416Tanzan,
Thanks for reminding me of that video, from Saeed's 2010 Expedition to Tanzania, which I was fortunate to accompany.
This frame says it all,
.510-caliber/450-grain GSC HV at 2654 fps MV, hitting buffalo at about 75-80 yards, one shot kill, through the heart:



Copper GSC HV 450-grain/.510-caliber: SD = 0.247 ... 500 Mbogo with 25" barrel, 105 grains Benchmark + filler >>> 2654 fps
Copper CEB MTH 430-grain/.500-caliber: SD = 0.246 ... 12.7x68mm Magnum/49-10 with 24" barrel, 100 grains H322 + no filler >>> 2651 fps

Both at about 2650 fps MV ought to get the job done comfortably on buffalo.

Then there is that Plastic-Tipped-BRASS CEB ESP RAPTOR 350-360-grain/.500-cal at possibly 2900 fps:
Hexploding into a deathstar internally and leaving a +300-grain penetrator.
Eland succumbed readily to one, for Maharishi McCourry.
Maybe buffalo would too?
Terry Wee-wee-land ought to have tried some before he wrote about them in HANDLOADER June 2012, eh?

Promising start on the Accurate 5744 loads with 500-grain Hornady plinker,
and a comparison dummy-up of that bullet and the 350-grain CEB ESP RAPTOR W350:





The rifle range was so full of local yokel AK and AR rifles that I begged to use the 25-yard pistol range to chronograph the 500-grain Hornady starting loads this afternoon.
Limited time, so I popped off 6 shots and got the heck out of there before the sun lowered.
Temperature was 85 degrees F.
No muzzle brake, very comfortable shooting.


3 shots with 65.0 grains (0.251") and 3 shots with 66.0 grains (0.088") at 25 yards, using A-5744, to establish a starting point, with Hornady 500-grainers.

Since range was so close, I shall not gratuitously post target pics of 3-shot, one-hole groups at 25 yards.
However we might discuss the much lower velocity obtained than predicted by QuickLOAD.

QuickLOAD prediction, actual 3-shot average recorded in red:

500-grain Hornady JFP/JSP bullet
Accurate 5744 powder (REDUCED LOAD, NO FILLER)
Lapua brass
GM215M primer

65.0 grains ... 2163 fps ... 45,402 psi ... 72% filling >>> 1954.7 fps, ES 12 fps

66.0 grains ... 2186 fps ... 47,034 psi ... 73% filling >>> 1991.7 fps, ES 2 fps



I am very happy that the A-5744 is so uniform, with low extreme spread of velocities for small sample admittedly, but promising!

Assume a linear progression for velocity versus charge:

Y = MV in fps
X = increment of powder charge above 65.0 grains
a = 37 fps/grain
b = 1955 fps
Therefore:

Y = aX + b

2150 fps = 37X + 1955
X = (2150-1955)/37
X = 5.3 grains

Powder charge for 2150 fps MV = 65 + 5.3 = 70.3 grains of A-5744.

I did not have time to do the 350-grain CEB bullets.
That's next.
Expect about 2900 fps with those.

The 500-grain Hornady Plinkers should be a lot of fun.
Accurate, uniform ballistics so far.

Though I seat the CEB bullets with only one band in the neck,
they have a death crimp and sit on top of a 100% or greater (compressed) charge of powder.
It works.
My magazine boxes are 3.620" and 3.800".
Of course the 350-grainers could be seated shorter:
COL about 3.349" if only one band shows above the neck,
COL about 3.599" if 3 bands show above the neck, and if I trimmed the brass to 2.647" instead of 2.650", which is my current habit.

Max brass: 2.657"
Trim to minimum: 2.647"

Thank you, RIP, for this work. Naturally, I am assuming that most of this will transfer to its cousin cartridge, the 500AccR.

A note on the 350 Tipped-CEB "Raptor":
A-5744 is noted for being a bulky powder for reduced loads, which explains your 'full-compressed' charge even with three bands sticking out of the case. For those who will be seating the bullet deeper, say 3.4" OAL, a desner powder ought to work well and produce maximum velocities. I'm thinking H335, H4895, and maybe even IMR 8208.

Hodgdon claims that their H-4895 is safe in reduced loads, so that it is not essential to have a full case for even ignnition and avoidance of detonation. (I think they claim 60% of a full-power listing to be safe with H-4895. But better re-read their sheet on reduced loads or contact them before trying this.)

