The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 440?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
One of Us |
Any thoughts on .430" for big bore cartridges for carts more powerful than a 444? A "440 Magnum" based on a 375 HH case? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | ||
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| One of Us |
What about bullets? Although it would be good for blasting kangaroos in the spotlight.  | |||
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| One of Us |
I would love to come spotlight hunt with you some day  The pistol and 444 bullets are one of the main reasons to go 440. DG bullets could be custom ordered or cast. Plinking is 95% of big bore shooting for me. Just an idea or answer looking for a question that is filled by a few carts already. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| One of Us |
As is the case with probably 99% owners of 375 H&H and bigger. I think a 458 case would be the way to go. A real simple neck down. | |||
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Moderator |
404 - .424 10.75mm 425 - .435 11mm fairly well bracketed opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
But he is looking to be able to shoot readily available blow up bullets and thus pistol bullets and bullets meant for the 444. | |||
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| One of Us |
I like the idea of big bore pistol/lever gun bullets to plink with like the 410, 458 and 470 and there are plenty of pistol and lever bullets in .429" that is in the middle of 410 and 458. The idea is like the 404-375 HH but cheap plinkers and non DG bullets but you would have to have custom DG bullets made. Most of the good qualities of the 404-375 HH with an added bonus and negative that might float some boats. 400 grain bullets would have a .310 SD. Lots of people already have some kind of 44. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| Moderator |
Buy a Ruger Number 1 or Winchester 1895 in .405 and rebarrel to a .44-.405 wildcat of your own design. You can throat it to handle the 315gr. LBT bullets. George  | |||
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| One of Us |
I thought of some kind of longer 444 to use factory ammo say 2.5" length would be cool too. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| One of Us |
Ah, der Boominator rises from the tomb again. Consider a 444 RUM. I think I told you I have a 458 RUM (aka 460 G&A) built on an OM 70. As far as a 44 caliber; NOE is working on a 380gr mold, and there are a couple in the 320-350gr range available as we speak. | |||
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| One of Us |
...nothing new really. The 11,2x72 Schüler uses a .440cal bullet. Has do it since 1923... DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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| One of Us |
A very cool cart but the 11.2x72 has a .439" or .440" diameter. This idea would be a .429" or .430" diameter bullet of the 44 or 444. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| One of Us |
What you could do is get a 429 barrel chambered with a 4i6 Taylor reamer and then have the neck cut with a 429 throater. | |||
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| One of Us |
I ima-gunned a simple neck up of a 375 HH design but forming from basic brass or Lott brass would be easiest. Just a tad larger 404-375 HH as seen in my tag line. Maybe a 440-375 HH nomenclature would be the easiest. Here is the 404-375 next to a 470 Capstick.  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| One of Us |
Use a .41 caliber wildcat instead, with .41 mag bullets for play. | |||
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| One of Us |
A while back I calculated if you continue the taper of the 300 HH you could have a straight, belted HH case to neck to .410". I think it would be cool but the 440 HH idea was to fill the gap of DG/pistol/lever combo between 410 and 458. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| One of Us |
How will you go for barrel twist with available 429 barrels. | |||
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| one of us |
Boomie, maybe the Wildman from Wasila who made his 375 Warlord from our 585HE cases, could do one for a 4000 fps light bullet .429" cartridge. Extreme plinking..Ed | |||
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| One of Us |
Bartlien, iirc, makes cut rifled barrels, with any twist you desire. | |||
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| one of us |
I shot a few deer with .429 300gr serrias resized to 416 they worked find at 2600+fps. Shooting them in a 430 mag should work just as well. Don't know if would use them on really big game say over 300 pounds. I most likely would use the 416 Ruger for the base cartridge | |||
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| One of Us |
Like most things there are a few ways to scratch an itch, you just have to decide what scratcher suits you. This cart I think could be quite flexible and fun to shoot with cheap components for reloaders. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I am not into pistols but doesn't the 470 AR use the same diameter as some pistol calibre. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes. The Speer gold dots worked great in pigs. The 440 would be lighter and cheaper. I don't have a strong "Need" for this cart but think the idea has merit. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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one of us |
If you would like a larger factory cartridge (sorta) for .430"s you could always build a 10,66x58R (.42 Russian) Berdan. Buffalo Arms has brass and dies. It's the latest thing since the 1860s! | |||
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| One of Us |
