from 300 to 500 grains have a lot of good uses in all these .500-caliber rifles. Doc M, you have done very well in breathing new life into the .500 caliber. I agree that the .500-cal has the .510-cal beat for overall usefulness now.: CEB, North Fork, et al. I noticed on the other thread that Jim mentioned a BC of .600 for the 430-grain MTH, as reported by Dan The Man of CEB. Jim and Dan did very well in designing that bullet. Glad I got in on it when they produced the batch. Thank you Jim. .600 BC actually fits my unscientific data well. I plugged that into the Hornady calculator, free on-line, just for fun, with the more practical zero for 2.0 inches high at 100 yards. Makes it right-on at 200 yards. No science intended. No altitude entry, so I assume sea level. Out to 500 yards to show why I should not shoot that far: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cartridge: 500 Ripper with CEB MTH Rifle: Winchester M70, 24" barrel, 1:12" twist Sight Height: 1.5" Bullet Weight (grains): 430 Ballistic Coefficient: .600 Muzzle Velocity (fps): 2660 fps (corrected to nearest 10 fps at muzzle, 5-yard velocity = 2651 fps) Temperature (F): 59 Barometric Pressure (hg): 29.53 Relative Humidity: 78% Altitude: sea level Zero Range (yards): 200 Wind Speed (mph): 10 (cross wind) Ballistics Table in Yards Range (yards): 0 (Muzzle) 50 100 200 300 400 500 Velocity (fps): 0: 2660 50: 2586 100: 2513 200: 2370 300: 2232 400: 2099 500: 1970 Energy (ft.-lb.): 0: 6755 50: 6384 100: 6028 200: 5364 300: 4758 400: 4207 500: 3707 Trajectory (200 yd. zero): 0: -1.5 50: 0.9 100: 2.0 200: 0.0 300: -8.2 400: -23.3 500: -46.4 Wind Drift (inches): 0: 0.0 50: 0.1 100: 0.5 200: 2.3 300: 5.3 400: 9.9 500: 16.0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ballistics Calculator v1.0 Hornady Mfg, Inc., by ARIS, Inc. | |||
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W350 ESP Raptor from CEB, weighing 360 grains with tip, BC = .260 actually fitted up within 1" at 300 yards trajectory for my unscience. So, a most practical 2.0" high at 100 yards gives a dead-on range of 205 yards, and only 0.3" lower at 300 yards than the MTH above. Unscience: Assume same sight height of 1.5" for trajectory comparison between the two bullets. Actual rifle used for this bullet had 1.7" sight height. This is just a calculator "what if." Raising the sight height to 1.7" with same +2.0" trajectory at 100 yards: Extends the dead-on-range by 5 yards to 210 yards. Raises the trajectory at 300 yards by 1/2" to -8.0". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cartridge: 500 Ripper with CEB ESP Raptor Rifle: BRNO ZKK 602, 24" barrel, 1:12" twist Sight Height: 1.5" Bullet Weight (grains): 360 Ballistic Coefficient: .260 Muzzle Velocity (fps): 2920 fps (corrected to nearest 10 fps at muzzle, 5-yard velocity = 2903 fps) Temperature (F): 59 Barometric Pressure (hg): 29.53 Relative Humidity: 78% Altitude: sea level Zero Range (yards): 205 Wind Speed (mph): 10 (cross wind) Ballistics Table in Yards Range (yards): 0 (Muzzle) 50 100 200 300 400 500 Velocity (fps): 0: 2920 50: 2740 100: 2568 200: 2242 300: 1941 400: 1666 500: 1426 Energy (ft.-lb.): 0: 6815 50: 6003 100: 5271 200: 4018 300: 3010 400: 2220 500: 1625 Trajectory (200 yd. zero): 0: -1.5 50: 0.8 100: 2.0 200: 0.3 300: -8.5 400: -26.5 500: -57.2 Wind Drift (inches): 0: 0.0 50: 0.3 100: 1.2 200: 5.0 300: 12.3 400: 23.6 500: 39.8 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ballistics Calculator v1.0 Hornady Mfg, Inc., by ARIS, Inc. | |||
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It is going to be a couple of months before I can add some more loads to the ammoguide list. Will include North Fork 375-grain and 450-grain FPS and CPS. Also will revisit the 300-yard shooting with the CEB ESP Raptor and MTH bullets calculated on above. Will get both rifles set for 2.0" high at 100 yards. Then will see if both are about 8" low at 300 yards ... at least three 3-shot groups for each bullet, at 100 yards, and 300 yards. Will do it when I can. I can think of few things more fun than that kind of stuff. | |||
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RIP. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I think +2.0" at 100 yards is a very appropriate zero for both bullets and I don't reckon any of us will complain about waiting a few months for additional loading and test data. Heck I'm still months away from my rifles being ready so it's rat calibers for me until then. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Jim, My condolences to both of us. Your gunsmithing wait. My delays due to work intruding on my hobby. I corrected my typo pointed out by the quote above. Will be 100 yds and 300 yds, same as last time. No 200 yards. I am no scientist, afterall, getting more than barely enough data is not my style. And I am prone to typos and all kinds of human error. OCD/ADD. | |||
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RIP, Very true condolences to both of us. I can't blame my gunsmith; delays have been my fault changing specs, parts, etc... then waiting for new parts, etc... Now we're waiting for Duane to make another run of 4MJ bottom metals (we need 2 and Duane is all out) and until they're run we're pretty much at a standstill. Oh well, wife is eyeballing some painting she wants done so guess I'll be busy with a paint brush. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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RIP Got an email from John at North Fork this morning, and he wants to run 10 or so samples of the solids before approval, just to make sure all is good to go. I mentioned you might be out of the loop for a bit, and suggested that he send samples here, I get them tested, and I am pretty sure that anything that works with the B&Ms, MDM, will work with the Ripper? With your approval, I will check things out for the both of us before the big order is done? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Thanks for taking care of that. Nobody better than you to do it right. | |||
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500 Ripper is now aka 500 BUM. 500 Berry-Uekotter-McGee. | |||