416Tanzan,
Try Accurate-5744. You'll like it.

This first SWAG with Accurate-5744 seems to point to about 77 to 79 percent fill of net case volume to get about 2150 fps.
With the Hornady 500-grainer seated on the crimping cannelure, that is 70.0 to 71.3 grains.
70.0 grains is a 77% fill according to QuickLOAD, and gives pressure of 53,943 psi and 2276 fps.
Of course I now know that the pressure and velocity both need to be verified by testing.

I do not plan to use fillers nor "reduced" loads with/without fillers using H4198.

A-5744 seems to be very reliable (SWAG) in the 70-80% fill range with no filler.

That CEB W350 will sit on top of a +100% charge of H322 and up to 100% charge of H4198.
I have no desire to try reduced loads with that one,
going for 2900 fps in a 24" barrel.

quote:

That CEB W350 will sit on top of a +100% charge of H322 and up to 100% charge of H4198.
I have no desire to try reduced loads with that one,
going for 2900 fps in a 24" barrel. tu2

2900 fps in a 24" barrel sounds like a very reasonable load, and without foreseeable pressure problems.

You won't be surprised that I am looking forward to 2850 fps in a 22" barrel with the Tipped CEB 372 grainer, soon to be.

To be sighted in 1.9"/100 and -8.5 inches low at 300yards. The 6711 muzzle energy will drop to 3448 at 300 yards, stille maintaining an explosive 2043 fps.

Or maybe I'll find 2900fps about right, too, even in 22 inches. We'll see.

416Tanzan,
Get your max loads worked out for the 500 AccRel with the CEB ESP Raptor, and I will use them as a start in the 500 Mbogo.
I might get 3100 fps with the 500 Mbogo.

I have a 1:9" twist 23"-long barrel and a 1:10" twist 25-inch long barrel in 500 Mbogo.
Surely one of those will git-R-done-right.
The 500 Mbogo rifles weigh no more than a .416 Rigby from CZ in standard configuration, and one of them has a Vais Brake.

Gotta finish up the 12.7x68mm Magnum Tornado/49-10 ... then more 500 Mbogo.

Any of these "Fifties" will be more than enough for any game.

Too many tools, not enough range time ...

RIP,

Keep up the good work and I'll have very little tuning to do when my 12.7x68 MT is in hand ready to shoot! LOL...

Thanks,

Another interesting plinker is the Hornady .500-cal/300-grain FTX.
Bullet length is .939".
COL is 3.250".
2600 to 3200 fps?
Could duplicate and possibly exceed recoil or KE of either 375 H&H or 378 WBY.



This lightweight might be what is required to bring out the best of H4198 and Accurate 5744.
Will sample it with both.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Another interesting plinker is the Hornady .500-cal/300-grain FTX.
Bullet length is .939".
COL is 3.250".
2600 to 3200 fps?
Could duplicate and possibly exceed recoil or KE of either 375 H&H or 378 WBY.



This lightweight might be what is required to bring out the best of H4198 and Accurate 5744.
Will sample it with both.

RIP

Not a bad little bullet either! As I recall I have done terminals on it up to around 2400 fps, and it held together--it really should not have, but did. But I think that is about max for it in that arena. It makes for an excellent 50 B&M Super Short bullet, for general purpose, cheaper shooting. Super Short starts it out at 2400+, not bad for a tiny cartridge, 16 inch tube! I don't recall what it does in the 50--and never put it in a 500. But you could be well past 3000 with ease in that big case of yours. I am going have to drag a 500 out and play with some H-4198 in it as well!

M

Hey Maharishi McCourry,
Your excellent results with H4198 and the 295-grain CEB .458 NonCon/.458 B&M have inspired further efforts here with H4198 in the 49-10.

I am shaking out the 350-grain CEB ESP-W350 with H4198 and H322 next,
and will be trying H4198 and Accurate-5744 with the 300-grain FTX
and bumping up the A-5744 with the 500-grain JSP Hornady at next outing.
Thanks.

RIP
H-4198 is THE powder for the 50 B&M, large and smaller BBW#13s. It can take the 500 gr BBW#13 Solid to a good 2150 fps in the 50, and the new 450 BBW#13 NonCon to 2270 or so and stay under pressures.

