Will do. I want the .395 Max to be the MAX! Noted on an earlier thread that we might want to get some Raptors.
Got my chronograph working again. Will send actual velocities.
Max

Max,
Great! Keep us posted.
CEB .375 Raptors are 230-grain weight.
A .395 ESP Raptor might be 240-250?
How about scaling up the .375 Raptor to .395?
Or, alternatively, lengthen the nose profile enough to blend in with the existing .375 tip insert for the hollowpoint,
then shorten the body enough to make weight and length desired, with usual base profile?
I will sign on whenever you get around to it.

I think just a scaled up 375 would be best to get the same sheering properties.
Probably 250 grains.
Fast and vicious!

I think you'll want to base the .395 Raptor weight off your twist rate. If you're using a 12" twist I believe you'll want the weight lighter than 240-250gr final weight.

Capo,
Yes, you are right. The twist is 1-12" for the .395 rifles. I would not be adverse to a lighter bullet, 225-230 grains, but methinks, for our uses, it might be too light.

Max,
Give me a few weeks to get a handle on work and next month I will talk to Dan-The-Man at CEB about a .395 ESP Raptor, unless you beat me to it.

Yes I think with a 1 in 12 twist you would want a 225 grain bullet.
They are not lacking even at .2 SD. They beat out other premium bullets of .3 SD in penetration.

However, the .375/230-grain ESP "Rapture" bullets gave excellent accuracy at long range WITH TIP, in a .375 H&H.
Same 1:12" twist, for .375 AND .395.
There is no reason in the world to make a larger diameter bullet lighter for the same twist rate in the bigger bore barrel!

Keep the .395 the same length as the .375 (just scale up the diameters) and it will be heavier than 230-grains, I am pretty sure.
Just a wee bit.

The fine details of the nose and whether the same .375 tip could be used,
versus a .395 tip scaled up in diameters only, are the only things that could change that.

I see that Cutting Edge Bullets has booth #715 at the NRA Convention in St. Louis, April 12-15, 2012.

http://www.nraam.org/

Even more reason to attend:
Larry the Cable Guy will be there too.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
However, the .375/230-grain ESP "Rapture" bullets gave excellent accuracy at long range WITH TIP, in a .375 H&H.
Same 1:12" twist, for .375 AND .395.
There is no reason in the world to make a larger diameter bullet lighter for the same twist rate in the bigger bore barrel!

Keep the .395 the same length as the .375 (just scale up the diameters) and it will be heavier than 230-grains, I am pretty sure.
Just a wee bit.

The fine details of the nose and whether the same .375 tip could be used,
versus a .395 tip scaled up in diameters only, are the only things that could change that.

Yep likely between 235 and 240gr... I'd upscale the HP diameter as well as the tip.

RIP,
I also am up to my a-- in alligators. Couldn't even get on my computer yesterday.
I am in agreement that, if the 230gr .375 is working well, a 235-240 in .395 should also do well.

Capo, you might also be right on upscaling the HP diamener.

Ah, the many iterations on a new bullet for our new caliber.
Max

Max you'll definately want the scaled up HP diameter in order to keep the low velocity petal shear point of the updated .375 caliber Raptor...a smaller diameter HP will result in raising the petal shear point 100+ fps or so.

Yep,
Scratch the idea of using the .375 tips in the .395.
I was just thinking stupidly of possible cost savings.
But I reckon the plastic tips are machined by CNC too?
Just widen all diameters on the .375 ESP Raptor 230-grainer by a factor of .395/.375 = 1.05333...,
and make sure all the long-axis lengths stay the same.
Voila!
Just have to pay for two custom components (one brass, one plastic) to make a special bullet.

Lessee, getting rid of "pie are squared" constants that factor out anyway,
since pie are round and cornbread are square:

square of .375 = 0.140625
square of .395 = 0.156025

Ratio of .395 area to .375 area = .156025/.140625 = 1.1096689

5.3% bigger diameter.
11.0% bigger area.
So would not same length cylinder of bigger diameter be 11% heavier?
Guesstimate a .395 ESP Raptor at 10% heavier than a .375?

