what are the benefits and detractions of a 500 mbogo. (470 mbogo necked up to .510) 470 mbogo vs 500 mbogo pros and cons??? what say you? could the 500 mbogo be better than the 500 a2 or 505 gibbs?

The pragmatist in me says that there would be no real advantage over the 500 A2, and for sure none worth the effort in cartridge development.

The 470 Mbogo is better in all respects anyway!

Cheers,
Canuck

Plan A:
This is the devil's own plan. Neck up the .450 Rigby to .510 and blow the shoulder out a few more thou to get 0.575" at the shoulder instead of 0.572". Keep the shoulder 45 degrees like the original .416 Rigby (which has a shoulder diameter of only 0.541"). The .416 Rigby and .450 Rigby already have .514" and .526" neck length respectively. Necking up the .450 Rigby to .510 would make that a little longer, about 55 caliber length neck. Max brass length is 2.905" to 2.912" ballpark.

Plan B:
The .470 Mbogo has a maximum neck length of 0.415" for a .475" bullet. So assuming trim-to-length of brass being 2.935", the .470 Mbogo has only a 40 caliber neck length.

If we just neck up the .470 Mbogo, and kept a max brass length of 2.945", the .500 Mbogo for .510 caliber bullet would have a neck length of 0.444" to nearest .001" before trimming. After trimming it would have a 43 caliber neck length. We need an extra .070" of brass length to make it a 50 caliber neck after trimming, roughly speaking.

If max brass for a .500 Mbogo could be 3.010", with trim-to being 3.000", it would have a full 50 caliber length neck when trimmed.

Too much to ask for?

Plan C:
Accept a short neck of about 43 to 44 caliber length for the .510 bullet, and simply neck up the .470 Mbogo with max brass length 2.9450".

The .500 Jeffery gets by with a 34 caliber neck length for a 51 caliber bullet, so the .500 Mbogo has got to be even more glorious than the .500 Jeffery ...

.416 Rigby: 45 degree shoulder
.470 Mbogo: 35 degree shoulder
.500 Jeffery: 20 degree shoulder
.500 Rigby: 45 degree shoulder
.500 Mbogo: 35 degree shoulder


You can say The Devil made you do it, whichever way you go.

Now for the debate of .500 Rigby or .500 Mbogo versus .500 A-Square or .505 Gibbs.

Not a lot of "betters" in this class for most of us. A lot of power to be splitting hairs on. If you wanted a way to shoot milsurp BMG rounds, this might be a way, but you'd have to throat it accordingly and then lose something with the hunting bullets.
500g at 2500fps is awesome power. I guess bumping it up to 535g .510" might be "worthwhile," but what are you going to hit that you wouldn't love hitting with the 470?
I drew up the mini version of the 470 Mbogo and a 500 version with something other than DG in mind, and I think between the two I'd go 500, but the idea is that I will eventually have an Mbogo, and no real interest in the "Mdogo Mbogo" as it is called. The 13x61 Maus (500 Rigbyx 2.4") would be more like a monster 50 Alaskan (100g vs 65g with a 1.1" bullet, plus higher pressure) than it would a DG round.

Here's a couple of cents worth. If you want more get the Bridger 550 flat nose bullets with a .410 Meplate and ddrive them at 2400 fps out of the 470 Mbogo. Figure out the sectional density and think about the penetration that would have. The 500 A-Square is what you guys are talking about as far as the 50 caliber round goes. I designed the 470 partly because of the shootability of the cartridge. If you bump it up to 50 cal and load it to a 600 grain bullet at 2400 fps, you just gave the shootability away. I have a 500 A-Square and I don't consider myself recoil shy by any means but there is no way I could shoot it as well as my 470. If your not loading the 50 cal up to 2400 fps then why bother with the cartridge to start. If it's going to be a real hunting rifle you have to pack it all day so 10.5 to 11 lbs is about the limit. The 470 can be very managable to shoot in this weight range but the 500 would be very solid. That's what my 500 weighs so that is from experience. Split the 500 grain .475 bullet weight and the 600 grain .510 bullet weight and shoot a .475 550 bullet at 2400 fps and watch the penetration.
Take care,
Dave

I will be rechambering one of my .500 A-Square rifles to .500 Mbogo: chop off the belted area of the chamber, and go to town, with a .470 Mbogo reamer and 50 caliber pilot, then a 50 caliber neck and throat reamer to desired length.

I am not promising when, as here at HA!/DOA we are a little behind on completing the lineup.

The .500 Mbogo will be last.

A contract with The Devil, signed in blood, his blood, was obtained. He promised not to meddle with the .500 Mbogo anymore, else the red gods have promised to kick his ass.

Advantages of the .500 Mbogo over .500 A-Square:

1. Slightly larger case capacity.
2. No belt, better headspacing.
3. No rebate, better feeding.
4. Longer neck.

I am in Heaven. Get thee behind me Satan.
No more messing around with the .500 Mbogo concept.

Hey, even the .375 H&H has less than a caliber length neck. The .500 Jeffery has a .34 caliber length neck.

The .500 Mbogo will have a .43 to .51 caliber neck length, depending on the brass that can be obtained: no more than 3.010" length is needed and that is still shorter than a .505 Gibbs, and will work with the common .510 bullets and a 3.750" COL.