And now of course some new work in the 458 B&M and next the 475. But I think it would also do well in the 500 MDM with the lighter bullets, as what you may be looking as as well. I used RL7-98 grs of it in the 500 MDM and the 350 Raptor, which gave me 2750 fps in that rifle with the 19 inch barrel that I used. Working on so many other things right now, the 500 MDM is on the back burner for awhile.

Andrew and I took the entire last afternoon to work on a load for him with Somchem Powders in the 500 MDM. He had picked up a box of PMP Rifle Primers. I had taken a box of 500 BBW#13 Solids with for this little mission of ours. What should have turned out to take only a short time to do, ended up taking all afternoon. We had a # of Somchem 341, and the PMP primers. I picked a load of 92 grs to start things off. Only doing one load at a time. I was not so sure of this 341 powder, it was ball, and the 500 MDM traditionally does not really like ball powders at all. Sometimes well under the pressure curve the brass still gets scratchy on opening with ball powder, for some reason still unknown to me. Just a thing I suppose. Anyway, Andrew loaded his first round of 500 MDM--set up to shoot--Click-No Bang? OK, try again, CLICK again, no bang. OK--what now? Rifle has been shooting fine, zero issues with my loads? Primers? Had to be? We messed with this for a couple of hours, these primers would just not go bang, and the 500 put very little indentation in them. They must be hard as hell. Not having any Federals with me of course, I pulled a couple of the Raptors, resized, carefully putting the Fed 215 back in place, 92/S-341. Bang--zero problem! Bolt opened easy, Andrew hit the target. No chrono, so had no idea what the velocity was, but the brass worked so easy we did the same thing and took it to 94/S-341.

Now this time, Andrews man and tracker, Elephass (not sure of the spelling here) was working with us on this project, extremely sharp fellow and good fun to boot. Andrew decided to let Elephass shoot this 94 gr load. He wrapped up in the sling proper, stood right there on his hind legs and turned it loose, hitting the 50 yard target perfectly. Recoil looked a little brisk, but never know sometimes, but Elephass had a big smile on his face. Brass just flopped out easy, not scratchy, nothing.

Now something else to mention--as you know I use Leupold QRWs exclusively, every rifle I own is set up with them and have used them for years. We had taken the 1x4 Nikon off earlier that morning, Andrew showed the rifle to a friend of his, and wanted to show him how well it handled without the scope. We had finished hunting anyway, so no big deal. But when we decided to do this bit of loading, we just put the scope right back on and shot. Not bad--right back at least close enough to hit what we needed to at 50 yards!

OK, now I decide we must go to 96 grs. So back to the bench, loaded up one round with 96. Andrews dog had tore down the target at 50 to retrieve it for us to look at, so back on the range there was no target. We let Elephass shoot again. There was an old concrete well at 100 yards down range. About 2 ft tall, say a bit over 2 in diameter, and 4-5 inches thick concrete. Round, with a top. Andrew told Elephass to shoot that old well. Elephass wrapped up in the sling again, good form. I figured he was going to snatch it so hard that the bullet would hit 50 yards in front of the concrete bunker to be honest. Elephass slinged up good and tight, took the shot, and the damned concrete exploded on impact--concrete dust hung in the air so thick the entire thing disappeared! Now we were all impressed with Elephass and his shooting abilities! Brass just flopped out of the rifle easy as can be, zero issues at 96 grs. Now Quickload says that should have been close to 2300 fps, but I don't exactly know that, but that bullet busted the hell out of the entire front of the concrete, went on dead straight through to the other side, but lacked enough to bust out. We found the bullet laying inside on the ground. 96 Somchem and the 500 BBW#13 Worked pretty good, seemed to be spot on even at a hundred. I think Andrew can go to 98 without issue, and maybe more. I will leave that now to him. Working up loads, even in the bush! HEH...............

Just thought it was a good little story is all!

Michael

Doc M,

Field Handloading in RSA, eh?
I wonder if Terry Wee-wee-land has ever done that? I guess not, or he would have written an entire book about it.
That's about the way it is in KY, similarly removed from the laboratory-controlled standard conditions and technology of MIB.
I will try working up to QuickLOAD predictions of 63,000 psi, and thereby hopefully stay below actual pressures of 68,000 psi.


I have sized and primed 140 cases, and they are all still about 2.650" in length, no trimming needed (max length 2.657").