(230 grains) x 1.1 = 253 grains?

240-250 grains?

Computer generated bullet weight needed now.

Ah, a chance to get back to the important things in life.
I think we all pretty much agree that the hollow point should be larger than on the .375. This helps ensure lower shear velocity. The increase in diameter from .375 to .395 should provide the increased weight for our bullet. Bullet length, of course, being the same for both calibers. It comes down to a bullet of 245 grains or 250 grains in my estimation. Yes, 253 is the mathmatical perfection, but cheating by three grains is not that bad...and we know that dropping to 245 grains only helps our velocity.

Have I summed up our thoughts? Anyone, jump right in here if I've made an error. I will be more than glad to experiment on wild hogs this spring and summer, and an elk later this year.
Max

Max you pretty well covered things.

So here we are 7 months later…

Ron,
I know you’ve been involved in many other areas…

Ok Max,
You’re it! Did you get a chance to use those sweet looking 240gr CEB FBH bullets on any game animals this fall?

Unfortunately, no. This summer, I pulled loose the mesh installed in my chest from my "blow up" in Iraq. Then got to go antelope hunting one day...and stepped deep into a badger hole, fell against a barbed wire fence causing multiple cuts and punctures, twisted my ankle, and ruined my relationship with God due to the words than then followed.

I did not draw any other licenses this year for hunting the areas and game I wanted to hunt in Colorado. I DO have a white tail hunt in Oklahoma later, but don't think this would be the best animal to test the 240gr CEB on.

After the DSC show, I'll be hunting hogs in Oklahoma and again just before the Tulsa Gun Show. May test them then.

Geez Max I hope you're healing ok, you definately had a rough time there for awhile. Seems like when s__t happens it really piles on.

Good luck on your Okie whitetail hunt! Pigs for the freezer are a good thing; eliminate as many as you can.

Take care...

Thanks, Capo. The one good thing I've done is arrange rooms for the group at DSC in January, oh, and agreed to host the party Saturday night. You ought to come...and maybe Boomy too .

Thanks Max. DSC was on my 'to do' list this year but again family obligations are intervening. Maybe next year.

BTT

Max,

I am doing black ops right now, can't get to the reloading files so I did a search here and brought this thread BTT:

".395 Bullets"

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/3201052271

IIRC, I was getting close to 2200 fps with the 410gr/.396 LBT FN, no problems with the 1:12" twist with that heavy bullet.
LBT Blue Lube and gas check, except gas checks for .416 Rifle were tough to get right. No leading problems.

I'll have to review.

Who do you want to get to make a mould?

The .410 caliber pistol bullet GC may be the best bet for GC.
I will give up the .416 rifle GC if so. Haven't tried it yet.
They are a spin off of Rusty McGee 400 Whelen cast bullet loading.



Above is the starting load. I never got finished testing.
I had cockeyed GC problems.
The new GC may be my accuracy solution.

Good resurrection! Now we need more updates…

RIP,
Was thinking of having Accurate Moulds make a double cavity mould for me. Have a friend who casts and uses these moulds. I'm thinking of something lighter than 410 grains, maybe around 350 since this is to be used for practice and a little deer hunting...although, it might be nice to sign up for a buffalo hunt and use something similar to what the old hunters used.
Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I had forgotten all about it. Will put it into my favorites box.
Max

Max,
Thanks for reminding me to try those smaller .41 cal handgun gas checks,
instead of the .416 rifle GCs.

That could be the key to accuracy and velocity with your new bullet or mine.
I will stick to the 410-grainer at 2200-2300 fps
in any of the .395 wildcats.
All can do it.

I tried the .41-cal handgun bullet GC's (Lyman) and they are no better than the .416 rifle GC's (Hornady) on the .396/410-gr LBT LFN-GC bullet.