A sectional density of 0.300 or a little more with a flatnosed monometal solid at whatever velocity. I think the available 570 grainers at 2500 fps will be the ultimate and not much worse to hang onto than the .470 Mbogo.

quote:

No more messing around with the .500 Mbogo concept

what does this mean?

how fast will the 500 mbogo lob out 500 gr bullets at 40,000 psi (old school 416 rigby preasures)

one of the good things i was thinking about the 500 mbogo is the lower preasure...

i thing necked up 470 mbogo is the way to go

so bmg surplus bullets and 510 tsx bullets set far out seems a good idea

those ones on the right are the way to go...

sooooo c.z. 416 rigby $700
new barrel $250
gunsmith bill $300
this and the cost of 200 mbogo cases...not too bad

boomstick?

is the red banner in you signature say
"don't feed turkey to leprechuans if they have daggers"

jeffe

thought it was soooo funnnnyyyyy i had to post it

jeffeosso...what do you think of the 500 mbogo?

500 mbogo va 510 wells, 500 s2...

just a matter of choice, if you want a belt or not...

the mbogo probably would give you 25-30 FPS more...

jeffe

so it getts the jeffeosso seal of approval?

what do you think it will do at 40,000 psi?

i dont know about you guys but my 505 loads are doing 2500 fps with a 600 grain solid or soft it dosnt get any better than that.

mind you my gun is a modern weapon made to handle such loads.

BS,

Why not shorten the 416 Rigby case to fit into an M98 Mauser before necking up? You could shoot a 600 grain bullet at 2100 fps without getting into the somewhat bulky CZ550 action. AKA 495 A-Square without a belt.

So, you mean like a 2.4" case with a 3.1" COL?
GRET IDEA!
;-P

then you might as well do the lapua route and it will be dandy

Food for thought on Lapua case head (left) versus the Norma .416 Rigby case head (center) and the Quality Cartridge .470 Mbogo case head (right--looks like Norma .416 Rigby basic was used for this):





BTW, the Lapua brass is old and tarnished, from several years ago.

The shinier brass is freshly cut.

Barnes Original Bullets 50-110 WCF (510 Diameter) 300 Grain Flat Nose

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=741395

how would these do in a 500 mbogo?

good for jackrabits to deer...a real bomb!

GS Custom 850 grain .509 HV. Length is about 2.723".

I would prefer a faster twist for this one in the .500 Mbogo. 10" should be O.K.

Boomer, you can get McGowen to make a 32" twist for yours, and you will need ZERO FREEBORE.

The 500a2 just can't be beat. If anyone needs more, then there is the .600OK or 12 Ga FH. You just can't mess with perfection!-Rob

And for those jaded by familiarity with the .470 Mbogo and the .500 A2, but not yet ready for the Funny Farm (.600OK and 12GFH) nor vitreoretinal surgery, nor orthopedic/neurosurgical reconstruction, there is the .500 Mbogo.

Since there are already dies and reamers for 500 A2, I can't see why someone would look at wildcatting something that is a duplicate of it just to be free of the belt, the answer to that is 500 J, and you get about 10% more case capacity.

If that still isn't enough for you, neck a 600 OK down to 50 and hold on

Some will never "get it," and that is O.K.

The .500 Mbogo is certainly a better cartridge design than the .500 Jeffery.

The .500 Mbogo will not be so pressure limited as the .505 Gibbs head size, and will not need fillers at all, with powders and velocities ranging from RL-15/Varget to H4350/H4831.

What does it have over the .500 A2? Not much, but some. And no belt, and no rebate, and more brass options, depending on how long you want the neck to be, and that will always be longer than either the .500 A2 or .500 Jeffery neck.

Properly headstamped brass can be arranged, for the ".510/.470 Mbogo" or "500 Mbogo" or "500 Mbogo Express" or ".50/.416 Rigby" or whatever the heck we call this top of the food chain in useful/practical DGR's.

i think it is safe to say within reason the 500 mbogo is the best/cheapest d.g. stopper bolt rifle...$850 rifle rechamber $250 brass $2 (200 max for lifetime use $100 diff) $300 dies am i missing anything??? 17 18 hundred... buy three for a reasonable double i DO like double rifles don't dispair...i am lever action trash not bolt action trash but i dont discriminate

Ron,

I have chased such nat's assez before, so can appreciate the approach.

Boom, I'd take an off the shelf 458 lott and be done with it, cheaper still all the way around, and if 500 gr @ 2200 fps doesn't do the trick, more lead won't help your aim!!!

the 500 mbogo is more about style than function although it will do that in spades once it is a living fire breathing dragon

No offense but there are only two 50 caliber bolt gun chamberings that have any style, and those are the 505 Gibbs and 500 Jeffrey.

the 500 mbogo will be like platforms and bell bottoms...some say "yealch!" some say "groovy-baby"(best austin powers impersination)

to each his own
to thine self be true
road less traveled ect...

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Since there are already dies and reamers for 500 A2, I can't see why someone would look at wildcatting something that is a duplicate of it just to be free of the belt, the answer to that is 500 J, and you get about 10% more case capacity.

If that still isn't enough for you, neck a 600 OK down to 50 and hold on

True but then the .470 Mbogo shouldn't exist because of the 475 A&M. Finding new cartridges is what pumps fresh blood into wildcatting & reloading. Should a cartridge mirror another ballistically, with cosmetic differances, so be it! You can't rain on someones parade if you find it illogical to pay more for brass just to be differant. I commend people who think outside the box. By doing so you can spark interest in others who may dislike a certain cartridge for their own reason (however mundane).