So will stuff them with:

A-5744 + 300-gr and 500-gr Hornady plinkers
H4198-X + 300-gr Hornady and 350-grain CEB
H322-X + 350-gr CEB

There has got to be an H4198-X pony in there, somewhere!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

RIP
Yep, doing a little bit of "Bush Loading" you might say. Worked out pretty well with the exception of having to pull bullets out with a set of vise grips just so I could have a primer that would go bang. But we seemed to get something worked out.

68000 PSI won't hurt you. I have shot loads way over that! But not too many times either! LOL..

Your rifle will tell you when you get there! Mine talk to me you know. They normally concur with the pressure trace as well. Start bumping 70000 PSI and they let you know.

M

Here are the loads ready to be fired, QuickLOAD predictions,
so I can copy them and add on, in red, the recorded 3-shot average of velocity and ES for each:

Plinking loads:



ACCURATE 5744
500-grain Hornady JFP/JSP, 3.135" COL
70.0 gr ... 77% fill ... 2276 fps ... 53,943 psi >>>
73.0 gr ... 81% fill ... 2346 fps ... 60,689 psi >>>
300-grain Hornady FTX, 3.250" COL
77.0 gr ... 78% fill ... 2812 fps ... 43,870 psi >>>
88.0 gr ... 89% fill ... 3118 fps ... 61,591 psi >>>

H4198-X
300-grain Hornady FTX, 3.250" COL
96.0 gr ... 97% fill ... 2990 fps ... 54,924 psi >>>
97.0 gr ... 98% fill ... 3018 fps ... 56,625 psi >>>
98.0 gr ... 99% fill ... 3044 fps ... 58,309 psi >>>
99.0 gr ... 100% fill ... 3071 fps ... 60,080 psi >>>
100.0 gr ... 101% fill ... 3097 fps ... 61,905 psi >>>

Serious Loads:



H4198-X
350-grain CEB W350 ESP, 3.240" COL, no tip added
92.0 gr ... 98% fill ... 2806 fps ... 56,195 psi >>>
93.0 gr ... 99% fill ... 2833 fps ... 58,097 psi >>>
94.0 gr ... 100% fill ... 2859 fps ... 60,061 psi >>>
95.0 gr ... 101% fill ... 2886 fps ... 62,171 psi >>>

H322-X
350-grain CEB W350 ESP, 3.240" COL, no tip added
97.0 gr ... 100% fill ... 2745 fps ... 44,799 psi >>>
98.0 gr ... 101% fill ... 2772 fps ... 46,7369 psi >>>
99.0 gr ... 102% fill ... 2800 fps ... 48,024 psi >>>
100.0 gr ... 103% fill ... 2828 fps ... 49,739 psi >>>
101.0 gr ... 104% fill ... 2855 fps ... 51,480 psi >>>
102.0 gr ... 105% fill ... 2884 fps ... 53,359 psi >>>
103.0 gr ... 106% fill ... 2910 fps ... 55,195 psi >>>
104.0 gr ... 107% fill ... 2939 fps ... 57,258 psi >>>

Tapping the case a few seconds on the bench top allows H322-X powder to settle into case to much less than QuickLOAD % fill prediction.
No problems with powder compression and seating bullet to desired COL.

Muzzles of the rifles, right one has been fouled by 6 rounds of plinkers already, left one is clean,
both barrels are of exactly same PAC-NOR specs, 24" length, 1:12" twist, 8-groove, No.6 sporter contour, stainless "Super Match":




Dummies of 7 test bullets: I think I am getting close to deciding on preferred loads.

Yesterday, 82 degrees F and about 100% humidity after the rains passed, I hurriedly set up the chrono and think I got it too close.
Too many errors in the first few shots, I backed the chronograph off from only 12 feet from the muzzle to the usual 15 feet, oops.

ACCURATE 5744

500-grain Hornady JFP/JSP, 3.135" COL
70.0 gr ... 77% fill ... 2276 fps ... 53,943 psi >>> 2072 fps for 1 shot, two errors
73.0 gr ... 81% fill ... 2346 fps ... 60,689 psi >>> 2139 fps, duplicated for 2 shots, 1 error: moved chronograph out another yard

300-grain Hornady FTX, 3.250" COL
77.0 gr ... 78% fill ... 2812 fps ... 43,870 psi >>> 2483.7 fps, ES 28 fps
88.0 gr ... 89% fill ... 3118 fps ... 61,591 psi >>> 2863.3 fps, ES 58 fps

Accuracy for all the above plinkers was 1.25" to 2.25" for 3 shots at 50 yards.
A-5744 and plinkers worked better at squib load levels in my rifle, apparently,
and QuickLOAD is way off on predicted versus actual velocity, whether it is a 72% or 89% fill.
I used rifle No.2 (BRNO) with muzzle brake for the above,
as previously it was a 25-yard bugholer with
500-grain Hornady and 66.0 grains of A-5744, a 73% fill, for 1992 fps with 2 fps ES for 3 shots: Good plinker load.