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There you go changing names again. I'm just hoping someone comes up with a short-throated reamer soon in the US for the 500 AccR. If not, I may end up with a lot of .510 brass, bullets, and dies that won't fit a BUM Whatever. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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416Tanzan, Not really a name change, just another AKA for the "12.7x68mm Magnum/49-bore/.500-caliber/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved of 2010." How many other cartridges do you know of with a "double-magnum" name? This is a magnum's magnum, at least in title. "500 BUM" is shorter and just as memorable a name as "500 Ripper." Even Doc M might be able to remember "500 BUM" and it is not quite as evil sounding as "500 Ripper." What? Got a BUM steer on your first reamer? Design your own so you don't have to BUM one. | |||
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Best Ultimate Magnum 500 BUM-W? what's the 'w'? As for doing one's own reamers, I was trying to do an ultimate low cost 500, for responsible, self-guided walks in the forest. Double barrels have already upset that goal. Adding a reamer, $200?, a set of dies 200?, and then another set of brass sort of undermines that effort. And on reamers, does one need to add a 'rougher$200'? On brass, I suppose the cheapest route would be to get the Hornady 416 stuff and cut off the mouthpiece, just like a good cigar. Then fireform and probably needing a neck-ream. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Tan, Ok here’s the bottom line. If you already have the parts – bullets, an un-chambered .510 caliber barrel, and 500 AccRel reloading dies – then all you need is a 500 AccRel finish chamber reamer having a freebore length designed for standard hunting bullets rather than the longer/heavier FMJ 50 BMG bullets. You do not need a roughing reamer and the original 500 AccRel Go/No-Go Gauges will work for both. If you have a pre-chambered barrel…well guess you can basically ignore this entire post. So if no pre-chambered barrel you need a shorter Freebore 500 AccRel finish chamber reamer…and here are two possibilities… Contact Jeffe’s reamer manufacturer directly to determine if someone has already had them make a standard throat 500 AccRel finish chamber reamer… And if so, ask them to contact the purchaser for you to ask the purchaser to please contact you. If not, contact Jeffe to determine if he had multiple 500 AccRel finish reamers manufactured and whether perhaps he has one or more are being held at a single location. And if so, ask if perhaps he’d be willing to send one back to the reamer manufacturer to have them modify the throat dimensions of the existing reamer to accommodate a standard Freebore length. If the finish reamer manufacturer happens to be Dave Manson, I believe the turnaround is 3 weeks and $30 to alter an existing finish reamer versus 12 weeks and $200 for a new finish reamer. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Yep, All you need do is have the throat on the original reamer ground down to whatever throat you like. I am dropping all excess verbiage from the official name of the "500 BUM." Henceforth it is known only by the designtion on the Hornady Custom Die set, the origin of which will be shrouded in secrecy, only for "Musketeers" to know: 12.7X68 49-10 Sort of like "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince." Of course to save time, just skip the metric part and go straight to the U.S. Springfield designation similar to 30-06: 49-10 "Magnum" nomenclature also is now dropped. Sweet little powerhouse. Little Red Corvette ... | |||
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I’ve pulled this information from a few different forum threads, brought to this thread as Ron will be accomplishing the fire forming with his 12.7x68/49-10 rifle…  and bring this thread back to page one.! I pulled this information from the Good News; Jamison Rides again. thread: http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3101017971/p/1
And I pulled this information from the 500 Bateleur: RIP 500 MS thread: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/1681060181
Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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RIP this is what I call "THE BRASS" the head thickness speaks for it self a High pressure brass without any reservations. I would anneal any case before any necking up would take place. It would minimize the possibility of microscopic cracks to form and greatly extend the life expectancy of the brass. Pyzda | |||
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Pyzda, You are right about that. My annealing with a propane torch and a pan of water is not as pretty as Lapua's but it is not worth risking a case. Less likely to crack later, even if they survive the initial fireforming. Might as well get used to annealing the milsurp cases. Jim, I see you want me to continue reporting on the test of your milsurp brass on this page. So be it. The 500 Bateleur/50-12 has not hatched yet. The 12.7x68/49-10 "bird of prey" soars already. That "Lapua 98" brass has a bright and shiny appearance to it that needs some dulling and softening in the neck and shoulder area, before it gets blown out from .338 to .500 caliber. Wildcatter rule of annealing: Anneal before necking up and after necking down, unless it is new brass that has come from the Lapua factory freshly annealed after being necked down from cylindrical.  | |||
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Hey Ron, I've no problem with your reporting the results over in the 500 Bateleur thread, I’ll copy it over here. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I thought these excerpted posts that I placed over in the 500 AccRel throat, reamers, and freebore thread might be of interest elsewhere so here it is… Drawn from: http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3061083571/p/8 Now all three threads have been appropriately updated! Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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