Hornady makes the best quality gas checks, IMHO.

So I have devised a trick to make the Hornady .375 GC's work on the .396 cast lead boolitt:

Place the .375 Hornady GC on an anvil, with the open/concave/cupped/inside-side up.
Place the beveled-from-hexagonal-to-circular end of the handle of proper steel punch down on the cupped face of the GC.
Hit the other end of the punch with a 2-pound hammer.
Voila!
The GC opening is flared the proper amount to fit the boolitt snuggly AND squarely.
When properly sized and lubed, the boolitt has a slight boat tail, and the base of the boolitt is flat and square!!!

This will surely improve accuracy as compared to the bulgy and more variable result of trying to make the .416 GC work.





The Hornady .375 GC measurements before the "flaring of cup":
0.389" O.D. at top edge of cup.
0.355" I.D.
0.083" height.
After flaring the GC with a punch and hammer:
O.D. is 0.398" at top edge of cup.

That is about a sweet as it gets.
Sizing the bullet in a .396-cal push-through die from Lee does make the GC attachment snug.
Then I lube the bullet in a Lyman Lubrisizer (.400" standard) with nose punch No. 43, then I pass the bullet through the Lee .396 die (custom) to tidy up.

It would be nice to find a custom GC to fit the ".395"/.396" cast lead boolitts.
Something that is about .400" O.D. then design the bullet GC tail to fit the I.D. of that custom GC cup.

Looking to see if there is such a thing as a "10mm" or .40-cal handgun bullet GC, as
.395 cal = 10.03 mm ...

Veral Smith of LBT suggested using the .416 GC, and that was the only way he erred on this boolitt design.
Of course the .395-caliber rifle is a rarity.
But NEI does make a .396"/255gr-GC mould, available off the shelf.
Must be for the old 400 Nitro For Black Powder 3", but that was a 230-grain cast lead round nose,
if it ever existed.

A lead:

http://www.lasc.us/CheckShankSize.htm



Above from castboolits.gunloads.com, and this:

"Gator makes a 40 caliber check that takes a 0.380" shank.

Or, a 416 check, taking a 0.3925" shank, can be squeezed down to fit, providing you have a good sizing die.

Most mass produced sizing dies won't be up the the task, however."

And this:

Larry Blackmon
Bullet Swaging Supply
303 McMillan Road
West Monroe, LA 71291
(318) 387-7257
Fax (318) 325-7034

Larry Blackmon is "Gator Gas Checks."

I never thought about designing a .395-caliber loadable .396" boolitt mould around a specific gas check.
Oh well, I have now. Live and learn.

The table from LA Silhouette Club shows a Gator Gas Check:

Gas check designator: .410P2
Maximum GC boolitt shank diameter accepted: .378"
?For boolits from: .41 BSS, NEI, MM (very thick)

The LBT .396/410gr LFN GC tail diameter is about 0.370".
The Gator GC from Larry Blackmon might be perfect,
but a punch-flared Hornady .375 GC ain't bad.

RIP,
As usual, you have come up with great ideas. Since I've now ordered the mould, I might as well order some of these Gator Gas Checks, too. Will call him tomorrow about this.
Max

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
RIP,
... I might as well order some of these Gator Gas Checks, too. Will call him tomorrow about this.
Max

I mean to also.

RIP,
Contacted Gator Gas Checks today. After I was told the high cost of tooling ($900) for .395 GCs, have now given up on that idea. My next order of business is to acquire some .375 GCs and make a tool similar to yours. The "tink, tink, tink" heard now at my place is the reforming of .375 GCs to .395 GCs.

Max,
I got the day off tomorrow so will finally call for myself ... now that you have proof of life.

I have not given up on this one:

Gator's .410P2 which fits a gas check shank diameter up to .378" diameter and is said to be "very thick"

That might work for my .396/410-gr LBT LFN.
If not, the Hornady .375 "boattailed-by-hand-punching" gas checks will do.