After the above, I decided to alternate rifles to allow some cooling time for each.
Rifle No.1 (WinM70) without brake (8X Leupold scope) was used for odd-numbered powder charges.
Rifle No.2 (BRNO) with brake (5X Leupold scope) was used for even-numbered charges.
At only 50 yards, that is plenty of scope.

H4198-X

300-grain Hornady FTX, 3.250" COL
96.0 gr ... 97% fill ... 2990 fps ... 54,924 psi >>> Eliminated for Rifle No.2 cooling.
97.0 gr ... 98% fill ... 3018 fps ... 56,625 psi >>> 3004.0 fps, ES 52 fps Rifle No.1: 0.818"
98.0 gr ... 99% fill ... 3044 fps ... 58,309 psi >>> 3023.7 fps, ES 23 fps Rifle No.2: 0.866"
99.0 gr ... 100% fill ... 3071 fps ... 60,080 psi >>> 3033.7 fps, ES 5 fps Rifle No.1: 0.979"
100.0 gr ... 101% fill ... 3097 fps ... 61,905 psi >>> 3052.0 fps, ES 12 fps Rifle No.2: 0.613", for 3 shots at 50 yards, a good varmint load.

I was on a roll then, alternating rifles after each three shots for cooling, chronograph seemed reliable.
To be continued below with the most interesting 350-grainer from CEB, using H4198-X and H322-X:

H4198-X

350-grain CEB W350 ESP, 3.240" COL, no tip added

92.0 gr ... 98% fill ... 2806 fps ... 56,195 psi >>> 2849.0 fps, ES 95 fps Rifle No.1: 1.228", 2 touching and 1 shot way off on velocity spread
93.0 gr ... 99% fill ... 2833 fps ... 58,097 psi >>> 2854..7 fps, ES 22 fps Rifle No.2: no group, scope re-zored, with adjustment after each shot
94.0 gr ... 100% fill ... 2859 fps ... 60,061 psi >>> 2878.0 fps, ES 3 fps Rifle No.1: 0.797"
95.0 gr ... 101% fill ... 2886 fps ... 62,171 psi >>> 2904.7 fps, ES 11 fps Rifle No.2: 0.489": Best load with H4198-X.




With such a light bullet, H4198 seems to work best at full-case or mildly compressed load.
Rifle No.1 with even charges and rifle No.2 with odd charges above, and vice versa below.
Both rifles about same speed with H4198-X.
Rifle No.2 was about 20 fps faster with H322-X below.
Barrel specs are same, add-on brake of No.2 rifle is only difference:

H322-X

350-grain CEB W350 ESP, 3.240" COL, no tip added

97.0 gr ... 100% fill ... 2745 fps ... 44,799 psi >>> 2747.0 fps, 1 error, 2 fps spread for 2 shots Rifle No.1: 0.940"
98.0 gr ... 101% fill ... 2772 fps ... 46,7369 psi >>> 2810.0 fps, ES 9 fps Rifle No.2: 0.552"
99.0 gr ... 102% fill ... 2800 fps ... 48,024 psi >>> 2815.7 fps, ES 9 fps Rifle No.1: 0.879"
100.0 gr ... 103% fill ... 2828 fps ... 49,739 psi >>> 2855.0 fps, ES 4 fps Rifle No.2: 0.625"
101.0 gr ... 104% fill ... 2855 fps ... 51,480 psi >>> 2864 fps, ES 33 fps Rifle No.1: 0.920"
102.0 gr ... 105% fill ... 2884 fps ... 53,359 psi >>> 2885.7 fps, ES 25 fps Rifle No.2: 1.044"
103.0 gr ... 106% fill ... 2910 fps ... 55,195 psi >>> 2879.7 fps, ES 7 fps Rifle No.1: 1.418"
104.0 gr ... 107% fill ... 2939 fps ... 57,258 psi >>> 2911.7 fps, ES 7 fps Rifle No.2: 1.073"





Maybe not my best benchrest work.
Maybe I was getting flinchy near the end of this 60 rounds in 2 hours.
But I am happy to say, I think I have settled on H4198-X for the sub-400-grain bullets.
I will load some with the tips now and try them at 100 yards, 360-grain CEB W350 ESP Raptors at about 2900 fps.