430 RUM...? I am processing a 425 Westley Richards "Improved". The main complaint was the rebated rim that caused a tremendous PITA feeding. I hope to cure that by trimming a regular 404 Jefferys case (as WR did with theirs) and just using a mag bolt face. Rebated rims are just a dumb answer to a question nobody asked. Jim Kobe has agreed to take on the metal work. He can do about anything with a Mauser. As far as a cast plinker, www.accuratemolds.com has a neat bullet for the 404J. Check their web for the #43-425M design. Since he lathe bores, he can just scale up that bullet to 425WR specs, and shorten it to give a nice 400 +/-gr target load. He could scale it for your 444 just as easy, and a two cavity mold is only about $115 shipped. Option B: NOE Molds is in final design stage for a 380gr RFN heavy for 44's. Enough to give you something to mull over. Rich | |||
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| one of us |
There is a caster selling on Gunbroker that has Berdan and Veterrli lead slugs that are .430" or so.... Also has .436" Minies for the smaller bore 44cal ML. All are abour $24 per 50 slugs. Minies are the best as you can use cheaper slow twist barrels and get higher speeds. Slower twister has less leading. Just roll the Minies on a hard surface table with a board to get to the . 429" --- .430" size. I get minies from him for our 585HE, 24ga FH, and for our 12ga58cal sabot.Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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One of Us |
Jack Lott wrote that this was normal way among workers of national game department whose working gun was .425 WR. They just opened the bolt face but Jack has two bolts for his own rifle. | |||
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| Moderator |
yes - however, the 470 AccRel was designed around 500gr DGR bullets, and then pistol bullets worked out for north American hunting .. and the 400gr gold dot is amazingly tough, the polar opposite of the 405 .458 rem In this case, DGR bullets would have to be evolved while using pistol bullets as the mainstays. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| Moderator |
If it where mine, I'd just use RUM cases, Rich -- which is ALMOST what you are describing, except there are production dimensional differences in the RUM v 404 --- you can't make spec rum cases from normal production 404 cases.. but, to be clear, a 404 is .545 bolt face, a rum is .550 casehead with a .532 REBATED boltface .. just not rebated to .472/ opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
That's the smart way. Weren't the 425 WR guns single stack thus eliminating most feeding issues with the rebate? Rich. I have A 425 WR dummy made from rum brass and it is pretty cool but I like the Jeffery case idea better. One of my thoughts was drawing down Woodleigh softs in 425 WR bullets for the 440 idea being that you would shoot pistol ins 444 bullets 10:1 ratio and custom order Safari Solids or Raptors from Cutting Edge Bullets. Roughly 200-400 grain bullets so a wide range of performance. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| one of us |
Easy way to do one with more power than 44 MAG or 444 Marlin in the .429" size, is get a NEF in 444 Marlin and ream out chamber to bigger case, like getting 450-400 brass that is long case and expand it for the .429" slugs. Or 45-120, shrink it down. Could be done leaving case straight. That way you got gun and barrel all ready, and just got to do cases and chamber. Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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Moderator |
Don't recall what book it was, but in the ~60's somebody wildcatted the 300 win mag to use .429" bullets. Seems like given available bullets the 444 does all that needs doing in that bore size, but some folks just seem to have that itch that can only be scratched with a wildcat. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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| One of Us |
thanks, Jeff. About four years ago I was up late scanning the classifieds here. A gentleman from NY posted 500 Bell 404 J cases for $300 shipped about two minutes before I saw the ad. I posted I would take them, and sent him a PM. He asked for my cell number, and called me. Yes! 500 404 Jefferys cases for $300 shipped. That is why I am using them instead of the RUM. thanks, Rich | |||
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| One of Us |
I've posted about this a few times before, but here goes again. Jim Harvey back in the 50's? had three wild cats based on the magnum case in .429. A 2" from the 458 case, a full length 458 necked down and a 375 opened to .429. While not a Harvey wildcat I have a sizing die for a necked up 378Wby. The 2" in a short action and 300 gr bullets would be my choice if I were to go back to wildcatting one. | |||
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| One of Us |
Don't forget the other true .440, the 11.2x60. I'm having a great time working up loads and shooting my newly made 11.2 Unless you cast, bullets are not cheap though. | |||
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| One of Us |
el jeffe, is that trait continued in the Gold Dot line, or an abnormality? I have a Big Bore 94 action, that I'd like to make into a powerful revolver type cartridge. | |||
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| One of Us |
theback40, I have the same issue with a 425 WR build. I will likely get a good mold in the 400gr range and shoot them around 1600-1800fps. | |||
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| Moderator |
I had to call them -- the gold dot, now deep curl, are PLATED at like .045 iirc (i am likely wrong on depth) .. for the .474 bullets.. and they say that this is across the board http://www.speer-bullets.com/p...unting/deepcurl.aspx i haven't recovered one from an animal, to date .. even at nearly 200 yards on big pigs, complete pass through even after hitting the spine (tower stand, down hill, hit between shoulders, cutting spine) or at 20 yards (or less) ... and nothing like the explosive expansion of a 405 rem or a 158gr XTP in a 358 winchester hope that helps jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Jeffe, Have you ever used the 400 grain Speer 458 flat point. Fuck me dead I have killed some kangaroos, goats and pigs with that bullet. Most with 458 Win at right on 2000 f/s with 70 grains of 4064. | |||
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| One of Us |
Thank you sir! | |||
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