Very nice work RIP!

I know this is the big bore forum, but it seems all CEB discussion is here. There has been some discussion re 130 gr CEB in .308. Has anybody had any field experience with these? I am thinking of mule deer this fall in Alberta.

quote:

Originally posted by brent ebeling:
I know this is the big bore forum, but it seems all CEB discussion is here. There has been some discussion re 130 gr CEB in .308. Has anybody had any field experience with these? I am thinking of mule deer this fall in Alberta.

Brent you might also want to check out the Terminal Bullet Performance thread...the last 20 or so pages (I think) and you may run into Michael's lab work with the 130gr Raptor. I've not used it as yet - the 130gr Raptors - but I have some for use in my 300 RSAUM...It should work just fine for mule deer.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Brent you might also want to check out the Terminal Bullet Performance thread ...

Jim,
Thanks for paying attention!
And for traffic-policing this thread!
I am thinking of switching to a Schmidt & Bender 16X scope with 34mm tube in a CZ rail mount with 4 rings for the 100-yard accuracy test.
Keeping the muzzle brake on and increasing the rifle weight to 14 pounds with scope and mounts ...
... might improve my accuracy with the RAPTOR tips installed.

Then there is this new plinker bullet from Barnes: .500-cal/375-grain "XPB Cannelured."
It might do well with H4198 100% fill load also.
It is a pointy hollowpoint, and the solid copper remnant left over after it opens up at speed might be stout enough for actual use on larger varmints.

Picture of rifle with S&B P&M Mildot 4X-16X scope and a couple of dummies of loads to be tested next seems to be indicated.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
....
I am thinking of switching to a Schmidt & Bender 16X scope with 34mm tube in a CZ rail mount with 4 rings for the 100-yard accuracy test.
Keeping the muzzle brake on and increasing the rifle weight to 14 pounds with scope and mounts ...
... might improve my accuracy with the RAPTOR tips installed.

Yep accuracy really sucks with the Raptors in your two rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
....
I am thinking of switching to a Schmidt & Bender 16X scope with 34mm tube in a CZ rail mount with 4 rings for the 100-yard accuracy test.
Keeping the muzzle brake on and increasing the rifle weight to 14 pounds with scope and mounts ...
... might improve my accuracy with the RAPTOR tips installed.

Yep accuracy really sucks with the Raptors in your two rifles.

Oh yeah! We'll see.
Starting with 9-pound-4-ounce bare-naked/dry-weight rifle (with 1.5X-5X Leupold scope removed):
Added a 2-pound-2-ounce scope and a pound of rings (4 of the PRI standard steel 34mm rings) plus the CZ rail base, a slip-on pad, and the muzzle brake: 13-pounds-4 ounces
4 rounds of ammo adds a half pound more: 13.75 pounds.
A 4-ounce sling added to that: 14 pounds field ready!!!

This is an experiment in keeping a heavy scope on a kicker!!!
I put silicone adhesive inside rings, will clean it up with a toothpick after it hardens and excess can be peeled off.
I could JB Weld the rail base to the receiver, but will hold off on that, for now.
All the screws and nuts will be checked frequently to be sure they stay tight.





Comparison of scope size and nose-bleed height to a low mounted Leupold 2.5X-8X: The ultimate hunting scope.



The 375-gr Barnes FXB Cannelured that might work as a game bullet at high speed, next to the CEB 360-grain Raptor:





I do not recall whether Doc M of MIB has done the Barnes .500/375-grainer "terminals" ... ???

I did terminals back in 2006 and sometimes afterwards on the 375 Barnes. The 50 B&M and sometimes the 50 Super Short don't care for the Barnes too much. While they shoot it well, it sometimes leaves a copper ring that shears off in the chamber. After a few rounds, and several rings, it becomes difficult, if not impossible to chamber a round. This seems to only occur at higher than 2100 fps. I think indicative to my cartridges. I never bothered with it in the 500 MDM--since I had the 375 gr North Forks for that.

Did shoot a wildebeast with the 375 Barnes in 2006 in the first prototype 50 B&M. I forget the velocity, but it gave perfect expansion, and 32 inches of penetration. Killed the wildebeast as well! HEH......... At the velocity you are running, I am sure the petals would shear. And, remember, when copper shears it is not all at the same time, and dispersed along the wound channel. Still a lot of destruction, and penetration of course increases as well.

M

Plumb weird!
Another plinker problem!
That would be some really bad copper fouling!

All I can say is, "That's one butt ugly setup!"

I like ugly rifles as long as they are reliable shooters.
10-pound Hunting-ugly works well, have yet to try the experimental 14-pound Tactical-ugly.

I just checked the screws again, they have not worked loose yet.
Though a shot has not been fired yet from Tactical-ugly,
micro-variations in gravitational fields, super-moon tidal pull, etc., may stress the mounts with such a heavy scope.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I like ugly rifles as long as they are reliable shooters.
10-pound Hunting-ugly works well, have yet to try the experimental 14-pound Tactical-ugly.

Yes but there's ugly and there's ugly...that one's back of the truck ugly!

Hey, Jim, I know you are just jealous, since you protest too much, about this shop mule of mine, but pretty is as pretty does.
This old ugly BRNO has metamorphosed from .375 H&H to .378 Wby to 500 A2 and finally 49-10.
She has learned some tricks along the way, me too.
Ugly girls can be fun too,
especially in the back of the truck.
Back of the truck ugly! Yep, I like that too, as long as she is functional and accurate.
Big scope, is just like a new hair-do, easily fixed. The rest is just cosmetics.

All is good.

Jim
RIP has a reputation to uphold as well--the man with the most ugly rifles wins! RIP--Winner!

HEH HEH...............

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim
RIP has a reputation to uphold as well--the man with the most ugly rifles wins! RIP--Winner!

HEH HEH...............

M

Doc M,
Thanks! That concession, coming from a man with as many short-barreled rifles as you have, means a lot to me.
I might have to change my handle to KUR, for "King Ugly Rifle."
As Elvis, another "king" would say, if speaking in Afrikaans: Donkey, buy a donkey.

I have come to prefer clean barrels, with no hardware cluttering them,
but I still like a sling/carry strap,
and QD scope mounts for easy switch to backup scope, only in case of catastrophe.
Small bore, medium bore, big bore, all the same to me: Ugly Rifles

All the barrel clutter, wood, and "beauty marks" I can enjoy on antiques of "non-business importance."

Yep, my rifle tastes are about as ugly as Larry The Cable Guy's potty-mouth humor.
Still get's the desired results.

"Git-R-Done"



Rip, aka Kur

New 34mm-tubed scope from Leupold, only 23.2 ounces, will shave 11 ounces off the ugly scope weight:



The Leupold Mark 8 CQBSS Rifle Scope combines just about everything tactical operators might need into one tactical rifle scope. With its astounding 1.1-8x magnification range, the Mark 8 allows for a wide field of view and precision. The illuminated front focal plane reticle is true at all magnification settings providing the crucial blend of precision and rapid acquisition required by professionals. The unique Pinch & Turn turrets are easy to adjust and they eliminate accidental adjustments in the field. The AA53 (77 grain 5.56 NATO) BDC dial makes first round hits a simple reality, while the quick change BDC ring effortlessly adapts to alternate loads. The Leupold Mark 8 also features a 34mm maintube which allows for incomparable windage and elevation adjustment travel, and the ability to bypass the zero-stop in the BDC dial makes zeroing a breeze. Eight illumination settings provide optimal reticle contrast with or without night vision, and an off position between intensity settings makes returning to the perfect illumination level nearly immediate. Absolutely waterproof and fog proof, the Mark 8 CQBSS completely eliminates compromise. Included with the scope are a CR2032 battery, aluminum flip-up lens covers and a 2.5" sunshade. The Leupold Mark 8 is covered by the Leupold Full Lifetime Guarantee.

Technical Information

Tube Diameter: 34mm
Adjustment Click Value: 1/10 MIL
Adjustment Type: Click
Exposed Turrets: Yes
Finger Adjustable Turrets: Yes
Turrets Resettable to Zero: Yes
Zero Stop: Yes
Turret Height: Medium
Fast Focus Eyepiece: Yes
Lens Coating: Fully multi-coated with DiamondCoat
Warranty: Lifetime factory warranty
Rings Included: No
Sunshade Included: Yes
Sunshade Length: 2.5"
Lens Covers Included: Yes, flip-up aluminum
Power Variability: Variable
Min power: 1.1x
Max power: 8x
Reticle Construction: Glass-etched
Reticle: M-TMR
Illuminated Reticle: Yes
Battery Type: CR2032
Holdover reticle: No
Reticle Focal Plane Location: 1st
Parallax Adjustment: No
Finish: Matte
Water/Fogproof: Yes
Shockproof: Yes
Airgun Rated: No
Objective Bell Diameter: Not listed by Leupold
Ocular Bell Diameter: Not listed by Leupold
Eye Relief: 3.7-3.3"
Max Internal Adjustment: 150 MOA
Exit Pupil Diameter: 8-3mm
Weight: 23.2 oz

Then take a half-pound more off by stepping down to 2 rings (Badger, LOW-er) instead of the 4 by PRI.

That will make almost 1.25 pound difference in the weight acting to shear off the CZ rail from the action at recoil,
(free-recoil velocity) x (scope&mounts-weight) = shearing momentum ...

I have everything I need here except the new scope.
New Leupold scope price is ... $2,999.99, on back order ...

Maybe I will just JB Weld the "parts" I have on hand here.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim
RIP has a reputation to uphold as well--the man with the most ugly rifles wins! RIP--Winner!

HEH HEH...............

M

Doc M,
Thanks! That concession, coming from a man with as many short-barreled rifles as you have, means a lot to me.
I might have to change my handle to KUR, for "King Ugly Rifle."
As Elvis, another "king" would say, if speaking in Afrikaans: Donkey, buy a donkey.

I have come to prefer clean barrels, with no hardware cluttering them,
but I still like a sling/carry strap,
and QD scope mounts for easy switch to backup scope, only in case of catastrophe.
Small bore, medium bore, big bore, all the same to me: Ugly Rifles

All the barrel clutter, wood, and "beauty marks" I can enjoy on antiques of "non-business importance."

Yep, my rifle tastes are about as ugly as Larry The Cable Guy's potty-mouth humor.
Still get's the desired results.

"Git-R-Done"



Rip, aka Kur

RIP--You Da KING!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim
RIP has a reputation to uphold as well--the man with the most ugly rifles wins! RIP--Winner!

HEH HEH...............

M

Doc M,
Thanks! That concession, coming from a man with as many short-barreled rifles as you have, means a lot to me.
I might have to change my handle to KUR, for "King Ugly Rifle."
As Elvis, another "king" would say, if speaking in Afrikaans: Donkey, buy a donkey.

I have come to prefer clean barrels, with no hardware cluttering them,
but I still like a sling/carry strap,
and QD scope mounts for easy switch to backup scope, only in case of catastrophe.
Small bore, medium bore, big bore, all the same to me: Ugly Rifles

All the barrel clutter, wood, and "beauty marks" I can enjoy on antiques of "non-business importance."

Yep, my rifle tastes are about as ugly as Larry The Cable Guy's potty-mouth humor.
Still get's the desired results.

"Git-R-Done"



Rip, aka Kur

RIP--You Da KING!

+1.

You two, Jim and Michael:
I have a new signature line.
Donkey, buy a donkey.



KUR
one of us

"Thank you, thank you very much."

RIP

I am still envious of the KUR! Still working at it, but seem to just be a little off one side or the other! DAMN!!!!!!! Anyway, the 350 Raptor does indeed shoot far better than I can shoot it, I think sometimes in serious test mode I just shoot too fast!



I shall "Endeavor to Persevere"


M

Nice group Michael...You guys both shoot much better than I.

@michael,RIP,Jim,

those groups look like BBBR......

B ig B ore B ench R est....

A Lot of those Guys shooting 65grs. 6mm Bullets would give a month payment to have a Groupe close to that...

Best
2RECON

BBBR... I like it!

But now the problems set in...how to reconcile the rifle OAL/rifle OAW (Weight)/caliber/case capacity stuff, etc....before we can really compare things properly Or is this one of those "if you can carry it you can use it" kind of things?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
BBBR... I like it!

But now the problems set in...how to reconcile the rifle OAL/rifle OAW (Weight)/caliber/case capacity stuff, etc....before we can really compare things properly Or is this one of those "if you can carry it you can use it" kind of things?

" .....if you can carry it....."
OK, sit down at the Bench, distance 100yards, 5shot Groupe, take a .577" T-Rex and give it a try....
HAVEY GUN CLASS....

Best
2RECON